Harlem Line Atc Acses Appreciation

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by summersy, Jan 19, 2023.

  1. summersy

    summersy Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2022
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    207
    Just thought I'd post this to maybe start a discussion on the ATC ACSES safety systems on harlem line among other routes. I picked up the route yesterday through the xbox sale and I've got to say I'm having loads of fun driving the 2 trains using the safety systems.

    I don't see them talked about much as oppose to the likes of AWS and PZB/LZB and was just wondering what are other people's opinions on using these systems do people find it as much fun as I do? Personally I find them more fun to drive than any of the German safety systems. Although I'm not a huge fan of the German routes anyway.

    So do people love it? Hate it? Don't care either way? I've heard its poorly implemented in other routes so that can highly sway opinion, let us know your thoughts.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  2. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    3,711
    Likes Received:
    4,323
    cActUsjUiCe had a big part in getting those right. It works very well on Harlem. I Iike the realism it adds while operating with them on.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  3. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    I enjoy using the safety systems and like that Harlem line seems to be working well with ATC/ACSES.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  4. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2022
    Messages:
    2,095
    Likes Received:
    3,408
    The Harlem lines is one of my favorite routes in the game.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. yardem

    yardem Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2022
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    924
    How does one learn to use these systems?
     
  6. OnlyMe1909

    OnlyMe1909 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2019
    Messages:
    704
    Likes Received:
    924
    Driving with ATC / ACSES is fun on this route. Sadly though, I haven't played this route in many weeks due to the dispatcher problems. Every timetable service I try ends up deadlocked behind a stuck AI train...
     
  7. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    3,711
    Likes Received:
    4,323
     
  8. Bradley

    Bradley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2018
    Messages:
    917
    Likes Received:
    1,364
    I personally don’t use them
     
  9. yardem

    yardem Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2022
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    924
    I tried to watch the video with the senior gentleman, but I'm no more knowledgeable than I was beforehand.
    The train gets emergency brakes... "I didn't brake hard enough". What does that mean? How hard do you have to brake?
    Later on, "I didn't have to brake there, it was just a reflex". What are you on about?
    I'm sorry, but the video is not very educational.
    I would prefer a manual, like what we have for PZB. Any of that available?

    UPDATE: there are descriptions of ATC and ACSES in the NEC manual. Would these match the systems in the MTA trains?
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2023
  10. summersy

    summersy Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2022
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    207
    Yeah I must admit I was quite disappointed when working my way through the journey mode and hit 2 or 3 uncompletable services definitely puts a downer on the route route.

    As far as I'm aware they will be the same system. I wholly agree these sorts of systems should definitely have dedicated manuals, we shouldn't be searching the web deciphering different sources and relying on YouTube to supply tutorials.

    The way I learnt was watching the video then did a few services with just atc and figured out what that would do, then turned acses on aswell and worked my way through that. Then once I had them down you can just stick the alerter on and off you go. The best way is doing it both right and wrong and seeing what happens, but you've also got to realise why that happened and its not always obvious.
     
  11. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2018
    Messages:
    1,757
    Likes Received:
    3,492
    About the "didn't break hard enough" part, IIRC, when you pass a speed reduction (indicated on the in-cab panel), you must always acknowledge the reduction, and if you're over the new speed limit you must set brakes to "suppression" until you're under the new limit. This is tricky if you're only a couple of mph over the limit, as your first instinct would be just a minimum application.

    But, yes, Harlem is the best implementation of ATC/ACSES in TSW so far. Hopefully the revamped Boston will be just as good.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. bdlaplaca

    bdlaplaca Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    49
    Suppression on both the M7a and M3a appears to be 50% minimum brake application.
     
  13. yardem

    yardem Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2022
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    924
    I didn't say "break", I said "brake".
     
  14. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2018
    Messages:
    1,757
    Likes Received:
    3,492
    So that's the only thing you took from my post? A typo?

    Sorry for trying to help
     
    • Like Like x 2
  15. Bradmac

    Bradmac Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2020
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    36
    Seeing you didn't like the senior gentleman's paul.pavlinovich video :) ,

    Try this one from tygerways#2596

     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. yardem

    yardem Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2022
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    924
    Thanks for the explanation and sorry about pointing out the error in your quote.

    90 minutes? I'd rather try it and find out myself how it works.

    I've actually started enabling it, and no emergency brake so far.
    Sometimes it behaves like the LZB, for example when I approach the 10mph speed limit at the Grand Central Terminal. From 60mph, it first gives me a drop to 45mph, then 30mph, and then 15mph.
    However, out on the line, it just doesn't do this. Say I'm going 65mph, approaching a 60mph limit. The ACSES doesn't drop its limit until the actual speed limit occurs. By then, I had to manually drop my speed, in order to be under the limit when reaching the sign, as I would do without it.

    Anyway, it was great help in one scenario where I ran behind another train. Just like the LZB, it gives me a lower speed to match the train in front and not have to brake at red aspects.
     
  17. yardem

    yardem Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2022
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    924
    This also happened:
    I'm going North, approaching Wakefield, which is about 800 yards away.
    Line speed is 60mph, but ATC is holding me at 15mph, making me late.
    I checked and there was no train ahead of me.
    I think it held me back for an express that overtook me, but my next aspect change is 0.9mi away, so I could have stopped at the station without impeding the express.
    I recorded a short video, in case anyone wants to see it.

    Oh, this is brutal.
    The express is actually waiting at a red aspect, while I have yellow, and will be allowed in front of it. Meanwhile, I'm still kept by ATC at 15mph, and I have another stop I will be very late for.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2023
  18. bdlaplaca

    bdlaplaca Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    49
    That particular block section is really long for some reason, most likely a train on the express track had priority as you guessed.
     
  19. yardem

    yardem Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2022
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    924
    You might have missed the update: they held the express while I did two stops, and then crossed all the lines to park in a siding.
    This was a scenario, so I don't think this would happen in timetable mode.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. summersy

    summersy Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2022
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    207
    yardem glad you're getting to figure it out and hopefully you find it as fun as I do! A good way to think of it is ATC is controlling your speed in relation to signals and trains on the track ahead, and ACSES just makes sure you're not breaking the track limit at that time. Think of it like TVM if you know how that works.
     
  21. jack travers

    jack travers Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2022
    Messages:
    791
    Likes Received:
    562
    lol i got Harlem Line in the sale too and learned how to use ATC and ACSES by myself without a video!! In my opinion very easy to use. I love this line and haven’t stopped playing, I’ve played like 20 services by now and never had a signal block lmao
    Recommend it to anyone and can’t wait to get Boston Sprinter when safety systems are fixed
     
    • Like Like x 2
  22. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    3,711
    Likes Received:
    4,323
    Some important things. Always follow the lower speed. If track speed is lower than ATC, follow track speed. If ATC speed is lower, follow that. Also, when slowing down to satisfy ATC, make sure the "Brake Assurance" light on the ADU is on.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  23. summersy

    summersy Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2022
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    207
    Nice! Yeah I love how simple the premise of ATC is as well, normal limited medium restricted, it just works. Have you played through the journey mode? I got stuck on service 616 and 664 I think it was due to other trains off path. Looking on the Internet it seems a common problem unless you play the services in free roam.
     
  24. jack travers

    jack travers Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2022
    Messages:
    791
    Likes Received:
    562
    One thing I will say I hate it when Driving at say 75mph then it randomly goes to 40mph, luckily I have got 0 emergency brakes from it but I was definitely close !
     
  25. jack travers

    jack travers Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2022
    Messages:
    791
    Likes Received:
    562
    I’ll test it out after this service I’m doing with the M3A. But yes ATC is so simple !
     
  26. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,684
    Likes Received:
    1,994
    The Senior Gentleman here LOL.... anyway, "I didn't brake hard enough" means that I did not brake enough to meet the computers expectations of how hard I need to brake to make the target speed - this is called the Braking Curve. Basically increase your brake force until you see "SUPRESSION" on the display and you'll be ok.

    Sorry that you didn't find it educational, any feedback is appreciated.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  27. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,684
    Likes Received:
    1,994
    I am never going to live down this description am I :D
     
    • Like Like x 1
  28. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,103
    Likes Received:
    2,125
    The Harlem Line can be so engrossing. If you like the safety systems and the fact that they allow multiple trains to occupy a single block, give this a go:
    Train 670 Southeast - GCT at 17:18
    It’s one of my top three favorite TSW runs.
     
  29. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2021
    Messages:
    9,087
    Likes Received:
    5,606
    Absolutely like it and as a matter of fact All American routes should have one because the rule requires them to have it activated by 2021
     
    • Like Like x 1
  30. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    Messages:
    3,312
    Likes Received:
    8,665
    Even if not all routes, as for example ACSES wouldn't make much of a difference on a long slow route like Sherman Hill, but routes like LIRR could definitely use an ACSES update. With a proper timetable, that route would be gold.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  31. tygerways#2596

    tygerways#2596 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2021
    Messages:
    507
    Likes Received:
    517
    I'd rather have the ASC system (together with the rest of the signalling and cab signalling) fixed on LIRR, instead of the DLC "modernized" to ACSES. Leaves the route "historic" in a way, but adds more variety to the game.
    From what you can read on the internet, LIRR employees and customers aren't so super happy with the ACSES implementation anyway.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  32. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    Messages:
    3,312
    Likes Received:
    8,665
    That would work for me as well, or just as you say, might be even better - more "historical" accuracy and more variety.
     
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page