PlayStation How Is This Game So Bugged? ( Rant ) Mods Please Lock

I would refer you to comments on the posts involving St Michael's mount or St Ives generally... People DO expect distant scenery to a decent level of detail in this sim, and I believe on Bakerloo's above ground sections you can see central London landmarks, so not really 50m on either side

I'm sure we could discuss at length the amount of computational power microsoft put into MSFS on an hourly basis, so that wasn't my point at all.
My point was that in TSW you can walk up to something at 1m distance or drive past at 125mph at the same distance and people would expect a level of fidelity, alongside train physics, accurate warning systems, accurate signalling and signage etc etc
Microsoft haven't put that same level of fidelity into every building (as shown in the screenshot taken from your video) because they don't need to, and of course MS have every square meter of the planet photographed for their mapping tech anyway, DTG don't have that

So as I've said in other posts, this isn't about whether flight sims are complex or not, it's an argument that train sims are not simple or easy to produce

 

Well, I never have argued about this and never will. It´s just that they are cooking with water as well .............. and not as their propaganda want to make you believe: DTG has to cook with kryptonite.

 

I'm sure MSFS has a budget that dwarfs TS.

 

It is broken quite simply because the CEO of DTG is non other than the establisher of Electronic Arts, whom in themselves in the past have had some shady press and are something of a scam company.

 

Not quite... The way that DTG dev is a big part of the problem, even having dev work going on two days before release is just madness

 

Yes quite actually, look at the above two videos and they are basically rip off merchants.

 

Why would I look at any single creator and rely on their opinion?
I am more than capable of forming my own opinion from the seven years I've been dealing with the company including attending their head office and meeting the senior producer in person on a couple of occasions (admittedly in tesco, I live local to their head office)
In other words, those videos are fine for what they are, but I'm sure they're not a balanced and nuanced opinion based on the output of DTG as a whole and likely focus on the negatives of DTG's methodology and output, something we see all the time on these forums and something I try to avoid when forming my own opinions.

 

The person in the videos used to test the TSW games!! So he knows what he is on about.

 

Erm, so what?
People who are supposed experts can voice their opinions but that doesn't mean people should put any more weight on it than their own experience, especially in something as subjective as a games experience.

Also, I'm sure I've seen the SimUK name before as someone who was an ambassador and then went around telling people not to buy anything from DTG and hence got removed from the ambassador list... If that is them then maybe not the best person to listen to

 

You should also check out the last video that he posted about TSW3.
It's strange that he has not posted anything on the matter since, even more so because that last video was still before the launch.
I would love to hear his opinion on the actual game, and the DLCs that have been released after the launch. I wonder if he is maybe under a gag order of some sorts.

 

That kind of confirms they are who I thought
Not a gag that I know of but DTG won't give them content for free and they've said themselves they won't be spending money on DTG content, so if they did so I'd be calling them a hypocrite...

 

There are balanced Youtube reviews, then there are the ones where people are clearly on a ego trip trying to make mountains where molehills once stood.

Thankfully you have kindly come on here to point the truth out to us.....

 

The SimUK video shouldn't fully be ignored in my opinion. As a former beta tester he stated the problems with that area. If he is telling the truth, then he got into hot water for having pointed out issues (perhaps passionately even) which DTG wanted to ignore. Perhaps the current batch of beta testers are a bunch of "yes men" hence why we get such glaring problems in TSW3 and lip service via roadmap streams every few weeks. I know one for sure continues to defend TSW3 as running exactly the same as TSW2 which is factually wrong. Although listening to one person's opinion shouldn't fully influence one's opinion, the more we see with this development house, the more rotten it seems. Feels like a culture of fear... just test what we tell you to test and don't say anything about anything else or you're out. Completely fine if they wish to operate this way, but eventually customers wise up and leave. The whole "keep them monetarily invested" model spoken of as well makes some sense. I mean this is a business. But I could see this being a reason behind not having tools for individuals to create tracks / trains for the sim to keep it closed off to only their inner circle. What if people made freeware stuff that was better than their paid add-ons? Couldn't have that! Anyhow, we've just been accustomed to this model with this hobby, but when they tried to do this with the flight sim community, their FSW project was mocked ridiculously and it failed. Here's hoping that they will change before it's too late.

 

Oh, I didn't. When I watched it a few months back I wondered why he bothered when he wasn't up to date with what was going on THEN let alone now
His opinion was based off of DTG's insistence of chucking out content without fixing things or bringing them up to date after release, something which was rectified when TSW2 came out and Adam's team was established
I'm not "in bed with" DTG but nor will I stop from calling people out when they're clearly not talking sense, and those vids are old enough now that they don't make sense in 2023 and shouldn't be relied upon to form an opinion.

This to me sounds like you haven't been following what DTG actually do when it comes to development.
In the "best course of things" a route releasing today would have been substantially complete in October last year, with all testing and play testing and beta testing having been undertaken through several rounds until everyone's happy.
That's not what DTG do.
We know they employ a self test mechanism, but that doesn't play how a player plays
We know they employ a third party testing company, but we don't know what the questions they're being asked are. I doubt that many are aware that the height of the tunnel portal at Higham is twice that represented in game, or that the bridge next to Gillingham level crossing is not a blue box, but a decades old wrought iron structure with wooden treads... Most likely they don't care either because it's likely they're being asked to see if the trees are the right colour and pop in when they're supposed to, whether the train falls off the rails and so on.
ie it's not whether they ARE testing, but whether they're asking the same questions we do when we notice an issue

On top of this you have to remember that DTG do not stop developing weeks prior to release. From what they say on stream they're still developing two days or less before release (which is why we've had console store issues on release where they upload a placeholder or old version because they haven't compiled the release candidate in time)

Sorry, this has been debunked many times... Look at AP's enhancement packs for TSC or ATS's output. Markedly better than DTGs usual standard (look at Euston on one of their latest releases where the OHLE goes through a bridge...)
Matt has said several times (and I have no reason to disbelieve him) that other people making content brings more people to the game... and if they have the game they might just say "Ooh, a steam train" and that's £25 DTG wouldn't otherwise have
And besides, in TSW DTG hold all the broadcast channels, so anyone selling content gives DTG a percentage whether DTG sell anything other than the base game, so if ATS produce something outstanding, DTG make x% on every sale (and the whole bean on the base game etc)

From what I know, that's not what happened with FSW.
DTG licensed FSW off MS and it was for a fixed period of time. MS revoked their license and then brought out MSFS. It's not like DTG are going to run amok and produce unlicensed content against MS is it?

 

You make some good points and yes I'm just forming an opinion based on my feeling of what I've seen this far since the launch of TSW3. I could be completely wrong, but things just feel shady and lacklustre. I think their roadmap streams would be far more welcoming I they adopted MSFS's style and put some structure to things. i.e. we have prioritized A, B, and C and expect these changes in the next patch or whatever. Yet all we hear for the most part year after year is "hey we have a new route!" and... here's a list of things we are looking at, but we don't know if or when we will ever fix them. Perhaps I'm being too cynical as I've not had a good time with TSW3 at all. Anyhow, good conversation and nice to hear your thoughts from a different perspective.

 

Go back a year and look at some of the streams Sam and Nat had with Matt where they were literally ripping Matt apart because of the issues they were having
Look at the roadmaps back then when it was all about fixes and updates
Unfortunately there was a sizable portion of "the community" who just wanted to know when the next route was coming out and got bored of just seeing fixes

It seems you can't keep everyone happy

Since then DTG have cut back from very regular roadmaps to once a month and of course both Sam and Nat have stopped doing those streams so the questioning is "gentler"

Personally I would happily see one dev roadmap a month and one release roadmap a month, so we get "hey look at our shiny thing!" followed by "This is how we're going to fix the last shiny thing!" but even then DTG have stopped showing off their shiny things until a week before release (or less) which gives people much less time to rip it to shreds before it's out there

 

Have never watched or read any reviews for anything gaming related, if I like it and I want it I buy it, it's that simple, nobody on this planet will ever have a completely neutral opinion, and their verdict will always be biased to their side of the scale no matter how big or small, my way has never failed me yet lol.

 

Well you are exactly correct on that point. Opinion is subjective to yourself and your point of view. A showstopper for one person could be a minor or non-existent issue for another. I guess it all comes down to majority rule when it comes to things that would be higher priority in terms of game fixes (as well as ease to fix). I don't recall if the recent survey asked about ranking current issues for TSW3 or problems that each responder sees. That may have generated some data on what players see as the biggest issues and could help to prioritize resources on future patches.

 

I'm sure there are many bugs.
The price has gone up quite a bit.
Check for bugs before launch.
Don't betray the expectations and enjoyment of your users.
・It can be seen on most lines that the passengers at the station are stuck together.
・Many routes where the destination of the train is not displayed
・ A railroad crossing that is not in a certain place
・The speed display is mixed with MPH and KM
・The through door at the end of the train is left open
・City-wide blackout

 

couldn't have said it better.

You shouldn't but to form a balanced view you should look at both sides of he argument. Taking the 'word' of DTG as gospel when they are out to take your money isn't balanced in my view. Looking at that first video he made some good points tbf even the ex EA man, Sam, seemed to be annoyed as well. Would be interesting to know if you believe Matt or Sam on that one? He also made good points on Matt and Sam themselves.

As his second video on TSW3 I shouldn't comment really as I still haven't got it yet. I think I am still annoyed with DTG over that as they originally promised to fix TSW2 only to release TSW3. Then DTG said TSW3 and TW2 run on the same engine so there was no reason for TSW3 just update TSW2. Even 'lightning' was developed by a third party for the last IOW route but were told not to put it in, the excuse they gave was it might be 'triggering' for people and they had no way of turning it off! Really?

 

This would also be "relying on a single content creator"...

Of course he made good points, but what he didn't do is critique HIMSELF other than to repeat "I haven't played the game in a while" which kind of invalidates some of his points
I've been on these forums for a number of years now (starting with TSC) and I believe that things have improved in several respects including the preserved team, regular updates and patches, timetable updates etc
They've also NOT improved in that communication has backslid, Matt seems less involved in the actual production of the game itself (ie a lot of questions on the streams are met with "I'll have to ask" or "I'll look into" when in the past he was more involved so knew the answers more often), the testing has gone two steps forward (the game runs better generally than it did) and two steps back (stuff's still being released broken) and of course anything new they bring out still breaks old stuff, and they still dev themselves into a corner

But at least they've stopped making wild assumptions on streams and having people argue for five years over when the editor's coming out, so that's a thing

I'm sure any answer given to this wouldn't satisfy you as to the reason why TSW3 on a technical level had to happen rather than an update to TSW2, so let's leave it as "TSW3 is more like TSW2.5 but with money involved" and leave it at that
Personally I was happy to pay what I consider a fairly minimal amount for TSW3 (compared to some titles you see on PS4 let alone PS5 where the most dire rubbish can cost £50 or more and never get's added to) and given I only get UK content I wasn't bothered by the routes which came out but am looking forward to Rivet's route on Thursday, so again there's good an bad on both sides of that one

 

I think we are on the same page well almost. I don't think TSW3 needed to come out especially when we were promised that TSW2 was going to be fixed. Which I think it will never be now or certainly not to the level it would of been if TSW2 would of been the main game. Whether it is TSW3 or 2.5 as you suggested doesn't really matter to me it just would of been nice to be told the truth for a change but never mind eh? But as they keep ramming down our throats 'if you don't like it don't buy it' and so I won't buy it, i'll wait for TSW4.

 

The answer to that will only be apparent if ever TSW3 is able to move beyond what TSW2 could have been, and at this point I don't think that's the case, but nor do I think that you would get what you say is the issue in that fixes were to be issued.
Fixes have been issued but obviously not the ones you're looking for

DTG telling the truth would also be problematic. If they said "Hey were going to fix all the issues" that would mean not releasing any content, which would have people up in arms. They release new content and people like yourself are up in arms. So they can't really win on that point

Personally I don't get too many problems in the game. I haven't had a red light issue in months, all the scenarios and timetables I've played have worked out with few issues so "it don't affect me much", but I know there are people for whom there are serious issues caused by a mix of DTG's way of working and either platform or OS issues such as the DLC limit on PS and jackhammer on XB

 

I'm surprised TSW3 runs so well for you. I mean the stuttering / micro pausing issue seems to be affecting all platforms. One of the top review comments on Steam mentions it. Do you have a really powerful PC to brute force through the issue? If so, then perhaps when I build a top notch gaming PC I will look into TSW3 again as any console certainly isn't the place for this game.

The only other game that I've tried on the Series X that can make it feel like a 7 year old PC trying to run a modern game is Farm Sim 22 with a very detailed mod map where the FPS will drop from 60 to maybe 30 or sometimes less in certain spots. But nothing like I've seen with such consistency as I have with TSW3.

 

I am so used to it happening on these games that I don't even see it as an issue any more, simply part of the game
I know for some they want absolute clarity and absolute consistency, I am more pragmatic than that, for example I could rip apart just about any game for inconsistencies and issues simply because they all have them (and I mean all of them)

My PC spec isn't spectacular, for instance I'm running a 3 year old RX580 8Gb GPU running at 400Mhz that gives output in the 45-60fps range at HD on ultra settings on a HannsG 27" monitor.
That's fine for me because I really don't see much difference between that and a 4k monitor at my age
CPU is core i5-12600KF 16 core @ 3.7GHz with 32Gb DDR4 Corsair RAM, so hardly a brute force PC by any means
Literally today updated my windows drive to a WD black SN770 1Tb SSD from a HDD. The game is on it's own SN770 1Tb (well, that's where my steam library is)

 

I think the trouble is people have chosen to make TSW2 the hill they are willing to die on, it's those fixes or nothing, not saying it's wrong and totally their choice, but the war has moved past TSW2, slowly marching forward with new ideas and features, and I guess at some point they will have to realise and accept that, but they probably won't.........

 

People don't like paying for the same product again every few years? What a surprise!

 

Windows
Office
Any mobile phone
Cars

People have been paying again for the same thing for years
The difference is DTG have a direct forum where people can come moan about it

 

I guess DTG just sees customers as piggies at the trough. How many times have we heard from their team "don't like it don't play it". Yes, a true statement, but why would you even say that to potential or actual customers? Imagine you were working at any retail store and somebody made a complaint and the employee responded "go shop somewhere else then". Yeah, management would be upset right? What kind of elitist bubble world these people must live in. *shaking my head*

 

Surely these are the piggies in the trough?
"We know our stuff is rubbish but don't go somewhere else and buy better!"

And from what I've seen DTG have been talking about not buying every DLC that comes along just to have them, rather than the way that's been put

 

I've been in many shops and heard managers tell that to problem people in their shops, I work in the beer delivery business and tell that to don't know how many pubs and clubs every week if you don't want it go elsewhere for your beer, companies aren't there to give you and only you want you want, sometimes you have to accept what you personally wanted didn't happen or didn't get, in this case that's exactly what's happened with TSW2.

 

In the 'I love TSW3' thread on the first page Matt himself says "If you don't like TSW, that's fine, you don't have to play it "
Again, if you worked in any service industry and said that to a customer or potential customer you really wouldn't last long. Regardless if it's true or not.

 

I recall the developers of Battlefield 5 saying that to their potential customers as well. Not a great business decision.

 

People need to forget the customer is always right rubbish, they definitely ain't, and the people boycotting TSW3 or any game, even if their reasons are morally just and a good thing, there are far to many people that are going to buy these games anyway that the boycott won't even dent the profits of the companies in question, that's just a fact that everyone has to accept and move on with life, until the next game they call to boycott........

 

So that directly conflicts with your previous statement of "I guess DTG just sees customers as piggies at the trough"
Surely if DTG just want to fleece people they would push for every sale
And to be honest your description of the service industry (ie sales) is why I abhor sales people with a passion and hate when they try to peddle whatever it is. Most of the time they have little idea what it is they're trying to sell and would be better off learning enough about it to not bother (I deal mainly with IT, stationery and phone sales people and they do have a tendency to be un-knowledgeable)

 

EA FIFA20XX lol, yes people pay for the same thing over and over, this title worked out for decades and still does.

 

Service industry meaning customer service. From the server at your local restaurant to the bank teller helping you at the counter.

 

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Should be one of the first heads to roll imo.

 

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I doubt they'll fire their Exec Producer, and what he says is correct. Nobody is under any onus to buy what they produce and DTG aren't int pressuring people to do so. They know that in the vast array of people who like trains, train games etc there are niches and not all of their DLC will fit into everyone's, hence "If you don't like it, don't buy it"

 

Oh you couldn't odds it...
https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/scotrail-express-announcement-to-playstation-users.64344/

One of these days DTG will be able to release something without it going sideways

 

Can we please calm down? Or better yet, lock the thread?

 

Mods please lock this thread.

 

If they had released the route with the broken TMS system there would be much anger, so they delay the playstation release to fix it......and there will be much anger. I am often critical of DTG but sometimes they just can't do right from wrong.

 

In this case someone somewhere (likely in Rivet) is going to get a stern talking to...

 

To be honest I'm kinda glad that they have found the problem before release and rescheduled the Playstation release for 5 days later. I mean what if DTG hadn't noticed it then bang the amount of Playstation users venting spleen (and other soft organs) at DTG and Rivet for not testing. Sure its a complete pain in the bum. But I would rather have it working and not bricking my playstation or crashing every time I use the TMS system.

Hentis