Poll/petition - Forthcoming Uk Steam Route End Points

Already a fair bit of discussion about this route finishing at Ambergate rather than Derby and to a lesser extent Chinley instead of running through to Manchester. So here is a poll/petition for DTG to do the decent thing and give us all a much more rounded route...

 

Derby feels a lot more logical. Manchester would also be nice, but isn't as neccesary and perhaps asking a bit too much.

 

Nearly all expresses stopped at Derby and Chinley, so they seem like logical endpoints.

 

This reminds me of when the Harlem line was announced and the backlash it got for not going to Southeast since all the main terminus for all Harlem line electrified services was southeast with some trains terminating south of southeast at Mount Kisco or Brewster.

DTG didn't extend that route and they surely won't extend this route no matter what people say about it unfortunately

 

As it would have been nice to have it going to Manchester, with it putting another major city onto the Train Sim World map. I think it is much easier for DTG to take it to Derby

 

I went for the Derby option. I would have loved it to go to Manchester but I think we will be lucky if it went to Derby so not going to push it

 

My opinion on the end points:

The current ones:
Ambergate/Buxton/Chinley makes the route feel incomplete sadly, the freight section of the route is there but the passenger side is lacking a little

Extending to Derby:
Would be a good idea and would make express services more playable and have a purpose if you will

Extending to Manchester:
Another idea, people will argue this but extending to Derby would be better because the southern portion stops at Ambergate and could be extended to Derby instead of at a little isolated station (no offence to Ambergate)

My final verdict:
I feel DTG should make the route from Buxton/Chinley to Derby as people would have more of an interest in the route but that's my opinion on it, if you disagree with my views, it's your opinion and I don't have an issue with that

 

You are quite likely right but if you don't try then you definately don't gain anything.

 

I also voted Derby. I had to put Manchester as an option but realistically don't expect that. Derby however should be perfectly doable.

 

This is not a route I am particularly familiar with, so the endpoints are fine as they are for me. For others who know the route better, I can understand the desire to extend to Derby, but what about freight services? Would they also stop at Derby or continue through the station non-stop? I can't see that being much different to an unprototypical extra stop at Ambergate for gameplay start/end purposes.

 

This is a question that would best be answered if anyone has a copy of the Freight Working Timetable for 1963. I know it's Midland Region Section D but I can't find a copy anywhere online - more likely someone has a hard copy at home somewhere.

I would imagine that the longer distance mixed freight services might start from a yard around Derby - they definitely wouldn't start from Ambergate. A local pickup goods train may also start from the same sort of place. The ICI limestone trains are primarily centred around the other end of the route between Buxton and Chinley.

 

With Derby being a major rail centre I would imagine most freights would have stopped there, even if just for a change of crew or to fuel. It would certainly be more realistic than ending your express service at a fairly insignificant junction station where expresses didn't stop.

 

I too was realistic and went Derby as Chinley isn't as bad as what Ambergate is. A rather strange decision really.

 

Thanks for the input so far. Derby definitely seems to be coming out on top.

 

This Is why I want to see Derby added...
https://www.derbygbr.co.uk/derby-is-built-on-railway-heritage

Derby is the Birthplace and Heart of the MCR, Surely this gives it a right to have a place in this new DTG addition?

 

To be honest, if they go to a major station it’s just going to be deserted again. Like Crewe, Liverpool or any of the other major stations for DLC with very few items of rolling stock.

As long as the gameplay is engaging and entertaining then I think it’s ok to finish short of a major destination.

 

The add-on itself would come with enough stock to make Derby look busy if they wanted. Personally I would rather have a deserted Derby and be able to start your train from a major mainline station and head into the countryside than start at a little used station.

 

This is probably the reason why they opted for the chosen start and end locations. If they put a main station, they know that they will get complaints about it being empty.

 

It hasn't bothered them in the past so it's really no excuse. They just rebut or ignore complaints about that sort of thing.

 

So very true.

 

They should consider what is more important then. An empty mainline station but a logical starting point, or having an illogical starting point which makes no sense for any of the services on the line?

 

Either way, they will be happy just as long as they make money!

 

Well yes that is true of course. From first glance they won't be getting of mine for it, which is not something I thought I would be saying on Sunday afternoon. However who knows what the final package consists of. I will almost forgive the lack of a Derby station if they provide a realistic passenger train for the Buxton branch line, which is the other area of concern for me.

 

The extra mileage to Derby is a must for immersion purposes. NTP is my favourite route but it probably wouldn’t if it started at stalybridge ( I think that’s the right spelling) and ended at Dewsbury.

 

I picked the Derby option, makes more sense. Not fussed if it's ending at Ambergate though, I'm just happy we're getting another steam route!

 

As there is no option for ‘I’ll take the route as it comes” I’ll just write that here. This is not the same as what it is currently said to be as things do change.

Routes ending at major terminus - criticism for the big empty station and possibly poor performance caused by all the infrastructure.
Routes ending at intermediate station - criticism for not ending at a bigger ‘more deserving’ station.

I don’t have the answer to this, so I’ll let the route builders make the decision based on all the factors at play and keep out of it.

 

Derby because you can use laying from WCML Liverpool-Crewe Jubilee and 8F as layers there on the MML section.

 

This is pretty much how I feel about it. People will be upset either way, such is the way of this fanbase. I suppose it would have been better if it went to Derby, but I'm not losing sleep over it.

 

Option 1... As it is.

 

That is fair enough of course but I don't think there is anything wrong in wanting a little more immersion and realism. If the new MML route started from Barrow on Soar would you still be as accepting? If so, fair enough!

 

Indeed. Of the announced new routes this is the only one that doesn't have at least one logical end point. Imagine the outcry from the German customer base if the Rhine Valley route had stopped 15km short of Koblenz or Mainz.

 

Well that is true there would be loads of complaints.

It is often the case on forums like this that people don't care and think you are moaning about nothing until it is something they have a huge interest in. I have been guilty of that myself in the past. I thought the change of the ballast on SEHS was ridiculously petty until I actually saw the difference it made.

For me a route should have a logical terminus or end point at least at one end, I want to imagine as much as possible I am really driving a Jubilee over the Peaks in 1963 so for me immersion is important. Maybe I am strange and possibly in the minority!

If complaining does nothing more than make DTG consider these things in the future it will be a good thing.

 

For me personally it's a case of 'Derby would be a way more logical point and seems worth the extra effort, but on the other hand I won't go completely insane if it isn't there'. Sure, Derby would be way nicer and more logical to me, and having Ambergate as the start will always feel weird, but I do think that the rest of the route could still be very enjoyable.

Manchester would of course also be great, but that feels more like just fantasizing to me.

 

I have added a vote to that option but if what releases turns out to be option 2, the only possible change really on the cards, then I’ll still take it.

 

I genuinely wonder if they haven't done Derby because the Midland Mainline Route is going there. Maybe for some reason they don't want a duplicate station, even though Derby looks totally different now than it did in the early 60s.

My other theory is that all the surrounding yards etc would have added far too much to the workload. From what I remember part of the reason why Liverpool- Crewe took so long was because of all the marshalling yards and depots, which they had to meticulously research and spend ages recreating. Perhaps they want to avoid such a task again, even though they'd only have one big area instead of three.

 

It's already there.

 

Like most others, I'd love to see it go to Manchester, but that's not going to happen. An extension to Derby to allow the fast trains to be driven realistically, feels feasible.

 

I’ve voted for Derby. Having the route go from Manchester to Derby would be AMAZING but it’s unrealistic to expect that at this point in development.
To be honest, it’s probably too late for even a Derby extension but I think it’s a reasonable request and we should do our best to ensure DTG hear.

 

I voted for As Is, because whatever they do, they're going to get people saying "blah blah blah, should have done x-y-z"

I don't really care if it's an ilogical starting point. I just want to see a pretty route and do some walking

 

Belatedly revisited this. Definitely seems the “ayes” have it so will be interesting to see if DTG entertain the customer aspiration that Derby should be included at the south end.

 

I don't know the route, what I would say though is that with the upcoming Midland mainline DLC and the existing TPL it would make sense for it to run from Manchester to Derby, incidentally I wasn't able to vote for some reason, not sure if this is because I use my phone.

 

I really hope so, it just seems to me the strangest place to start a route. I realise it is the junction from where the line starts but if that was used as a reason to decide route choices there would be some strange routes out there.

For me it will truly destroy immersion.

Frankly I would rather they concentrate on adding DLC to SOS which feels like a good choice of route from a major junction to a major city terminus. You could imagine a driver taking over a Crewe for the run into Liverpool. I am sure Ambergate junction wasn't a signing on point!

 

I do like this route being slightly smaller in scope. Still a two track mainline, but not of the insane size and traffic amounts of Liverpool-Crewe. That route was just too ambitious for the first steam route, and would have been better after a collection of steam locos to populate it already existed.

 

Yeah I'm honestly wondering if this is perhaps where they should have started? Smaller scale, can probably fill the route a little easier and have a more engaging timetable.

As much as I love SOS its so empty

 

Even this route would have had quite a variety of loco's although by 1963 a lot of the midland railway types would have been in rapid decline and many gone.

This wasn't that busy a route though, if it turns out to be busier than SOS then that is a complete misrepresentation.

I made a couple of scenarios on the TSC route which includes Manchester to Derby, using a late 50's passenger timetable and you only passed around eight trains of which half of them were between Manchester and Stockport with a Hope Valley service at Chinley. I think freight trains were still pretty active in the Peak district around 1963.

I am mostly interested now, what they will do about the Buxton to Millers Dale passenger service. T

 

Also as an interesting aside to the "One route, one train" policy of recent releases, does that mean in the admittedly unlikely event of purchasers not owning SoS they will only get the 4F? We have seen this with the new NEC route where if you want the Acela it needs to be purchased separately or in the bundle. Buying the route alone doesn't give you it.

 

I wouldn't think so. The route has been announced as coming with the Jubilee and 8F I believe. And NY-Trenton might not have included the Acela, but it did include two locos (one of which re-used) and two cab cars (one of which was reused from the old NEC route). This is not really something I'd be worried about at this time.

 

Remember that DTG purposely do not listen to the results of polls so they do not create an expectation in the community that poll results actually matter to DTG. Please do not expect an extension under any circumstances.

 

The Acela was hinted as a seperate loco DLC over a year ago. Because it's 'home' route is Boston - Providence, it wouldn't make much sense to then demand players buy NEC New York - Trenton for it.

Also, I think Matt either stated or implied that the 4F, 8F and Jubilee will all be included in this DLC.

 

I do wonder how much the forums do get a voice as we're the vocal few compared to the majority which perhaps don't play as much or aren't active within the community.