Upcoming Release Train Sim World 3: Laudable Lowlands

And then you have the arguments of realistic vs unrealistic timetables and layers.

And then another portion of the forum is unsatisfied.

 

One more train could have made a big difference. HST, 170 or 158 in the end. 385s are not the only train that operates for much of the route. Greenhill upper to Polmont yes but that's not the majority of the route. If people are excited for the route as presented fine but that doesn't have to be agreed with by all and nor is it fair to be called greedy by other posters for wanting a second train as per many previous DLCs by other production houses.

 

Yeah, something I have noticed is that people think the developers can just magic up new licenses and models- I was guilty of this myself during BCC- but the thing is that sometimes negotiating licenses can be tough, and some companies will be selective as to what they put their name on. It’s not always DTG/whichever applicable third party’s fault.

 

If the route is not right for you or not right for you yet, don’t buy it. I’m excited for the route and look forward to owning it barring any obvious, deal breaking issues during the livestream. I can’t watch the stream live tonight as I’m doing overtime, but I’ll watch it tomorrow and make a decision to buy or not to buy once I’ve done so.

 

For the records, I didn't call you or anyone else greedy. I think, two new trains should / would be best, either that or one train with new wagons. Tho, keep in mind that such an EMU is more like one loco and 2 wagons in terms of creation work done. We have to keep that in mind.

And about the HST; it just isn't ready, with missing LD features and other small fixes that they are still working on.

 

I mean it makes sense that people will have their own preferences regarding rolling stock. This train is just not appealing to some.

Why are you acting like it's a bad thing that people choose what route they buy depending on what train it includes in a TRAIN simulator? I think it's pretty understandable.

 

Apologies if it came across that way, I meant from others the comment was made. I feel we are not getting value for the money now, also that Rivet have put a lot of effort in for it to be a one train route. I will always express my feelings on this and know fully I have the right to buy or not to buy. Also that I have refunded so much from this producer that I am definitely not a day one purchaser!!

 

Well, I had zero interest in Jubilee or 8F (whatever unit that is) so I did not even check what is the in-cab view from those units.

With this route, I'm quite interested, hence the concern about the in-cab view, as that the only perspective I'm using when playing TSW.
But despite the in-cab view perspective I see also other cons of this route:

1. As much as I like to drive EMUs it also concerns me if 385 is that much different in terms of operating it from 377?
   If it is much similar, and I guess it might be, then I will master it in few runs. Then driving the train become none challanging at all.
   Here also comes the issue with no other new unit to jump to for some challange.
   
2. It probably will be 'green light' festival, due to not much traffic on the line, so the route itself will not be a challange to master as well

Result of those two points will be that I might master the route and the loco in just few runs and then what will be there left for me?
The view to admire - which I will not be able to because of that camera position in driver's cab

I can verify some of those concerns watching live streams on Playstation Live more or less, but for now, for me, it looks like an OK route, to check one day maybe if I'll be missing UK content.

 

That's true. Personally, I just want to spread awareness that it isn't as easy for the devs to find something that appeals to a lot of people if there isn't a universal agreement we as the community agree on.

Realistically speaking, they will be looking at what sells well and what we want. And if modern emu sells well, and the people in the SEHS threads call for more (remember the modern UK route complains when TSW3 came out), that's what we get, in one shape or another.

EDIT: I can't find the right Livestream but they confirmed this "Where to go next" decision making.

 

With the major difference is that the driver is doing a job. We are playing this piece of software (call it a game or a simulator, doesn't matter) for our enjoyment.

That is what makes a difference. I want to enjoy the scenery, that's what gives me enjoyment. The driver however, just need to stay focused, shouldn't get distracted by scenery, and likely has driven this route often enough that he can dream it.

Or they could've chosen a route and era that makes use of existing rolling stock. Again, design choices were made, and unfortunately they chose for a route that limits us to one train.

And, it's all part of a trend that doesn't utilize our collection of rolling stock in an optimal way. At least for TSC I have a Quick Drive mode that allows me to drive whatever train I want on whatever route I want. In such a case, I wouldn't be complaining here at all. I'd just buy the route and enjoy some of my other trains on the route. But considering TSW doesn't have such a feature (Scenario Creator is too cumbersome), we're stuck with whatever opportunities (layering&substitution) the devs give us, and we have a discussion about whether or not to include less realistic services like freight and railtours, which wouldn't be necessary if TSW just had a more flexible system that allows us to play the game our own way.

It's not licenses. It's not the amount of work. It's design choices.

Haven't seen anyone disagreeing with a Quick Drive mode, or a more flexible substitution system for non-AI trains, especially when combined with a Consist Editor.

 

In regards to comments about era, I have it on good authority that BR Blue stuff doesn’t sell well at all, it seems the little kiddies don’t enjoy that stuff and want more modern plastic iron board seat rubbish, with that being said I myself would love more BR Blue NSE stuff, so I’d say expect more modern stuff

 

Well, comparing the driver's view from a steam engine to that of a modern emu is, quite frankly, preposterous.

Steam engines were used in an era when there was no alternative and the view from the cab was immutable, determined by the shape of the machine. Speeds were generally lower to cope with the difficult driving position and signalling was simpler.

With a modern train, the choice is strictly with the designers. If you choose to integrate crew and passengers in the same vehicle, the ability to control the train safely should be paramount.

Can you imagine driving a car on the highway through a tiny portion of the windshield.

With the UK's over-the-top health and safety regime, I'm surprised this restricted driver's view passed muster.

 

RIP PlayStation users, things are about to get nuclear

 

Yes but imo its good they're willing to fix it before a release. People ofcourse wanna test out and hear those annoucements and when they don't work they will be mad anyway xD. I think its better to release it only 4 days than release is properly

 

Well, it's nice to see us playstation users get screwed over again with launch two days away.

 

I don't even have a puss 5 and I'm upset.
How can you continually [removed - JD - language] things up

 

I mean it is good that they are holding it and fixing it however there will always be a group of people who will, well you know

 

Eh, 4 days isn’t really a biggie to catch a flaw.

Better than releasing without the feature & then taking months to resolve. At least in this instance there’s a new date.

 

Yeah I love being told again that I can't purchase a DLC because testing didn't catch an issue until a couple of days before release and then get to watch everyone else play it. Love it.

 

It is a shame we didn't get a stretch of the ECML prior to this such as Newcastle-York so we'd have had pre-existing LNER stock to layer into their platforms at Waverley to mix things up a bit.

 

I agree, but I was talking about DLC. And features aren't easy to design either. They have to be made after all, and they have to guess how to make it work best for the consumer, especially with such highly requested features. That is why I believe LC was the only big new feature, as there was a need for it, but not a huge demand or many threads about how it should be done.

 

If you want to enjoy the scenery of the route, run the route with a different train, simple.

 

It's a terrible shame that it's been delayed for Playstation. I was really looking forward to playing it later this week. I had a feeling this route was too good to be true in some way. Still, better to have some time to fix it though.

 

Or just use an external camera.

I have to be honest, I wouldn't have cared a single bit about this route if it was set in the 70s, 80s or 90s. I simply don't care about the BR Blue era and would much rather have the "modern plastic iron board rubbish". It's what I grew up with and it's what I enjoy driving.

 

The worst thing about delay is that it is ONLY for us PS users!

 

Blimey, everyone's getting a bit narky today.
Here's a video of some cute kittens to calm you all down.

PS, if the window is to narrow, press full screen icon...

 

And again, that is your personal view on why you wish to buy it.

My view (like many others) is that 1 new train doesn't cut it and the developers need to know this. If a percent of their target market are unhappy, then changes may need to be made in order to satisfy to increase profit. This may include an additional train but a £10 increase on released DLC.

Ultimately, until another simulator comes along, the percentage who do not appreciate a reduced timetabled route will either purchase at a reduced rate in the sale, or choose to ignore the DLC altogether.

It seems creating loco DLC for previously released routes is becoming scarce within this game for British Routes in particular. This now is becoming similar for new routes being created since SoS.

 

It's not their fault unless you want them to just release it broken. At least rivet communicated and was honest. Issue popped up last minute, rivet are fixing it. It's not the end of the world.

 

I was really looking forward to playing this on Thursday, shame it’s been delayed.
Hope the PlayStation players can get a discount at release as compensation since not being able to play it on day one really does take some of the value away… literally the only justification I had for purchasing this at full price was that I would be able to play it on release day

That said, a fault with the TMS sounds quite severe since many features of the 385 seem to be controlled by it. I‘d rather have a fully working DLC a few days later than a buggy mess at release. Still looking forward to the preview stream, but really want to stress again that a discount for PS players is the least they can do in this case.

 

Look at it this way. PS players will be able to take advantage of the reviews from PC and XBOX users before they hit the buy button. I'm on PC but I'm going to do that anyway.

 

Agree. This would have been a Day 1 purchase for me even with a 158 or 170 (let alone a 27 or 47! ), but this plastic... thing... with its view like the window of a castle keep is a complete turn off. This hobby is about entertainment as much as simulation and squinting out of such a narrow view does not meet that requirement.

 

Although it is disappointing that it is to be released a few days later the only difference is that it will be released a few days later. I don’t see how it can make a difference to your justification for buying it, or it taking away any value. You still get the same content. The new Day One for PS players is just as good as the earlier Day One for the other platforms. It’s not a race to play it first after all.

 

No one should be buying anything day one without any proper reviews. This is how we get stuck with sub-standard DLC as they know people will lap it up anyway. If you believe that there is some prestige playing it on the day of release then you are a little silly.

The few days grace is a blessing as no doubt we will still get the day one discount but be able to take advantage of the actual reviews when deciding.

 

Who would then write these reviews, if all accept such a policy?

 

That´s why you get the option of driving this EMU with a shunting camera / outside view. If it would be 100% simulation, you wouldn´t have these options. Where´s the problem? =)

 

All would not accept such a policy. So you would still have a substantial number buying on release day and reviewing.
There also seem to be quite a few YouTube channels who have dedicated themselves to this purpose which one could watch.

What you can’t do however is buy something on release day just because you might save £2 and then complain when none of the issues get fixed.
They’ve got your money and they now know they don’t have to do any better next time to get sales. There is no incentive for developers and their managers to increase the quality of the route or play experience.

 

I‘m not too concerned about the release date being pushed back for us PS users, as I will likely wait for the add-on manager before purchasing this route.

 

It's still a soulless modern plastic train..!

 

While I don’t dislike EMUs, they don’t get the hype-o-meter up like steam or diesel traction does. They’re rather bland to drive compared to what came before them.

After this route, I hope focus for UK content changes to some more historical content. We’ve had two modern EMU routes in a row so it’s time for something else. We haven’t had a new BR diesel route from DTG since TSW2020, it’s about time that changed. Even better if they do some BR Green content that could later layer onto a route set in the steam/diesel crossover era.

 

Some of us love those "soulless plastic modern" trains. I grew up with them, and I have a lot more fun driving them. I wouldn't have cared about this route if it was set in the BR era, with boring, monotone grey and blue stock. So depressing.

 

Matt said in the preview stream that modern stuff is more popular, so it's probably less likely to happen than more modern routes, at least for the time being. I personally mind the occasional historic route, but I can't think of a single example of a route where I'd prefer to see it in anything other than privatisation. That's just my preference though.

 

Some feedback since the stream

I was expecting the concourse for Edinburgh Waverley to be closed and it wasn’t so that was a highlight feature of the route for me

Matt mentioned how whether voice annoucements could be ai or direct voice, I would recommend IMO that for routes the train comes with direct is better if it can be done but Ai voicing for other routes in scenario or layers, as this would allow the feature to be accurate for what’s developed for but also still actually have purpose on other routes.

there was another thing Matt in stream mentioned towards the end what he thought, should be or a setting to turn it off “potentially”. I can’t recall what it was, but I agreed with Matt on that one

noticed Edinburgh was quite dark for a city centre, particularly the balmoral hotel was complete darkness

little concerned with the headlights taillights bug, hope it won’t take long to resolve…

1 minute start up times are better than before, however 2 minutes is what’s needed, some stations are picky and even take longer than a minute to load passengers, concerns added when the timetable is mostly Ai generation, which in the past caused a lateness pattern on SEHS before being changed.

not an expert on the sounds but had no issue with them and thought they were of good quite high quality

would have helped if layers included railtour services with perhaps BR stock or Steam ?

noticed the tunnel set 2 when leaving Edinburgh had the “white void” of under the world showing down one side (Edin-Glas side)

1 Question, are the feature this route doesn’t have like the snow depth and platform water reflections planned to be added in later ?

manual Announcements don’t seem to much of an issue, especially for player driven services it’s the better option, would be nice Auto for Ai though.

the station accessibility of new areas I agree brings more life and interaction to the route, brings the ts”W” into the game more

 

Yeah, I heard him say that but they won’t attract people who like historical content to TSW if they don’t make much of it. I personally think there should be an equal balance of historical/modern, not more of one than the other to keep things fair.

Speaking for myself, I’m getting bored of EMUs specifically. Even without going into BR era, there’s a lack of DMUs and diesel locomotives that run on the network now.

My personal preference is steam, in it’s golden era. I’m still waiting for the SoS fixes before I can fully dive into it though. The other thing is, until SoS is fully fixed and manual firing added, I don’t see us getting new steam locomotives or routes.

I like driving a bit of everything in TSW, I just want more variety on the UK side of things. Be it routes, rolling stock and eras; the more variety, the better.

 

Agree. I fully respect those who do like the modern stuff, they probably don't know anything different. But TSW needs to cater to all tastes, whether it's the 12yo kid who doesn't know anything other than 385's on G to E, or us 60 something old farts who have fond memories of blasting out of Queen Street with a Class 40 on the front, while a 27 thrashed it's guts off banking in the rear to Cowlairs. That's the action I prefer not a powerful EMU that you find yourself throttling back because Notch 2 is still accelerating up a 1 in 50 gradient.

 

This! And I wonder why quite an amount of such issues seem to appear only on PS...

 

I don’t think there’s any major bias, I play on XSX and experienced a lot of bugs and also read forum reports on PC and thought “that’s bad, glad I ain’t got that issue”

 

Oh I'd certainly love a steam route in the mid to late 30s. I'd adore Swindon to Paddington in the age of the Cheltenham Flyer, with the Castle Class or Peterborough to York with a Streak.

Spirit of Steam was a bit of a letdown for me somehow. I actually think I've driven the Jubilee more on railtours on other routes than on Liverpool to Crewe.

 

I am referring to that kind of issues, that cause a "sudden" delay of the release, not just common bugs. Its not the first time that a PS-release had to be delayed a short term before the release date.

 

No need to be patronising. Not everyone who prefers modern traction is a child, and I do know stuff other than the 385. I simply prefer present day traction.

 

An example might be a route that no longer exists in the real world, such as Woodhead. There's no way to experience the entirety of that route now other than via simulation, and I'd have absolutely no qualms about doing an off the rails scenario with a bunch of EMUs on it