Dtg Stream About Your Route Suggestions

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by chieflongshin, Feb 16, 2023.

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  1. It would be interesting to see what their thoughts are

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  2. Not fussed what they think of suggestions

    8.1%
  1. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Hi all

    I was thinking about something today and just wondered what other people's thoughts are. There's a lot of feedback at the moment about route suggestions , what's looked at, what's considered etc and then questions about whether they get looked at.

    I was thinking it might be interesting to have a stream going over route suggestions, either
    • how do DTG manage that forum
    • What % get looked at
    • How do you get to the table of discussion
    • talk through some live examples (NYC or new German routes)
    • talk through some that got chopped and why.
    • talk through some that were selected from forum, how they made it into publishing.share the post. Show the community what you look at/for.

    I believe and I'm open to be corrected that the suggestions forum is a filing cabinet that's never spoken of with the community. Should this be changed.....

    Would a stream like this intrigue you?
     
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  2. sophieclarke1983

    sophieclarke1983 Well-Known Member

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    Definitely it’s a awesomeness idea
     
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  3. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Would be an interesting stream & something different.

    I can only imagine the hysteria it would cause though and I can see why DTG wouldn’t want to go in-depth on the topic.
     
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  4. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Well-Known Member

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    Great idea! It's a shame that they can't go into too much detail about licenses for business reasons, but the more they can say to steer people toward making viable suggestions and away from pointless ones, the better.
     
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  5. matt#4801

    matt#4801 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, it would be interesting to see how the route selection process works and how much of a role our suggestions play.
     
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  6. olly.smail

    olly.smail Well-Known Member

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    this would be so so so cool, would love to see dtg do this
     
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  7. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    If they do such a stream, I fear the response will be the same as it always is; all new trains and routes would be nice but there's only a finite amount of time to develop them. Combine this with needing to find content that fits in with licensing restrictions and development deadlines narrows down the list of possibilities further. They also cannot really give any definite hints of certain routes being more likely than others to appear (apart from what is obvious) without giving away too much information.
     
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  8. TrainGeek08

    TrainGeek08 Well-Known Member

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    It would be a good idea to see which suggestions are put through, and do more detailed suggestions attract DTGs attention than simpler ones, it would be a fascinating watch, get Matt and JD/Alex on if this was to occur :)
     
  9. elric#1386

    elric#1386 Well-Known Member

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    I'm with this. I think it is a great idea, as at the moment we have the Suggestions section.
    Yet when reading through it there is no hint, or acknowledgement to any of the threads from DTG with their thoughts on the suggested ideas.
    It makes me feel What's the Point?
    It really would be nice if someone at DTG, if only once a month during a live broadcast just acknowledges some of the suggestions, and gives us a answer 'Possible' or 'Not Possible' because of....
     
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  10. olly.smail

    olly.smail Well-Known Member

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    tbh, i feel like doing teaser videos like rivet did for e-g actually hype up the community a lot lot more than if they don’t do them if that makes sense, i saw a lot of positive feedback on rivets youtube regarding the teaser videos and i think dtg should take this idea onboard too
     
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  11. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Sadly not as much as those posting detailed propositions might like to hope. Otherwise we would have all sorts of iconic routes for the UK alone in the game by now. I guess BCC and the upcoming West Rhine have cropped up a few times, but most weeks see at least one ECML and WCML pop up and there's not a sniff of either being made for the game.
     
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  12. matt#4801

    matt#4801 Well-Known Member

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    Yes if they do use the suggestions it would seem to be cherry picked as to what they want to do ,or as you say we would have the ECML, WCML and GEML for example.
     
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  13. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    Better teasers would be great, I just don't think they'll talk about specific routes they have intentions to make before they are set in stone. Some generalised feedback on which sort of suggestions are more likely to influence content choice would be welcome though.
     
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  14. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    DTG JD as stream guru, is there any mileage in this for you?

    Not looking for leaks, just process info and maybe recent examples that made it into dev and how from a suggestion
     
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  15. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    So, Matt actually flagged this thread to me yesterday. I'm conflicted - I think we'd need to discuss how we'd do it, because I don't think it's massively helpful for anyone for us to run through why 'X route isn't possible', or 'Y route has these issues'. It might end up being quite a negative stream if we're not careful.

    It is a challenge, and this is why we have a small group of individuals in-house who curate and determine our route choices, as there are a lot of factors.

    In theory, I like the idea - and I know DTG Alex wanted to do something similar a little while back. Let me take it away - I'm not promising anything, and it likely won't be in the next few weeks - but we'll have a think about how it might work.
     
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  16. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    My thoughts If it adds to the idea pool

    • How and why did the suggestion forum come about
    • How do DTG monitor it
    • Is everything printed off or collated to a sift panel
    • What determines how far it goes , is it the level of detail in the post initially or player engagement?
    • How does a post go from the forum to become more of a wider discussion where the team investigate it more ?
    • What considerations are made, is it as simple as length , stock, licensing, assets in stock, dev time
    • Are there other factors at play?
    • Does DTG block third parties that may want to do a similar route or is that unheard of as yet because you all have different visions
    Are there any examples of previous forum posts that directly contributed to a route being built, what got it over the line?
    • Do DTG communicate with people whose routes have been selected for further info under NDA?
    • With the recent NYC feedback, how are timetables and stock equated in.
    That's my initial thoughts. Pitching the stream as more of a behind the scenes at DTG.

    From a point of view of the stream itself, perhaps a ticker at the bottom stating all discussion on the steam is illustrative. If it was all on legacy posts that could be one way of managing based on routes out that may have been chosen due to the suggestion forum.



    (On a tangent, I keep an eye on DTG careers being in HR myself and talent, what about a day in the life at DTG/behind the scenes stream e which doubles up as a recruitment piece for you too. I think a lot of people would find it interesting. That and the above could make a unique engagement stream)

    Just a thought.... thank you :cool:
     
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  17. DTG Alex

    DTG Alex Community Manager Staff Member

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    It's a good list of suggestions chieflongshin, and I am glad to be working on helping this become a relaity because it was one of the first things I'd set myself to explore with the community!

    I'll have a think about a structure for a stream we could host in the near future :)
     
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  18. TrainGeek08

    TrainGeek08 Well-Known Member

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    Would love to see what you come up with Alex ;)
     
  19. zappatime

    zappatime Well-Known Member

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    Surely DTG have a mass of data on which routes already modelled in TSC did well/were very popular, as a starting point? They would also already have a lot of base reference information for creating the route in TSW, or that could involve 3rd parties if they were the original route creators. At the end of the day, there’s so many routes people want to see happen that are very unlikely to see the light of day without a route editor/creator utility. There’s a lot of talent out there laying dormant, talent that showed what it could create with an editor in TSC.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2023
  20. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I've said this before, but the suggestions forum really needs a new impulse. It has been neglected and quality has dropped, with more and more 'one-sentence' suggestions being made. Two years ago it was way different. If it has a new impulse quality will rise again, and so will the viewership of the suggestions. That again will stop suggestions disguised as other post types from cluttering up the discussion forums.

    I think this impulse can and should be given by DTG offering some insight into what they do with those suggestions in a more specific way than 'we look at them and take them into consideration'. Give us a stream where you walk through which suggestions played into the decision to make a certain route (just take us through an already released route as an example). That, I think, would help give people the feeling of being listened to in the suggestions forums. People will need to understand that the routes they suggest will rarely be directly copied and produced for TSW, but see that the type of content they suggest plays an actual role in the decision making process. And I think saying that they do isn't cutting it, give an actual past example of the decision making process for a route, and people will perhaps start taking the suggestions forum more serious again.

    I think we're all really curious in seeing the factors that play into those decision. What elements of what suggestions or wishes were taken into consideration? Has DTG ever looked at the forum and seen a suggestion which they thought would be a perfect fit for the current demand (i.e. were there ever any forum suggestions that directly lead to the developement of a specific route, or are they only used as an indication of demand?).

    On a personal note I'd also be really interested if my Pegnitztalbahn suggestion was looked at before DTG decided to make this route for TSC (and perhaps TSW in the future? :)). That of course is very personal for me, but the timeframe seems to match that of a normal route decision making process as hinted to on streams, and the selection of content is a nearly 100% match for what I suggested. That is not something I totally expect an answer on though.

    The suggestions forums also need a bit stricter moderation I think, and some guidelines for suggestions to help people get more than one sentence in a post, but that is a bit more off topic for this thread, and I made a thread for that a long time ago.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2023
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  21. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

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    Do you guys remember the development streams we got a while back? I believe there was one about scenery creation, and one about scenario design.
    What if this route suggestion stream was sort of themed like that: “Developer Insight: How we select and conceptualize our routes

    You could invite a developer who is part of the route selection team, and perhaps also somebody who is tasked with doing early research and planning after a route is selected. With the help of some examples from the past, you could present the whole process chronologically.
     
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  22. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Teasers that are improved and also thoughts to show why they made it
     
  23. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    One approach would be in advance to launch a Suggested Routes For The Stream Thread- then from that select maybe 10 or a dozen which are plausible and might be worth considering in future. Then the stream could be "these are the features that make this route attractive- but these factors would be challenges." Don't do negative commentary on the un-plausible routes, just pass over them in silence. Although modeling the Orient Express ca. 1925 from Paris to Istanbul would be supercool, there's no point explaining why it can't happen.
     
  24. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    I would love to see how route selection works and why some more requested routes haven’t been considered to train sim world
     
  25. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    I think honest is better description than negative. If there are some routes which are really often suggested and you know that for one reason or another it cannot be made, then why not say so? If the suggestion of infeasible projects could be cut down then more of the suggestions might get made and people would see the linkages more clearly between the forums and the content. Its about getting people on the same page so everyone understands the parameters.
     
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  26. mariussoare_84

    mariussoare_84 Well-Known Member

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    I'd rather want them to have an approach like Rockstar has. Complete silence and one day release a truly genre defining product.
    Then no one will care about how and why but instead enjoy the experience.

    JD is right, it can easily turn into a negative stream because each suggestion comes from the heart. People make suggestions cause they are emotionally attached to a place, and it's easy to offend someone when you say we care more about this than yours for whatever reason.

    If they truly need our help, they'll ask for it. But there are so many legendary locations, even in the three countries that they focus on, that it will take a long time to exhaust them all at the current release rhythm.
     
  27. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Has left the building Staff Member

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    Since you flagged this one in another thread, Chief
    There's an element of practicality and one of inevitability about it.

    If you ever watch one of our streams you'll see that in every single one there'll be at least half a dozen people asking for a particular route or locomotive. This is inevitable, and there's nothing wrong with it. After all, everyone will have a route they'd love to be have the game. The same thing would be true on the forums were we not to provide a single place for suggestions to be made. You can see how popular that forum is. Simply put, if we didn't already provide it we'd have to provide it.

    On a practical note it allows Matt and the team an easy place to check for possible routes and gauge interest when we're considering something new.
     
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  28. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    But my question about suggestions is, sometimes do the devs see the elephants in the room (e.g the most suggested routes and locos on the forums) and how/why they can be done or can’t be done, for example now one of the most suggested routes on the forum is the ECML, we have the GTR/GN license and we have one of the trains (and another one pending release which is the 700) and etc, it’s been a lingering thing, what’s stopping it from being implemented into the game, and etc. even acknowledging routes like these really improves suggestions so people know what suggestions to make. And also analysing routes that sold the most in TSC and putting them under consideration for development in TSW, and giving an accurate way on how to make valid suggestions, these would all really help answer the questions that a lot of people have about route suggestions
     

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