Ny-trenton: Usa Content Is Still Severely Flawed

Just finished watching most of the stream, here are some of my thoughts:

- Really enjoyed Brandon's interesting and highly-enthusiastic contribution to the stream. His dedication to make TSW even better is fantastic and I really hope he, and others like him, will continue with such in the future as it's things like this which makes the game even better.

- Acela looks great, will bring some really interesting gameplay to both routes - although, from the preview, I notice some flickering cab textures in the cab which may be a bit annoying. On the subject of Acela, very glad to finally see more loco DLC again which I think is really important for existing TSW routes/content to give them a fresh, new lease of life for timetable and gameplay.

- Boston with new lighting/skies looks great and really awesome to see on older routes, now please let London Commuter and Dresden-Riesa follow suit!

- First impressions of NY-Trenton: Penn looked very quiet and I noticed during the stream an AI train was clipping through the pillars, but no mention of it or whether this will be fixed in a post-patch?

- I think personally the NY-Trenton route does look very nice, especially the catenary. While it's a huge shame there isn't as many services/AI traffic as there could be, which I think is quite unacceptable compared with previous timetables from past routes i.e. Rush Hour etc, however there were actually more trains encountered throughout than what I initially expected, so that's a plus.

- I like the service variety with NY-Trenton - especially Acela and longer duration NJT stopping services which last almost 1hr 30mins - which increases replayability in the long-term. Also, an important point which makes routes like this more interesting to me is having more than one loco - which newer modern UK routes need to learn following Cross City and E-G. But, what I will say is if the NY-Trenton route ever gets more NJT and even LIRR traffic etc then I reckon this route would be very special alongside the likes of London Commuter.

- I must say, overall, this whole preview was going to be very important to whether the content was worth getting. Acela is a must for me as I quite liked the Boston route regardless - as with the other Rush Hour routes - but what surprised me is that after the preview I'm very tempted to get the NY-Trenton route soon too as I can see having a lot of enjoyment here and reminds me of Peninsula Corridor which I loved back in the day.

- On a final note, what I want more from DTG in the future are more routes that interlink with each other as part of a wider network so we can have the same services seen across several different routes - Acela is a fantastic example of this and really adds to the immersion of going all the way from Boston to Trenton etc, so more NEC routes please!

 

I didnt feel the need to bring up the cab conformity issues mid-stream since we're aware of them internally. Good catches though. Thank you =)

 

I think it's always looked pretty busy around Boston South approach and throat during Rush Hour because services from off - route MBTA lines coming in and out were included as AI.

 

Good summary, that’s what I’m taking away from the stream as well.
Seriously considering getting NY-Trenton and possibly the Acela if I really end up liking the route and desire even more service variety.

 

Took the words right out of my mouth. The was the first Rush Hour route and I remember positioning myself on the platform and being awed by the number of services coming and going. The Acela only adds this.

 

Agree. In my opinion this should be priority #1. This could set the future of all future routes. I mean is so frustrating because I know the talent is there. We just need a commitment from DTG to say, “we hear you and acknowledge your concerns. We are going to make it right”

 

Absolutely agree with you on this - a decent timetable can make a good route a great route, and a great route (in terms of gameplay from more branches, more locos/services, an interesting route which isn't boring to play etc) to an amazing route.

A rich timetable which has a varied service variety from ones that last a few minutes up to an hour really add to the immersion and busyness of an overall route - add more locos and it's a win-win. For DTG, their main objectives for a new route's timetable must importantly:
- Offer freshness and long-term replayability
- Try to be as busy as the real-life route where applicable
- Variety of long and short services, with added variety of ECS, depot moves etc
- Use as much existing TSW content such as locos where applicable i.e. no one-loco routes or empty large stations

To me, timetables are the most important aspect of any route - I don't want to use scenario planner.

 

100% agree!!

I think sometimes the devs are a little too reliant on Scenario Planner to fill in the gaps- even if it had more pathing options and an actual consist editor, there's a huge section of the community that has no interest in those tools.

I've said it so many times, but timetable mode is TSW's selling point- every route should start with a rock-solid timetable (busy or not, depending on the route).


I won't speak for others but i want to drive trains, not moonlight as a software developer lol!

 

100% agree. I’m hoping they listen to the community

 

I believe these part of a long standing issue, it’s not on all but a lot of locos/cab cars. Not always in the same place for each, turns out the monitor is the Acela’s by the looks of it.

Same issue with a similar American loco is it’s on the in cab signal aspect display panel on the ACS-64 for another example

 

Well. I have watched the stream to Newark Airport so far. Even knowing beforehand about all the timetable and AI issues, the sheer emptiness was still a shock. It might be interesting for some to drive the different locos up and down the line; in this sense, you could probably say that the route has value in a fun, but fictional, sense. However, if you consider this as the the train simulation representation of the actual rail line between Trenton and NYP, then it is not fit for purpose. So it all depends on what you are looking for, and there are probably some routes that I enjoy that are rather unrealistic but it doesn't bother me, because I'm not aware of it. However, I would be hard pressed to describe any TSW route that is farther from the actual thing, than this one is, except the original NY Gateway that this one is based off of, which of course also came out much earlier in the TSW life cycle. For where we are at right now with TSW3, to release a route like this? To me, it is inexcusable, and deadline or no, I would not have released it like this. If it was this difficult for DTG to even get this many services onto the route, it is hard to imagine them putting in the work to get enough additional services on to make a difference, and in any case they have made no claims that any improvements will be made. I am truly very sorry, I have no intent to degrade others and I'm sure that people did put work into this route, but to me, this time, it really is that bad.

 

I haven't read thru all the replies, but wanted to comment on the PIS thing. I remember they asked for feedback or references to add and I even took some videos and such and share them but they only complained that the ones that are along the nec always said train approaching because they only wanted train information references. Again I also shared the newer mbta signs they have slowly added to the mbta lines in the last year or so but didn't get much update on that. Again I know it's a lot of work and the Boston and Providence segment technically has 3 different kind of PIS, Amtrak ones at Amtrak stations and now mbta ones and warning ones at places like Mansfield. But to not even try to make a single one. And again to not try to make anything new for again a price increase route just seems lazy. I said it once and I'll say it again, look at all the care and love truck simulator gets, I know there issues here and there but they try there best to make sure everything is like it should be, every release feels more and more lazy from dovetail, they couldn't even do the full route from NYC to Philadelphia like ts classic just that alone should be a massive complaint, I was hopeful when all the tsw3 routes where 80 miles + that would continue but I guess not. Do better dovetail.

 

It sure was. I’m from NY. So I’m very aware of the NEC. As you said.at this stage that we are in, 5 months into TSW3 for this to have come out is unacceptable. I’m mean 19 pages and counting. Is just frustrating,the potential is there to make this the best and busiest US route in the game.

 

I have to give them credit on the Boston route. I have done two services and the signaling works great. The approach into Boston at night looks fantastic. I’m loving the new Boston

 

WHY do we keep getting new features for the game that are completely dropped in the next release? It makes zero sense. There's no consistency from the perspective of a player, and doing this has to be a giant slap in the face to the devs who worked hard to get this working and right.

This is absolutely inexcusable. At this point in the game's lifetime, and especially for $40 USD, game assets clipping like that should not happen. The artist should've checked this when building (or modifying, since this is from years ago) the station. Everyone who signed off on that work should've checked it. Somebody in QA or the beta team should've noticed it. Since it's been there for 5 years, it should've been on "the checklist" - that is clearly becoming something that doesn't actually exist and explains why things get lost in the dirt for DTG and fixes never come...

 

Sehs had most of the trackwork laid out, so it's not like they had to remake the whole thing from scratch. So half was like already there and the other half was newly built. Catenary was remade, but it's not like they remade the original section from scratch.

Cajon was long cuz it was freight and there isn't much going on. However, the scenery was lower quality and some say it is worse than what tsc released with.

Skw was long cuz there was great demand for long high speed routes and the ice1. There are only 3 major stations, lots of tunnels and the scenery was mostly the same everywhere. And no, just cuz a 186km was made for 1 route, doesn't mean it's possible for every route. In reality, the length of the route depends on lots of factors.

So, in reality, a 80+ mile route is a time consuming process and much more complex. It's possible, but the average is about 50 miles currently

 

either a lack of time or not important or not easy to implement

 

Off topic Sherman Hill route new lighting looks amazing

 

After watching through the stream, my thoughts on it are, what’s there seems quite strong, I particularly like the changing scenery and definitely the variety of rolling stock to use. I still think it’s best for the route to have LIRR layers (I would say this for all routes if the loco is available in game) and I still have some worries as to how busy it will feel generally.

Overall quite positive.

going to try look more into the Acela being deciding further on it, im liking what’s shown so far but seems like I haven’t seen enough perhaps.

though I would like to add I haven’t found any thread dedicated to the usual get your questions in for the stream, perhaps I missed it though

Though if intentional I find the missing thread action along with how late we got a preview (not blaming illness that occurred of course, as that stream was already late in my opinion aswell) quite a worrying trend… that’s before counting all dlcs are shown in one (fair play for 3 hour+ stream I’ll add of course) and all are releasing together I find worrisome for potential mishaps (last ones just my perspective)

 

Pedel or Pedal?

 

ok so here we go. During the stream during the ALP-46 services I noticed a service from NY Penn station to South Amboy #3509. This service is actually not part of the NEC branch but is actually the north jersey coast line. So We didn't include all the services from the NEC branch but you through this service in? on top of that on this page I see 4 sunnyside yard moves , so this already drops the passenger services to 36? What a missed bag timetable is this?

 

Should be Pedal, though it wouldn’t shock me to know if it’s an American spelling difference

 

So far how realistic is the route scenery from NYC to Trenton? I don't know myself because I have never been on NJ Transit before.

 

This is all just a mess to me now. As a NJ native looking at the stream the amount of services make it look worse than it is on a Sunday.

 

The stations look nice, everything looks great but the static freight in some places (for example, some freight around Newark Liberty for the Conrail Lehigh Line, and the yard where a Turboliner is currently resting) don’t make it look realistic. And on top of that, the timetable makes Penn look bland, when in real life, Penn Station is BUSY with tons of trains everywhere, especially with the Long Island Railroad.

 

I liked the stream but I did not like the new route. On Trenton the trains look awesome like always but there is already so much wrong with this route. What's up with the pillars? If I was driving the train coming from the other side will the pillars go through my cabin? The scenery and lighting looks nice but if feels dead again.


But I do have to give a lot of praise for the commentary during the stream because I did learn a lot about trains.

 

Having watched this and reflected I think I'm sitting this content out. I "might" pick acela At some point to pad out boston but watching the new route all I could see myself and via the chat which wasn't addressed was the quietness of the route. Those empty 4 track areas just did nothing for me. Equally there's still no npc and there was one station last night I observed without a single passenger.

More money saved as this timetable thing is just not there for me now (but has been in past)

sorry

 

Same feeling here, I will get the Acela but as notes were still been taken about the quality of the new route during the live stream I think I will buy popcorn instead of the route and have an eye on the forum. I'm almost certain I'm gonna get more bang for my buck

 

One thing they didn’t show in the livestream preview yesterday was the approach into New York Penn, and Sunnyside Yard, where the bland scenery and the old NYC skyline would be shown.

Doing a short livestream for 3 new bits of content really is unacceptable, it barely gave enough time at all to showcase everything there is to see.

Before TSW 3, they used to do two full livestreams for each new bit of content. For example if a route was releasing on a Thursday, the two previous Thursdays would have livestream previews too. This gave a lot of time to preview the route. Boston’s previews back in 2021 had one full livestream dedicated to Amtrak, and one full livestream preview dedicated to MBTA.

They should go back to that way of doing preview streams.

 

Yeah, they're not daft..

 

I am sorry, but this still existing is insulting. NEC:NY was one of the oldest routes in the game and already there, this was mentioned as a problem. This is the THIRD release with this problem. Half a decade later, nobody can be bothered to fix clipping in this station? This more than proves the name of this thread. And it deserves to be mentioned again - THIS is for an increased DLC price.

For less than the price of this DLC, you can go to Steam, buy Hi-Fi Rush, and have some absolutely crazy fun with a BUGLESS product. And I don't mean it as "train sim fans, go play a rhythm game," but the price tags beg a comparison of how this can even happen when these DLCs are this expensive. Every route DLC is half of a AAA game in price. They have to deliver.

(Although, yeah... if you saved on Trenton, go treat yourself with Hi-Fi Rush, it is amazing, and you'll have 5 pounds/euros/dollars left also free on Game Pass)

 

From what I have seen, I will be waiting for a sale before getting Trenton. Not 100% convinced on the route as yet.

 

Alongside "pedel", I also liked it when Matt used the pantograph switch, the game awarded him for "using the headlights".

 

I was confused last night by the dead zones on the route.

A-talking about them when they're not in game.
B- Why was there catenary in said zones .



Have I missed something?

 

You still have catenary wires in dead zones, except they don't have electricity in them. I suppose they talked about them because visually they are still represented.

 

Not functional in game, but setting throttle to idle and opening the Main Circuit Breaker is just something you can do to enhance realism.

 

Happily picking this and Acela up today. That was the first live stream I've watched from start to end in nearly a year, a huge mark up in quality from recent streams, Matt was on point driving, JD was picking decent questions, and Brandon was providing endless insight that made the route come alive.

When I look at these 19 pages of rambling about how DTG doesn't care about US content, and then compare it to the obvious passion and interest in US content Matt and Brandon have, it's just another reason to write off most of the hand-wringing here. Nothing in the stream indicated this was some sort of drastic scale back of previous DTG releases, and I've no idea where the expectation came from that this had to be like BML, certainly nobody at DTG ever said that was the plan. There's an ok amount of traffic, could it be better? Yes. Could it be much better? Sure. Does "not as good as it could be" equate to "awful"? Absolutely not, otherwise nobody would actually be playing this video game.

There were a couple of familiar bugs, and that scenery collision isn't great, but none of those are particularly out of keeping with DTG's general quality, the pantographs and rear lights will probably be fixed quickly, the collision never. It is what it is.

For me, the important thing is the variety of services offered, and as far as I can see it has high speed, semi-highspeed, semi-fast, and slow stopping services. This variety is far more important to me than the absolute number of services, and the route itself looks more than good enough to make up for the gaps between oncoming trains. I hope it does get a better timetable one day, but I'm not gonna brood about it when I could be zooming up and down in Acela or trundling along in a brand new bi-level cab car. Sorrynotsorry.

 

I don't like that DTG haven't fixed these issues but tbh they never said they had or would.. They said that NY Penn was polished and that in my eyes isn't physically moving things, I could be wrong..

 

i dont get it...i just wanna buy the route but on steam i only can choose a bundle with boston which i already have....?

 

That is a pre-order bundle, it doesn't launch on Steam until later today, when you will be able to buy each part separately. Probably be like 7 or 8 hours from now.

 

It was impressive how much was shown in that time period I agree.

The Acela preview was really good, and the Sherman Hill liveries preview was good too, but Trenton could've shown more IMO, and probably should've been a separate stream.

My point was, if we look back at (for example) the Boston Sprinter previews a while ago, there was a 1h24m Amtrak preview stream on 5th August 2021, and a 1h33m MBTA preview stream on 12th August 2021. That totals just under 3 hours of preview streams for Boston alone. This is similar to a lot of other preview streams that took place before TSW 3, where there were always usually two preview streams a couple of weeks in advance of release.

Trenton should've gotten one ALP46 full run, one NJT Cab Car full run for one stream, and then another stream with the Amfleet Cab Car full run, and a Sunnyside yard depot service as well.

Nothing wrong really with the preview stream yesterday, it did show pretty much everything with the trains and such, and the questions being answered were good too, Brandon answering all the technical questions was also really good as well, but it's just a suggestion to consider going back to the "old way" of doing preview streams in the future (for route DLC).

 

again, it’s not QA at fault, I’m 99% sure they are aware of the issue. It’s just nobody is getting the time to fix it

 

I enjoyed the stream. The Acela looks great so I will certainly be getting it for the Boston Sprinter route. Also the new skies are a great improvement. I am very glad Brandon has overhauled the signalling too, it should be a very immersive route to drive now with quite a variety of traction.

The NEC route looks very good but I am afraid the trains clipping the pillars at NY Penn spoil that effect and that with the lacklustre timetable means the route will be a sale purchase at most at the moment. A shame as the NEC on TSC was a favourite of mine at the time.

 

If you keep this up, you could soon be an ambassador!

 

this has been raised. You get a bum deal

 

Yesterday it was one of the longest live streams ever. In Germany we have a one-hour time difference compared to the UK. So it went until almost half past eleven in the night. The American DoSto commuter trains with the TRAXX-like looking ALP-46 from NJT come across very well. Comparing this NEC route to that of 2018 is a big leap forward, and not just because of the volumetric clouds. I also found Brandon's insider infos very helpful. What I call something new is that the solar-powered spray devices have been set up in the winding areas of the track. There were also a lot of trains on the way, so that one can speak of a busy traffic. Conclusion: the Acela Express is a must-buy for me and NY-Trenton came across as convincing, even if the pantograph still needs to be fixed.

 

I see they still need to fix terrain specularity in TSW3 across the board, as the new lighting seems to have a bit of a speech impediment, turning grass into glass.