Nothing Is Going To Change, That Much Should Be Obvious Now.

Again and again DTG sit down on a stream, go all serious like and talk about the state of TSW, saying things like “we know it’s not been good, we will be working to improve it”. Yet after all these years nothing has changed and I don’t think it ever will.

The overall quality of DLC is just as bad as it was 5 years ago. Back then we could say it’s still early days, but there’s just no excuse anymore. It’s clear TSW is about making as much money as possible. So everyone knows, it’s not the devs or QA at fault, it’s upper management. So please remember not to slate Matt/JD etc about it because it’s out of their hands.

I don’t care about some fancy new clouds or passengers wearing ridiculous clothes when trains physics, sounds, gameplay and content quality are still just comically bad.

If we never get an editor, I don’t even think the third party will be able to keep the game going because the rate of quality content will be so slow. (I don’t even want to include Rivet anymore, They have proven to be just as incapable as DTG).

i really really hope SimRail or some other train simulator will come along and throw TSW out of the water, because DTG need a serious kick up the behind. We can’t keep accepting the poor quality content. And by that I don’t mean moan about it but buy it anyway, just stop buying into it full stop.

If you want proper simulation, I think it’s time you gave up with Train Sim World. It will always be sub par.

 

I agree with the rest of the post, but truth be told, Matt IS executive producer for Train Sim World.

No hate or anything personal towards Matt whatsoever. He’s passionate about trains and Train Sim World, but as executive producer he’s gotta have at least some “say” in stuff.

 

That's what I do not understand either. It's not like they have EA or any other publisher sitting above them. As far as I know, they should be calling the shots themselves.

 

At this point though I would really love to have a QA session with people ABOVE Matt as well. So far Matt is the highest management we've interacted with (apart from the CEO in one article talking about what steam he wants...). If it's their decision, let them come to present the decision to us. At the very least it would be entertaining.

 

Agreed and JD is a director and where I work Directors have more than a say too. My personnel opinion, I wonder how much say these people have Investments - Alcuin Capital Partners, London UK

 

I enjoy TSW very much but of late things do seem to have taken a downward turn. The price increase, the one route, one train policy. New UK steam route which goes from nowhere to nowhere.

As regards the US specifically, I dusted off Run 8 last night and had a great time. T he new Fitzgerald sub for the South East area is rumoured to not be far off and will give a 200 mile route, all sorts of industry including quarry complexes for, presumably, 40 bucks. So I can see where my hobby spend is likely earmarked.

 

Investors have the final say.

 

[Removed - Alex - Inappropriate Content]

 

[Removed - Alex - Inappropriate Content]

 

How have we got to the point where naming senior members of DTG is deemed appropriate? What is that going to achieve?

 

Can you maybe explictily say, what bugs exactly do you mean? I mean, it's easy to write and read that 'everthing' is just bad, but if you support your claim with exampled it would first of all help me understand more your position and second - by stating what exactly is problematic, chances are good, that this issue is forwarded to the devs.
If you say "train x, route y, service z has problem a, b, c" etc, it can get fixed. If you just rant and more or less say "it's all LOVE", it will never get better. What exactly is wrong?

And in the last 5 years, there were indeed some very good DLCs. The BR 401 is a well done train. Kassel-Würzburg as well. Dresden-Riesa is an awesome route and suuuuch a big difference to e.g. Rapid Transit. Sure, they also had some bugs, but tell me one game that has been released without bugs? Just one.

I do. They look fancy and so much better than TSW2. It's a great addition and I wouldn't want future routes missing this feature.

We have an unofficial editor, and as the author of it wrote in a forum post very recently, the download numbers are not very high. Maybe because it's very complex and a fulltime job to work with the editor (that's what TSG said in the german forum).

Can you elaborate that point? I missed the point, what exactly a community editor, 3rd parties and "keep the game going" means, perhaps? What's connecting each of them with each other?

SimRail is already there and I don't see that TSW is thrown out of the water. Maybe it's a very different target group. There might not be so much interest of polish people into TSW and also not so much interest of TSW players into polish stuff. Of course, i agree that competition can be great (SimRails MP has big potential). But let's see what their editor is capable of. Because if SimRail stays polish-only, it will neither harm nor benefit TSW, imo.
And I don't think another TrainSimulator is in development. After all, it's very niche. So i'm happy we have three train sims (TSC, TSW, SimRail), which are all three very nice in some aspects, a little faulty in other's. And with constructive feedback - sending tickets, specifiying problems on the forums - we can help make it better. Because imo, TSW is not the same as 5 years before. It changed a lot.

 

To put the blame where it belongs. TSW's problems are not due to Matt, or JD, or Adam, or Alex. They are due to the top level of management, emphasizing regular income stream over quality.

 

American and German content is already confirmed for SimRail.

Hopefully the editor, multiplayer, third party content, and the console release that SimRail brings will make it a major competitor to TSW. Competition is healthy for both games.

 

I don't see that at all.

Some of the recent releases have had a few issues but overall I would say routes since TSW2 in particular have been of better quality overall, especially recent routes like Bremen and Cross City.

If the quality is that bad why are you even using TSW?

Yes hopefully Simrail, which currently I have no interest in but may do in the future, will concentrate minds at DTG into trying to release routes with less bugs and maybe giving us a little more as in route length which I do feel is still lacking in some routes with odd end points.

 

You don’t know that for certain. The bosses may want much more for TSW and the staff they have just aren’t good enough lol. I do know that if it wasn’t for the people named in the posts above and Paul Jackson of course there wouldn’t be DTG, TSC or TSW and everybody would be forced to play Trainz. I know, horrifying isn’t it.

Do we really need to blame any individuals? Maybe it’s the community not buying enough DLC. If everyone bought everything DTG would have more money to develop better products, Ooh, curveball. We get what we want, the bosses at DTG still get lots of lovely money.

We actually have no right to tell DTG what to do. It’s not an essential service they are providing and we all have the choice to leave it well alone if we wish. There appears to be some hope in this thread that DTG will go out of business when SimRail takes over. That is a train simulator that will suffer from the same issues they all do. If that doesn’t last we’ll all be back playing Trainz again. Aarrggghhh.

There have been better discussions on how TSW can be improved, this one is just slinging mud.

Long live DTG and all who work there!

 

I think when things start getting personal and individuals are being bought into the discussion it is the start of a slippery slope and rather unedifying.

Certainly things aren't perfect and I have certainly found much to complain about over the last couple of years but overall the sim is nowhere near as bad as some are decrying it to be, or I am playing a different one.

 

And what will blaming them achieve?

 

Sim Rail would be nice but it's not a option for 2/3 of us.(I been informed there's might be a change about this news) multiplayer only?

This may be a possible option but only for PC'er many people also play on console and unless sim rail could come also to console which probably won't happen,we console players are stuck with DTG TSW and they know it,since they have no competition on console when it comes to a train sim game like theres.They can crank out sub par efforts knowing those who want train action will buy it because like tiny tim they will go back again and again and ask for more of the same grul because that's whats in the pot and there still hungry for whatevers being served up at the time.

 

The lack of communication from them says all you need to know

 

Well maybe some users should exercise more restraint and take some responsibility for how they spend their money?

When TSW first started I bought everything but that soon stopped, now I am much more circumspect about what I purchase.

 

Simrail is coming to console.

 

Exactly. DTG are not a charity.

 

It is. Along with American and German third party content

 

Ok but which console and which generation?There may still be a light at the end of the tunnel for some of us after all. Maybe not if it's multiplayer only.

 

It does baffle me that Matt is a HUGE railfan and lets this standard of quality be released, perhaps he is more fond of the job now than his passion.

 

Next gen only on both xbox and playstation

 

Gen 8 and Gen 9. Playstation and Xbox. As to when it will come out is anyone's guess

 

Even if he could do all he can and push for it to be the best route there is, there are still deadlines and decisions have to be made. Can't always have everything.

 

I highly doubt Matt is the number one source of the problem at all. He might be executive producer of Train Sim World, but it’s completely unfair to point the finger directly at him when we don’t know anything about the inner workings of DTG at all.

 

And here we go............

 

I can't wait for the article tomorrow for the passenger content. See if any changes. probably none ,zero. . I can see it now......

 

Having been in a position of being responsible for a customer facing service which was not of a quality I was comfortable with, at a price point higher than DTG's DLC, with great impact on the individuals concerned, and which was not in the power of operational or senior managers to change, I have every sympathy for anyone at DTG who is accountable for the areas under discussion on these forums.

 

This is about what i would expect
1st Upgrade from TSW2 to TSW3 to get TSW2 fixes for your TSW2 DLC.(We all know how well that tends to go)
or
2nd Upgrade from PS4/XBox One to PS5/XBox Series X/S to get SIM RAIL,I know things a more expensive now a days but this is just getting ridiculous.
At his rate some might end up in the poorhouse with tiny tim.

 

Tbf Xbox One and PS4 are a decade old give or take. PS5 and Xbox Series have been out for 2 years, it’s unreasonable to expect SimRail on outdated consoles that probably wouldn’t be able to handle the game.

 

What's a bit funny is that we had open letter to dtg threads several months ago where players would blame the executives for the issues that were riddling tsw2 at the time and now here we are with tsw3 with players again blaming executives for the issues in this game and messy releases of the two previous dlc's.

I guess things never do change

 

Don't compare SimRail and TSW. SimRail is only for multiplayer, it's empty for single-player mode.

But I really enjoy SimRail but when I "just" want to drive trains and have a wide variety of gameplay, I come back to TSW.

 

If this is the case how much longer do those still on 8 gen playing TSW have before DTG says well time to move on to gen 9 only and leave gen 8 and there still broken dlc behind.So only gen 9 will get new pre broken dlc routes and locos,that DTG will have to charge more for to make up for the lost revenue from the abandoned gen 8 players.

 

SimRail won't be getting a penny off me until they announce and release some UK content as that's where my interest lies. Multiplayer isn't a selling factor for me as someone who prefers solo experiences. I also don't think it's anywhere near the DTG/TSW killer some make it out to be. If SimRail does turn out to be anything of a threat to DTG (and that's a big IF), then the competition might result in higher quality products on release from DTG due to the pressure.

While TSW isn't perfect, I don't think it's as bad as it's made out to be by a long stretch. For example, I don't think Edinburgh - Glasgow should've been released in the condition it was, DTG should have forced Rivet to push it back. The features and fixes in the upcoming patch IS how it should of released in the first place with a better sounds update following, assuming ScotRail gives them permission to do a recording trip.

On the other hand, Birmingham Cross City is a brilliant route. There's a few fair criticisms like the Redditch branch scenery and bugs with GSM-R but overall, I think driving the 323 is a fantastic experience. The unit feels good, controls are smooth, sounds nice. If Cross City is the quality bar for future UK add-ons from DTG, I'd be happy with that so long as it's not always a one train per route matter.

DTG's German output is also very solid. I can't wait for all this older traction! The 110 on BRO is great fun

As for US content, I admittedly don't know enough about American railroads to be able to tell how routes or rolling stock should be. I enjoy driving the F7 on Cajon Pass despite others on the forums disliking it for being unrealistic. I'm also looking forward to the new NEC route & Acela despite the timetable feedback. If the timetable gets improved, that's great for US fans and obviously better than what it is currently but for me, I'll still happily play it as is.

 

The problem with TSW concern is the "speed" to fix bugs, if they are fixed.

Some recent examples:
- BR 182 Dispolok, totally bugged for more than 4 months and no communication for fixes;
- Boston Sprinter: 1 year and a half to correct the ACES (!);
- Harlem Line: more than 10 months with major signaling problems;
- Sursee-Luzern (from Rivet Games): still a lot of bugs and no patches for 10 months.

These are bugs that spoil the gameplay and prevent us from playing properly.

Personally, I stop buying on D-Day:
- I'm waiting to see reviews of "neutral" players and Youtube/Twitch lives;
- if DLC bugged, I don't buy and wait for fixes. If no fix, I keep my money. For me, this is the best solution and it avoids possible frustration. And at the same time, it shows the publisher that if the quality is not there, they won't have my money (if it sells very well despite major bugs, no improvements will be made in the future).

It's not all black and gloom on TSW, we've had some great DLC recently: BR 110 and n-Wagens, Birmingham Cross-City, Rail Head Treatment Train, "new" Southeastern Highspeed, Kassel-Würzburg, ICE 1. Let's not forget also the free updates like on the Hamburg-Lubeck route (just great, thanks to DTG for that).

 

I'll believe all of that when i see it. Right now it's an MP game with Polish trains and routes, which is fine, but why do we believe pie-in-the-sky promises from another dev? Do we not learn from TSW?

 

We’ve seen bits and pieces of the American route already.

 

Searchlight Simulations, probably one of the best 3rd Party devs for TSC, will probably be involved in the route.

 

That all sounds great, and i did purchase SimRail, so i want it to succeed, but honestly I enjoy it less every time i play it.

I'm happy to wait until there's many more updates and new content to revisit it again.

 

I'll add one more to this routes issues the M7A unit uncouple switch hasn't worked from day 1 and dispite all the times it been mention it still has never been fixed.I know it may not be on the same level as signaling but that doesn't mean it should never be delt with as well.

 

There is no doubt - none at all - about Matt's passion for trains and train simming. He unquestionably wants TSW to be the best it can possibly be.
We also know that TSW's devs are capable of superb work. We have seen it: trains like the 323, timetables like London-Brighton, scenery like Tharandter Rampe, on and on, all the pieces are there so we know the capacity is there.

So why is NY-Trenton so underwhelming? Why such a half-assed effort? Because it was placed under budget and deadline constraints which made it impossible to do a decent job, much as Matt and the dev team could have and would have, had they been allowed to. And the budgets and deadlines come down from the top.

 

So our options are....
bring up concerns and buy the product
bring up concerns don't buy the product.
wait until is fix and then buy the product.
stay quiet and buy the product
stay quiet and don't buy the product.

At the end not sure what best action to take for DTG to hopefully improve the quality
Any ideas?

 

For the sake of a thought experiment, let's assume for a second that's true, thing is that would still be a massive failing on the part of leadership. If you had a situation where all the people they had hired were underqualified fools, unable to program or model anything competently, that would be one of the biggest failing a leader could have. One of the most important bits of their job is to supervise and analysis their employees performance and output. Complete failure on that front is complete failure of the management, no matter what redeeming qualities the people leading it may otherwise have.

 

At the end of the day it's simple Project Management.

Each DLC will be treated as a project with resources allocated to it and a budget.

When the budget is exhausted you have to make the DLC saleable. This will be why routes don't have certain features that any of us might wish for.

If you keep delaying it and using more resources this is going to eat into profits. Ultimately you will have less money to invest in producing new DLC and we all miss out. The trick is to make the most saleable DLC at the lowest possible price.

I'm sure that the management at DLC are more experienced than any of us at setting budgets and deciding prices.

It's obviously more nuanced than that, but the fact that DTG continue to produce DLC that people want to buy at an impressive frequency suggest that they are getting most things right.

 

I’ve been around long enough to know that Matt shares his father Peter’s passion for trains and train simulation. I imagine it’s commercial pressures that cause the issues, not a lack of passion

 

People keep saying Cross City is really good. I’m baffled by this. Why is it good? It’s mediocre at best, large swathes of it are utter rubbish. Are we now that blindsided by an included train not being totally awful that the whole DLC then becomes good by definition?

A few issues;

- the lighting is awful in so many respects
- the eye adaption is set up incorrectly (the worst example since TSW3 released), and the overall environment is far too bright. Tunnel lighting is broken
- There is no occlusion, particularly in the cab. It’s often painful to look at
- chunks of the scenery are/were missing (branch line), not complete (New street) or just plain ridiculous (the canal tunnels)
- The second biggest city in the country and surrounding areas are pitch black at night
- The route is totally dead with no life and very little in the way of traffic
- Even after the patch the collectibles don’t work. Collectibles are awful in my eyes, but if you’re going to insist on including them for God’s sake at least have them work
- The passengers are non-existent and the trains are empty (except when they train is meant to be empty then they are exactly where they shouldn’t be)
- The GSM-R is an insult
- Many of the services are copy and paste

That’s just off the top of my head not having played the route for a couple of months. Many of the issues were masked by the available mod. It is not a good route, but it is an indication of just how low standards have fallen that this is viewed as ok. Unquestionably it is worse (in value and quality) than GWE. Where are the 5 years of progress?