PC A New German Route? The Niddertalbahn

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by Cash, Aug 16, 2022.

  1. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2022
    Messages:
    6,223
    Likes Received:
    4,022
    If the 648 ever releases then yes.
     
  2. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2021
    Messages:
    9,086
    Likes Received:
    5,605
    You are absolutely correct because that's what I was thinking with the paint scheme on DB Baureihe 628. The electrified section Frankfurt am Main Hbf Bad Vilbel would have seen DB Baureihe 420 cream and orange paint S6 Friedberg S5 Friedrichsdorf
     
  3. e.leerentveld

    e.leerentveld Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2021
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    90
    The BR612 is used as a stand-in for the BR640/648 (LINT 27/41 respectively) that actually operated on that route in the late 90s/early 2000s. Those are much more modern D(M)Us and only ever ran in traffic red with DB (although other operators operate it in other liveries).

    The BR628/BR629 and its single unit brother BR627 could be seen all over Germany though, both on unelectrified lines as well as local services that shared track with electrified lines but ended in an unelectrified section (like the Moselweinbahn from Bullay to Trarbach).

    They're fun to drive and fun to ride as a passenger too. It's a bit like what a British Rail Pacer (for British fans) could have been when properly executed.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  4. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2021
    Messages:
    1,241
    Likes Received:
    2,641
    We actually still have DB BR 628s working hard in the region! I regularly see them at Landshut Hauptbahnhof, where they do the services on the slow and non-electrified line towards Mühldorf. Might have to take a ride just to experience it in real life before the DLC comes out :D

    Edit: While we’re speaking about the rolling stock… let’s talk about layers. I came to the conclusion that none whatsoever are possible because of the timeframe, right? The only thing that might work is the blue DB BR 363. TSG have stated that a BR 218 - which would be very accurate as these locos powered the Doppelstockwagen consists on the route in the past - might come down the line after the 420 and 232 loco DLCs are released. The 218 would need appropriate vintage Doppelstock wagons to arrive alongside it, though.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2022
  5. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2021
    Messages:
    1,241
    Likes Received:
    2,641
    Recently stumbled across this lovely old video of a cab ride on the Niddertalbahn! The timelapse seems to be set at just the right speed and contains helpful info such as station names and river crossings, but thankfully no annoying music, which makes for a very enjoyable viewing experience. :D
     
    • Like Like x 11
  6. e.leerentveld

    e.leerentveld Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2021
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    90
    The Bad Vilbel station is electrified (because it's also a station on the Frankfurt S-bahn line 6 and the Main-Weser-Bahn). The BR420 ran on both lines, so could at least be seen at the station in game.

    Nidderau is also electrified, as it's also a station on KBS 633. During works on the high speed line, ICE 1 trains ran through that station a few times a day in the 90s and 2000s, but the livery of the ICE 1 currently in the game is too modern for the era in which the route will be depicted in the game. And they only ran through Nidderau; they didn't stop there of course.

    But other than that and the BR363: no. There currently is no period correct rolling stock in TSW3. The dostos could be repainted in white/green and white/blue, but there's no suitable traction to operate on the line itself until/if the BR218 is released (again, stationary at Bad Vilbel with a BR110 could work: the Frankfurt region was one of the few places where 110s pulled dostos in the early 90s, but I'm not sure they ever made it as far as Bad Vilbel though).

    And even then: the Niddertalbahn is a local route: in real life, a combination of BR218 and dostos wouldn't be seen on it. In fact, the BR218 might even be too heavy for the track bed. EDIT: I just found out, by looking at this cab ride, that BR218+dostos did in fact run on the line in the early 2000s. So they might have done in the early 90s too.

    EDIT 2: I just noticed (in the cab ride video) that the Niddertalbahn is equipped with IR-gun operated level crossings. This could be a cool feature in the game: point an IR-gun at a receiver to close the barriers and then cross with the train.

    EDIT 3: And it looks like BR218 and n-wagen were a common site on the Niddertalbahn too. Now if we could get a Wittenberger Köpf control cab car and someone could repaint the (future) BR218 into the purple-red livery...
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2022
    • Like Like x 2
  7. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    11,735
    Likes Received:
    17,949
    Unfortunately, the third-gen Dostos currently in the game did not yet exist in the route's time period; they were first put into service in 1997/98. Back in the mint-green era the Dostos in service were the very different looking second-gen (all of which, incidentally, had high doors, unlike the low-door TSW Dostos).
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  8. e.leerentveld

    e.leerentveld Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2021
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    90
    You're right that the dostos currently in the game are too modern.

    In this pic, you can see two first gen low door dostos; ignore the control cab car, that's WAY different to the third gen ones currently in the game, but focus on the two cars between the control cab car and the locomotive:

    118956900_704834533711515_7917525780604699772_n.jpg
    This model, Bauart DBuz747, 747.1, 747.2, 749, 749.2 and 749.4, was introduced in 1993. They were modernised former DR dostos. A repainted middle car could pose for one of these no problem (hey: if a BR612 can pose as a BR648, then two dosto types are certainly interchangeable ;))
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2022
  9. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    11,735
    Likes Received:
    17,949
    But still doesn't fix the cab-car problem; nobody would mistake the one for the other
     
  10. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2021
    Messages:
    9,086
    Likes Received:
    5,605
    DB Baureihe 420 S-Bahn Rhein Main needs to be in the Produktfarben Orange and Cream to be period correct with Rollsigns S6 Friedrichsdorf
    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    11,735
    Likes Received:
    17,949
    The orange/pale gray livery for the Rhein-Main S-bahn 420s long predated the Produktfarben era; they were delivered that way from the factory beginning in 1972 (in fact, the 1972 production was initially diverted to München to help with the Olympics, and so that summer both orange and blue-green could be seen there). The festive 420s were the first breach in the DB "dull color" wall of chrome green, cobalt blue and maroon.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2021
    Messages:
    9,086
    Likes Received:
    5,605
    Thanks, and for the Route then they run S6 Frankfurt am Main Bad Vilbel DB BR628 express to Bad Vilbel from Frankfurt am Main Hbf. Achievement wise shares stats as the S-Bahn München DLC version
     
  13. e.leerentveld

    e.leerentveld Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2021
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    90
    Again, you're absolutely right. But if a BR612 can become a BR648 in TSW, and a low door DBpza can become a high door DBpza in TSW, then a DBpza can become a DBuz. :) :)

    But the 3rd gen control cab car doesn't look anything like the first gen, so perhaps leave that out (and drive sandwich or just open ended).
     
  14. Jonne1184

    Jonne1184 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2021
    Messages:
    213
    Likes Received:
    286
    Yeah, I hope not. The 612 replacement was already too far fetched. This would just become stupid.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  15. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2020
    Messages:
    1,701
    Likes Received:
    4,370
    What does that even mean?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  16. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2021
    Messages:
    9,086
    Likes Received:
    5,605
    It means that the DB Baureihe 420 S-Bahn Rhein Main version 1990s paint counts to the Hauptstrecke München Augsburg DB Baureihe 420 achievement. This is based on Bremen Oldenburg Baureihe 155 being counted towards Ruhr Sieg Nord Baureihe 155 achievements.
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  17. e.leerentveld

    e.leerentveld Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2021
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    90
    We can hope.

    I do hope they include the beige/orange livery with the BR420 when it releases, if only for AI use on Niddertalbahn. But it's unlikely that the EMU will be included with that route, so I'm afraid they won't include the livery.
     
  18. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2022
    Messages:
    6,223
    Likes Received:
    4,022
    420 is coming after the route anyway.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2021
    Messages:
    9,086
    Likes Received:
    5,605
    Good point unless Bahnstrecke Bad Vilbel Stockheim Niddertalbahn is supposed to run to Frankfurt am Main Hbf with the electric section being Frankfurt Main Hbf Bad Vilbel being made. That way DB Baureihe 420 S6 Friedrichsdorf is included with DB Baureihe 110.3 doing long distance services (fernverkehr).
     
  20. 25262

    25262 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2022
    Messages:
    340
    Likes Received:
    364
    218’s worked that line a lot more in the 2000s until 2012 with double decks it was 216s wich worked with the n-wagen. 216s are identical to 218s apart from most 216s were silent and they did not have ears unlike 218s.
     
  21. lux#4689

    lux#4689 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2021
    Messages:
    403
    Likes Received:
    509
    I can't remember where it was said, but it was confirmed, that the route is set in 1992.
     
  22. Haribo112

    Haribo112 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2020
    Messages:
    306
    Likes Received:
    478
    Your theory crafting is off the charts again. The BR 420 is made by TSG and will come after the route, not with it. This has already been confirmed by TSG themselves.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Helpful Helpful x 2
  23. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2022
    Messages:
    6,223
    Likes Received:
    4,022
    It's something called an aspiration. There would be low/no chance of it happening but people can still hope and say what they want. I think he's just giving suggestions and possibilities rather than saying it will come with it
     
    • Like Like x 1
  24. 25262

    25262 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2022
    Messages:
    340
    Likes Received:
    364
    That is good we might finally have nice german disels.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  25. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2021
    Messages:
    9,086
    Likes Received:
    5,605
    I agree and the game does need more Deutsche Reichsbahn diesel locomotives. there's only one V100 DR Baureihe 112 DB Baureihe 204 Main Spessart Bahn. Deutsche Bundesbahn Baureihe 601 624 796/797 Schienenbus
     
    • Like Like x 1
  26. 25262

    25262 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2022
    Messages:
    340
    Likes Received:
    364
    Yes as you say we do have a few german disels like the 204 but it would be nice to have a disel that makes a nice noise like the Db Br 211, 212, 215, 216, 217 & 218s as long as they have a tb10 or 11 engine.
     
  27. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2021
    Messages:
    9,086
    Likes Received:
    5,605
    Are those West German engines or East German VEB Kühlautomat berlin Johannistal KVD 100 engines?
     
  28. 25262

    25262 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2022
    Messages:
    340
    Likes Received:
    364
    West German engines, they sound superb.
     
  29. 25262

    25262 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2022
    Messages:
    340
    Likes Received:
    364
    The technichal name is MTU-12V-956-TB11.
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  30. e.leerentveld

    e.leerentveld Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2021
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    90
    The Tb10 and Tb11 are very loud and impressive turbo diesels fitted to some of the locos that 25262 mentioned. They're the only diesel engines (as in motors, not locos) that I know of that have a fan base :)

    They make a hammering sound mixed with a howl that sounds a bit like a jet taking off. You'd be forgiven to think it's a turbine engine (but it's not; it's a normal turbo diesel that drives a fluid coupler).

    Cologne main station was a perfect place to stand and listen to the departing BR218s. The roof made it sound just that bit more impressive.

    The BR212 made it to my (Dutch) home town of Nijmegen until the early 90s (push/pulling the local stopper from Kleve, Germany), occasionally replaced by a BR215 or 218. While the 212 and the 218 they used had one of the engines mentioned, the 215 did not. I was always a bit bummed when the 215 showed up.

    Here's a taste:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  31. 25262

    25262 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2022
    Messages:
    340
    Likes Received:
    364
    Yes as you say 218s sound superb and again as you say most 215s do not make a lot of noise but some of them sounded like 218s and if you look at photos of 215s it will be easy to spot because they have ears just like 218s.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  32. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    Messages:
    3,312
    Likes Received:
    8,665
    So from the preview I really liked the unique visual and feel of the route.

    But the whole thing felt really off. They kept praising the sounds, but I think they were quite bad. The engine sound sounded really generic, barely any running noise either inside or outside and very little ambient noise from when they left the train. No sound for the controls or doors moving.
    Also there was no cab sway at all, which is hard to believe they have prefectly smooth tracks on a local sidebranch like this.

    Hopefully this is because it was a very early WIP recording.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2023
    • Like Like x 4
  33. traindori

    traindori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2022
    Messages:
    296
    Likes Received:
    901
    And the engine sound seems to be that of the BR 612, which is also a bit strange. Let's hope this is really just an early stage of development / WIP.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  34. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2021
    Messages:
    2,244
    Likes Received:
    3,737
    Im sure tsg will rock the route. They are on a very high quality standard.
    The missing running sounds i have noticed aswell, but im sure its wip and maik wouldnt release it without proper soundmixing
     
    • Like Like x 3
  35. Tom Fresco

    Tom Fresco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2021
    Messages:
    638
    Likes Received:
    1,533
    Yeah, the Sounds were odd but it wasnt listed as a febuary release so theres still a lot of work and time going into the Route, im sure it will be up to TSGs standarts.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  36. traindori

    traindori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2022
    Messages:
    296
    Likes Received:
    901
    I agree.

    TSG is known for its good quality, which is why I was a bit surprised. But only a little, because:

    Despite these things in terms of sound: The route looks wonderful and sets new standards in terms of branch line atmosphere and design. For example, new trees and even (real) fields could be seen (and not just textures). At the train station you could see a ladder on a tree, maybe a tree house?
     
    • Like Like x 5
  37. deeuu#6908

    deeuu#6908 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2021
    Messages:
    331
    Likes Received:
    922
    I know nothing about the real train, but on listening to that video I thought, surely it can't sound like that, as it sounds really really weird.

    Is this the same train? >
     
  38. Cael

    Cael Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2018
    Messages:
    667
    Likes Received:
    1,366
    If you notice, the route quality varies wildly, with some stages looking close to completion and some stages VERY empty:
    upload_2023-2-6_10-55-34.png

    This leads me to believe the route is still very heavily WIP and will not release any time soon. My earliest estimate would be May/June, perhaps even later. At this stage, many of the things are going to be placeholders.
     
  39. OpenMinded

    OpenMinded Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2021
    Messages:
    810
    Likes Received:
    1,262
    This is the right train, but it consist of two wagons. Only one of them (almost) has the engine, the other one is only a cab car. On this video I would assume we are seeing the cab car. I must admit, though, that it is decades ago that I have been on one and I have absolutely no clue what it should sound like...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  40. Redbus

    Redbus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,011
    Likes Received:
    2,104
    Hellfire! They are indeed total beasts, I've never heard one in real life. :love:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  41. Tom Fresco

    Tom Fresco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2021
    Messages:
    638
    Likes Received:
    1,533
    It was confirmed by mike over at railsim.de that the sounds are of course just a placeholder to test stuff with transitioning and gearing.

    Some people really dont know what WIP means, thats why Pictures of early developments arent shared that often, as the product would be measured how it looks weeks before an unannounced release Date.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  42. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    Messages:
    3,312
    Likes Received:
    8,665
    Well, to be honest, in TSW you can never know. They often keep saying 'it's an early dev built", then the product releases exactly as it was shown.

    But it's good to have confirmation that it is not the case here. Looking forward to seeing how the finished product will look and sound like, as it looks promising so far.
     
  43. hiromaru

    hiromaru Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2023
    Messages:
    182
    Likes Received:
    64
    What recommendations do you have for this route?
     
  44. e.leerentveld

    e.leerentveld Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2021
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    90
    Not when Maik is involved. He makes great stuff.

    With Rivet or Skyhook (for example), yes, you're right that it can happen, but not if the route is a TSG product.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  45. traindori

    traindori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2022
    Messages:
    296
    Likes Received:
    901
    In fact it was said:

    "The sound inside is still being adjusted as far as possible, because it sounds really different than a 612. But the outside will have to stay that way. I don't have an original sound to use and the two engines don't sound that massively different."

    So there's no original sound, which is a shame, but doesn't necessarily mean it's going bad. We will see. 612 and 628 do indeed sound similar, it will fit.

    What bothers me more is the black logo (which was smaller and oriental red in real life), the black lamp sockets and the display that is still much too large. But I am sure that this will all be fixed.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Personally, I wouldn't necessarily have shown gameplay at such an early stage. Now it is logical that what is shown is discussed.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2023
  46. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2022
    Messages:
    6,223
    Likes Received:
    4,022
    Like previous said, Maik isn't the type of person who would do a half arsed job. He doesn't even release it until it's almost perfect since he sets really high standards. Look how well the g6 was made and received and various other products such as helping with most german stock.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  47. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    952
    Likes Received:
    4,345
    You may have a further look at some images of that train and how much different types there are. The one on your image is from the very first batch of that series and not modernised at the time. Ours is a bit more modern, with a new destination display, different windshield housing, different lamp housings, etc. pp..
     
    • Like Like x 15
  48. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2019
    Messages:
    3,177
    Likes Received:
    9,162
    I think TSG stuff is the only content I’ll ever see with ‘WIP’ on it and believe it, not once in TSW have we been let down by anything Maik has worked on, no reason to believe that will happen with the first TSG route.

    I think the demo was more to show off the theme of the route, which is quite nice, and the exact type of gameplay I’d imagine with a 628.

    I do think it was weird how Matt was talking about how good it sounded, when it was literally just a 612 soundset.

    Watching this route with great interest, not usually what I’d go for, but the TSG stuff is always great.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  49. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2020
    Messages:
    872
    Likes Received:
    3,030
    Although I know I'm going off topic, I have to say in this regard that I honestly find myself giving less and less credence to everything Matt says. I mean, he's a person I like and respect. And I know he has to advertise and sell his product, but in my opinion he's been over-enthusiastic lately, especially when what he says and what we're all seeing don't match at all. It all seems too made up and sugar-coated, with language that often borders on the childish. Sometimes I feel like I'm not being talked to like an adult and I'm being taken for a fool. I'm serious and I mean no offence, it's just my personal impression.

    It reminds me of many years ago when I worked for a while as a salesman selling encyclopaedias. I exaggerated everything so much to make the product appealing to the customer, that now seen in perspective it was quite ridiculous.

    I miss Protagonist a lot, with a more critical and realistic style. Maybe that's why it was removed from previews.
     
    • Like Like x 13
  50. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2019
    Messages:
    3,177
    Likes Received:
    9,162
    Yeah I think a lot of people take what he says as gospel - for me though he’s my favourite member of the team, although sometimes he does get things wrong (which is perfectly fine), he is overall the expert and I genuinely enjoy him the majority on the time he’s on screen. There are moments though when I’m thinking ‘what are you talking about’ such as last night.

    I do agree that there is a rather condescending tone to a lot of streams and it’s mostly made me avoid them, I can’t remember the last time I watch a full roadmap stream, sometimes it feels like I’m watching a children’s show for train fans. It also doesn’t help that the majority of the time, no one really seems to know much about anything - until Matt starts talking (and even then there is an alarming lack of knowledge when it comes to what his team has been working on).

    Anyway, I’ve gone off on a tangent there - but maybe if anyone from the community team happen upon this, maybe it’s something to consider?
     
    • Like Like x 5

Share This Page