Ny-trenton: Usa Content Is Still Severely Flawed

“Minor Improvements”
“NY Penn is almost the same as it was in LIRR”
- Matt

Plus, look at the screenshot of Sunnyside Yard on the store page.

 

That was probably taken prior to upgrading the catenary.

 

Nobody in this thread is talking about the catenary.

it’s about the scenery. The asset buildings. Nothing has changed since NEC NY which is approaching 6 years old now.

also,
“The NYC skyline is the same as it was before”
- Matt, on the roadmap stream

EDIT -- Explanation for first sentence of this post is in this post: https://forums.dovetailgames.com/th...till-severely-flawed.64885/page-8#post-605717

 

Technically 5 years old, since it was released in 2018

 

Why shouldn't he talk about the catenary? It's part of the route/ scenery.

Your initial post was fine and stated your point of view clearly..

But you seem to resent anyone disagreeing with you and your poll reflects that.
It's about as objective as a rock star's fan club.

Despite your protestations that " it's OK to like the route " , you really don't think anyone should, do you?

Words like " ridiculous " and " forgotten and left in the dust " don't belong in an objective poll.

Just for the record, I think the route appears to be missing some key features and seems to lack a busy timetable, among other issues. I'll wait for the stream before deciding whether it's as bad as you seem to think it is, sight unseen.

Who knows, the route may be incomplete but still may be well modeled and it and the Acela may offer some excellent gameplay.

As I've said, I wish it had some LIRR traffic, some freight component and, especially, Morrisville. But I'm not dismissing it as a whole and will probably end up buying it.

 

I just went into the nj transit app and checked tomorrows schedule 2/13/23 between Newark and New York. There 113 trains going into ny Penn and presumably that many going back. This does not include Morris Dover etc trains but does include coastline trains.

the Amtrak schedule looks close to prototype but the njt timetable is very light

I can understand people being frustrated by that.

Even if the coastline stops at Rahway and doesn’t go down the branch other than ai it’s more realistic as a model of the prototype.

it’s nice to see the silvers crescent etc but are the Newport News etc trains included in nec list?

not having morrisville at the other end for deadheads in and out is disappointing

 

Fair points,

It’s not a problem at all that they’re referring to the OHLE. It’s just that he said that “nobody seems to have read my previous post” and 90% of the previous posts of the scenery weren’t referring to the Catenery, so was just putting into perspective what we meant about scenery. It’s great that DTG updated it.

I don’t resent anyone for liking this route at all. I love the route, I think it’s the best section of the Northeast Corridor they could’ve picked, very happy to see NJ Transit finally in the game, very happy to see the Amfleet Cab Car make a return, very happy to have the Acela layer into it. I was very excited to hear the announcement of NY-Trenton.

the route itself is a great choice, the trains are a great choice, and in my opinion, this could’ve very well been the best NA route in the game.

I fully understand that the choice of words in my Poll and Poll Options come across the way they do, I didn’t intend for that but I can see why you think that. I apologize on that part.

however, the poll is completely optional, I only pointed it out and asked if people could take a look at it, nobody has to.

if both options aren’t appealing to the person, just simply don’t vote, or additionally
make a post on why both options don’t appeal to you, and expand on what your opinion is instead.

I’ve been playing TSW for years, been loyal to the game and buying DLC, but in my opinion, it’s a fact that American content hasn’t been as great as it could be, and I wish DTG would better communicate and listen to feedback, some of this feedback (PIS) dates back to Boston’s release.

Once again, I see the points you made, and admit my choice of words were not great in the poll, unfortunately I can’t change them, however the poll, replying to this post, liking the post, all remains completely optional to everyone.

that’s my stance on this,

Thank you

 

Oops, got the years mixed up, my bad

thanks for the correction

 

Yes

the coast line is all ac to Long Beach where the ny trains tie down. The hybrids are used more for Hoboken express trains to bay head, ny Penn trains to bay head (limited to a 5 ish up in an and down in pm) and the shuttle train from long branch to bay head. It’s not uncommon at all to see the alp46 long branch to ny, and south amboy to ny locals

 

Fair enough.

 

Thank you so much honestly, We needed someone like you to really stir up the community and get the point across that the treatment of US content is unacceptable. They say that as much work goes into US stuff as others, but anyone who knows US railroading knows that so far from true, operationally and Scenery wise. I hope DTG actually read every response in this thread and do something about it, because the US fan base is falling off very quickly, and there is upcoming US train simulators that are to release this year. I really hope DTG takes this seriously. Anyone remember how Sherman Hill shipped?

 

Peak trajns typically run express to Woodbridge south amboy or matawan with locals from south amboy behind them

off peak it’s all full stops Rahway to ny penn

 

Yeah, I apologize once again if I came off like that, I just really like Train Sim World and want to see it being used to its full potential.

I'd also like to add to my last post that I don't support any hostility toward DTG staff at all (Especially Matt and JD). It's not the developer's fault, but there definitely seems to be some sort of problem somewhere in upper management at the company, of course, we don't know anything for certain, and that upper management claim is purely speculation, as we don't work for DTG in any capacity.

And when I say "DTG" I mean the company and management as a whole, not individual developers and employees

These issues have been going on for years, and the only way to be heard is if we speak up, and this forum post has blown up since Thursday.

 

Seems like DTG has odd choices or bad idea's for every recent US route that has been released, or route quality suffers due to deadlines.

 

Right, ideally, if they set it up correctly, it would make sense to allow players to operate the off-peak services up to Rahway before they split off the corridor (just like how in Boston to Providence, you can run Franklin Line trains until Readville). Express services that don’t make local stops on the NEC would be AI controlled.

I’d like to know if they included any of these services NJCL/midtown direct as AI only services.

 

This is a common misconception within this thread that I would like to help clear up.
The LIRR DLC for TSW is one of very few routes in TSW that features simplified rolling stock. Theres a model of the M7 that is essentially a static scenery asset, which is used to populate the yards and other tracks ONLY in that DLCs scenarios. The only other DLC that does something similar was the original NEC route for TSW, with static Amfleets. You can tell these apart because the geometry is much less complex, they have reduced texture fidelity, and the windows are opaque.

The reason given for why this isn't something we see more often is because DTG wants to keep track space free, in case they want to make an addon that could utilize it in the future. If its in the timetable mode, then they have to go through the effort of removing each one of the assets blocking the tracks. This is also true for Scenario Creator as well.

From afar they look fine and populate the scenery for more immersion, while also being pretty 'cheap' in performance cost compared to a full-fledged drivable model.

 

Definitely not me since I have no interest in American steam freight that seems to be the main part of railroader. I also don't even know what that game is going to be about. You can't make generalizations like that lol

 

As for my own opinion about the upcoming DLC itself, I have mixed feelings. I don't truly think it's the case anymore that U.S. content lacks far behind U.K. and German content. And I say that after playing the LOVE out of the Metro North Harlem Line DLC. It's a route that I genuinely really enjoy, and I think THAT DLC should set the baseline minimum for what U.S. content should offer. The service variety keeps things interesting, the sounds are pretty damn good, and just the overall commuter nature of this route is something that I liked.

Now with that said, if there's something that I want DTG to pay more attention to with American content its the general scenery quality, and the level of traffic.
There's still a lot left to see what comes from NY - Trenton, but so far I really love the way the train looks, and the scenery seems okay....EXCEPT for the area around Sunnyside Yard and on the approach to Penn Station. These areas are around Long Island City, Newark, Hoboken, and Manhattan itself, they SHOULD be very well built up areas with tall buildings that you can see for miles/kilometers. I don't get that same feeling from the screenshots so far.
Metro North Harlem Line did a pretty decent enough job with it. There's also the San Francisco skyline in Penninsula Corridor to consider.
THAT is what things should look like in NY - Trenton, considering this is one of the busiest rail corridors in the America's.

 

Hopefully this time we will hear more rattling clickety clack sound on the rail, especially since they have the recording.

 

And after the amount of feedback on what everyone agreed was wrong with Birmingham New St, too.

 

spot on that can make it realistic as possible

 

I’ve voted in the poll, no surprises it’s the option with most votes so far. I doubt they’ll delay the release or that anything will be changed though - happy to be proven wrong of course. Fed up being so negative all the time, but DTG isn’t making it easy to be positive.

 

Agree the poll could have been worded better but even as someone with no particular knowledge of the prototype, things seem far from right here. So I voted for the currently winning option. £30 on this or a bit more content for Run8 is a bit of a no brainier at present.

 

Yup, I was overly positive about Rivets DLC - that didn’t turn out so well, yes I know they’re working on an update & that people are praising the fact, but it’s an update full of things that should of been sorted before release.

I was also positive about the new US content, but that’s really shaping up to be a flatlined release.

A couple of days ago Matt had left a comment saying he was in a foul mood & that he needed to spend less time on the forum - I’m not trying to be that guy, but honestly what did DTG expect after the past week?

Firstly they hype everyone up about the fantastic new US content, and how they’re going to have super duper awesome bundles - then just drop the fact that they’re all for new players & nothing for their existing playerbase.

Then, they start planting red flags on the roadmap stream, basically outlining that in fact this DLC isn’t anything special & the only the feature that it comes with is the fact that it’s got the same design philosophy of a TSW2020 DLC.

If DTG want smoke blowing up their tunnels then they need to go and look for it from a userbase that will be getting those deals & wont be accustomed to DTG’s prancing about with half cooked content. They aren’t going to find praise for that stuff from an existing userbase that is being cut out of discounts & let down on content.

 

Yep, I wish I could change the question's text but it's not allowing me unfortunately.

 

Ultimately I hope a few things happen;

1) The timetable issues this thread pointed out are taken into further consideration for a post-release patch. Realistically, a modification won't happen before release. (which is understandable, IIRC I believe one of the consoles, or maybe both, the final builds have to be sent in a week or two prior?). An LIRR layer needs to happen.

2) The PIS screens probably won't be redesigned, even after post-release, that's almost a given. But ideally, I hope we get a promise that for the next US route after NY-Trenton, they will take the PIS screens more seriously and make something authentic.

3) I hope that for future routes as well, that overlap former routes in one way or another, they don't just flat-out copy and paste without major improvements or updates. (unless major improvements aren't actually necessary, however for NY-T, they were necessary)

 

Even if the timetable does not change for release or it does not get postponed, I hope they can at least give us some promises.

Will it get busier in a post-release patch? Or are they planning train add-ons for the route, like more NJT rolling stock to fill in the gaps? If so, then great! I will be happy to wait a bit and buy the route when it gets busier.

But if they end up leaving it at it is, half finished and empty, like so many other routes, then I would not feel good about getting it.

 

I think this thread shows how important details are for true rail fans, be it in the scenery, the catenary or the timetables. Sometimes missing details can make a product look unfinished or partially receyeclt. Because there is always a certain pressure on the developer side to release so and so much DLC in one quarter that the quality has to be subordinate to the effectiveness. I also think the criticism is especially loud for this new US route because LIRR wasn't one of the best routes either and was taken over specifically at Sunnyside Yard, which would have been in need of improvement. The fact that the TSC version of LIRR also looks better in terms of scenery doesn't make things any easier.

 

Yea when that was said I had to go back several times to make sure I heard that correctly. Imagine if they had said no southeastern traffic at victoria . It doesn’t matter they would only be available at Victoria”. Really when you think about just shows what a lack of respect they have for US rail fans. Leaving the LIRR , the busiest commuter railroad from the busiest train station in the US.

 

I’ve been catching up with this thread today. I’m going to go back to the issue of PIS using the UK artwork and an insistence from DTG that the artists have put as much effort into this route as they do with UK routes. Either that isn’t true or they haven’t been allowed to work on PIS art by the producers. The producers schedule the work after all. I could understand this if it was the first time but it isn’t. It always gets feedback and I read that feedback every time so DTG should have seen that it is a big deal to US players. The UK routes have many different styles of PIS boards, all completed within the time allocated by the producers to make the routes. The US routes have none and use one style of UK PIS board artwork. It’s especially befuddling after DTG asked for reference, although that thread didn’t work out too well.

I can understand the lack of LIRR traffic at Penn and the yard because I reckon it would make the route performance fall over for most players if it was included but I don’t understand the repeated use of UK PIS boards given the feedback on it and yet we are still being asked to give the feedback that it isn’t good enough in this thread. So I’ll lend my feedback for that one cause here and maybe this time DTG will listen.

 

On the BML 4800+ services, 73 trains and hour at Victoria on my XBOX X and PC work fine.
I think is an excuse to keep saying adding the LIRR would just crash the game. With that thinking the BML would had never been made. But it was and it runs good. They just added even mores services to the BML. So is possible if they really wanted to put the effort.

 

When DTG said they were not going to preserve the original 2018 NEC because it would be a lot of work, I understood it perfectly. After all, they weren't going to get any financial return for it, and a company can't work for nothing in return.

But what I don't understand so much is that now on a new route that they sell at full price (having recently raised prices by 20%) they copy and paste a good part of that old route, without making practically any modifications. If at least all these savings had been invested in additional improvements, such as a LIRR layer and implementing a prototypical PIS, it would have made it seem like a fair deal.

I have even come to believe that this was all part of a plan from the beginning to recycle NEC New York.
Was it really so difficult and expensive to preserve this route compared to others from that era that they did preserve, or did they intend to take the easy way out and sell us something old at full price one day? Maybe I'm overthinking things, but the dubious ethics often demonstrated by the management of this company by releasing DLC after DLC and imposing a release date with little regard for quality or bugs makes me come to this conclusion. They seem to only look at the numbers and keeping their investors happy no matter what the cost.

I think they've crossed a red line and if we gamers just swallow it like it's nothing, it's very possible that this will happen again in the future.

 

These are the numbers of services that we can have on the NJT. Now meaning some diesel, arrows, ALP-45 dual mode would have to be replaced with the Only available stock ALP46 and Cabcar
NJT 38 north jersey coast line would end and Rahway

55- Morris Essex lines- player services would end at Secaucus

21-Montclair- Secaucus

8-ratitan- Newark Penn station

63-NEC 47trenton-14 jersey avenue-1 Princeton 1 New Brunswick

Total 218 x2=436 just for passenger service for NJT
Also as far as the LIRR


Long Island Rail Road
The Long Island Rail Road is the busiest commuter railroad in North America, carrying an average of 301,000 customers each weekday on 735 daily trains.

 

If they don't like it, don't buy it. But I don't care what's missing? Reusing old things How much is it now that I bought it? waiting for fun from the route

 

Oh my what a silly people here.... There is nothing known only a fiew small words by the devs without any picture is shared.... Please wait until you have seen the preview or better when you have test it by youre own! When its not matching what you expect you can refund it.... So for me this discussion is not necessary!

 

"82, take it or leave it"...

 

JD and Matt revealed to us the time table . You can look for yourself. So all this is based on facts that we have received fromDTG

 

You are correct . I have a choice……I also have a choice to inform players how the US content is always lacking

 

That’s great. And you have your opinion and I have my. Judging by the numbers 75% agree the route needs improvement

 

That's not the complete list of complainments here.... What i have noticed is a discussion about the quality of the route

Besides the fact that other routes have more AI trains, there may also be other reasons why it is not included in this route and that will not be just like that. And it only concerns a small part of the route, so not a big deal for me. I think it's all getting pretty exaggerated.

There is a good chance that the gen 8 consoles are not suitable for this and that results in other problems.

 

You want promises from DTG and expect them to be kept? Let's settle down and get a grip on reality.

 

Thex

For me DTG really crossed the line here. Enough is enough. Im glad to pick up the content on sale season, last year most releases were day 1.

 

The phenomenon you speak ofI only seems to exist on US content. You might not be well informed on what the issues are and facts that have been brought foward to this thread. I suggest you take a look at previous comments.

 

Very simple... Don't spill your money is my advice

 

I'm sorry but I don't have to do anything and especially not that I have to read such nonsense here... I'm just saying.... if you don't like it... Don't waste your money

 

I think people have made their point that they will not be wasting their money on lacklustre content. However it doesn't mean they dislike the hobby. They are passionately voicing their VALID OPINIONS in an effort to get DTG to LISTEN and IMPROVE the product that THEY DO WANT TO BUY AND ENJOY.

 

All I can say is that these discussions are pointless and never have been. Anyway I say good luck opening these kinds of topics

 

I agree if the timetable isn't busy and isn't representative it is a let down., LIRR is a case in point, that should be so much busier.

However we haven't seen any screenshots of the route yet so it is a little premature to be assuming the route isn't going to look good. Maybe the word "polishing" which I believe Matt used to describe the work on NY Penn, is an understatement or the wrong word to have used. It might look a lot better than many of here are imigaining when we actually see it in the sim.

 

I guess you're right. Only one opinion is ever valid. There should be no discussion or opposing views on anything on this planet as they are pointless. Please direct us on the correct path so that we may conform to your ultimate direction and intellect oh savior of saviors.

 

Exact! Precisely it is about assumptions and things insinuated and cleverly used for mood-making