Ny-trenton: Usa Content Is Still Severely Flawed

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by TripleJ814, Feb 9, 2023.

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  1. I find the issues to not be a big deal, and it’s fine the way everything is

    17.1%
  2. I find the issues to be ridiculous and DTG needs to address this

    76.5%
  3. I have a differing opinion - it would be nice if you could reply to the thread explaining why

    6.4%
  1. Typhomat

    Typhomat Well-Known Member

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    A few things I've noticed so far

    1) It's Trenton Transit Center, not Centre. If we are making an effort to name German stations correctly, it we should do the same for American
    2) ACS-64 displays are washed out, just do the the ATC and ACSES tutorial to see this. Why have a tutorial when you can't read the signal displays it's supposed to highlight
    3) The ACS-64 has an issue with it saying Doors Open when the doors are closed
    4) In the ASES tutorial, the third voiceover 'ASES relays signal aspects and speed restrictions to the equipment in the cab. You should always follow in cab-signalling, even if you have not enabled positive of ASES' That doesn't make grammatical sense in American English
    5) When leaving Penn Station, the track speed is 15mph, but the signal speed is 20mph, and maximum authorized speed is stated as 20. The tutorials state sticking to the maximum authorized speed, which can be drastically higher than authorized track speed. Very confusing
    6) The ASES tutorial tells you to set the brake to SUPPRESSION when you have an alert, but the ALP-46 doesn't have a SUPPRESSION setting. Appears the tutorial was a copy/paste from the ATC/ACSES without any thought
    7) Like others have said, the route feels dead

    I'm sure there is much more, but if the team went the extra mile, that's probably meeting aggressive deadlines set by management and allowed this really spotty product through. Don't blame the developers, blame the leadership of TSW.
     
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  2. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Oh, please let's not go there again!!
     
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  3. necrailfan#8191

    necrailfan#8191 Member

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    YO THE X GAMES CAME TO TSW 3
     

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  4. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    If it's CWR (and the main line, at least, is), there won't be any 'clickety-clack.' That's caused by joints, which welded rail doesn't have.
     
  5. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    <facepalm>
     
  6. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    So how come in the real world we still hear the train rumbling through the rail, or any junction switch track?
     
  7. northeasttrainman

    northeasttrainman Active Member

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    I'll get into more detail on it over time. Overall I enjoyed it.
    One thing I noticed that's a bit defeating is the grade from the North River Tunnels into NYP.
    I was running the NJT 3914 timetable session and all was well until I got a stop signal on approach to Penn.

    When I released the brakes to proceed, the ALP-46 was stalled like a car in snow. The locomotive was pushing with all it had but it would NOT budge. When I tested and released the brakes to try the throttle again, it rolled BACK into the tunnel.

    Another AI train heading into Penn crept right up on the rear of my train. I had to quit the session.
    In real life, I've been caught behind stalled / broken down NJT trains heading into NYP from Jersey.
    So I wonder how frequent something like this is in real life. That grade is a tad steep for a 8-10 car multilevel train with ONE locomotive.

    Sidenote, the path around Newark Penn was weird.
    It switched me from Track 2 onto the Waterfront Connection track, then back over to Track 1 at the last second for no apparent reason.
     
  8. wcwood92

    wcwood92 Well-Known Member

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    Here's how I judge new routes in TSW.
    If I get to the end and I have a genuine itch to do it again.. it's a good route.
    Just finished my first run into NY Penn and I have that itch. Last time I had it on a first run was Cross City Line.

    I do have confidence that we'll see a busier timetable down the road.
    They just now seemed to properly implement ATC and ACSES. That's been a long time coming.
    I'd rather it be completely ironed out before they try to throw a million trains at it.
    What good is a million trains if you can't have a smooth run to see them all?

    History shows this with London Underground. And that was a similar holdup. They had to figure out multiple paths for terminating trains at Elephant and Castle. They did just that.
    Keep in mind there's no human dispatcher to intervene on any of these simulated routes.

    And speaking of trains.. I saw a bunch. WAY more than LIRR. I purposely ran at non peak hours just to see what the slowest period looked like. The LIRR comparison is way off.
    I honestly think this thread became an echo chamber once it took off. The OP typed the words "severely flawed" on February 9th for chrissake.. the NINTH! Come on...

    Bugs get fixed. There ain't a single piece of software in the world that doesn't release with bugs.

    This route goes down in the good book for me. And before you ask, no I don't put every single route down in that same book.
    Go ahead.. bite my head off if you want to. I'll be busy having more fun than you in my virtual Amtrak cab.

    Thanks DTG for bringing us more of the NEC.. a proper NEC experience. It's something I've wanted for a long time.
    Your passion is palpable.. yes I said it... they do have passion.
    The best routes always seem to age really well as the updates roll out, so I look forward to what comes.

    Cheers guys! Keep up the good work :)
     
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  9. TripleJ814

    TripleJ814 Well-Known Member

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    Flawed is just my opinion, and it seems some other people share that opinion too.

    I’ve been enjoying driving the route (and the nice modding opportunities too), but I will criticize the product and provide feedback, and based on what I’ve seen with the timetable, it is severely flawed (my opinion), and I made the thread to point it out to DTG that this route has a lot of room for improvement.

    I’ve been playing Train Sim World for years now, and based on prior issues, the only way DTG listens is if there’s enough people talking about the issue.

    I rated it a 5/10 on my steam review, so in no means am I saying that the product is complete garbage, not at all, I’m just saying it’s flawed and could be better.
    https://steamcommunity.com/id/TripleJ814/recommended/2182370/
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2023
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  10. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    And it seems that this even applies to the Heritage Pack if you look at the livery quality...
     
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  11. max#2873

    max#2873 Well-Known Member

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    I think that's how you should produce wines not games :D ;D
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2023
  12. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    we’re investigating this. As Brandon says, it appears this was there in an earlier build a week or so ago, so we’ve raised to the team.
     
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  13. chacal#2181

    chacal#2181 Well-Known Member

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    Well, for my part, from what i saw, another half cooked DLC from DTG. Good route idea, good lenght, good realisation (modelling of stations, well not NY)...
    But.... unfinished timetable while this is for me the major selling point of whole TSW, the thing that makes London Commuter or SKA (with addon) magic.
    But no magic here : deadline where met, the product had to go out whatever finished, bugged or not.

    Yes : bugs will be sorted, but hoping for a better timetable ?? Or a propoer PIS ? Or a good skyline ? Or a rebuild NY Penn ? Only dreams. Team have to move forward and bring another DLC. Its DTG after all.
     
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  14. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Curious about what actually is the cause of NY Penn clipping. Whether it is caused by an incorrect track layout (too close to each other), wrong pillar positions, too large pillars, etc.? Some would be easier to fix than others but should've been fixed/rebuilt anyway.
     
  15. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    of topic but related to US content.Wanted to see if anyone notice if the previous patch was for Harlem line..
    The reason I ask is I ran the timetable from 0445 and is now 11:10 on my PC (steam)No stuck trains. Also I did the infamous train 514 service on my XBOX X that usually got stuck behind an AI train right before reaching Crestwood. Ran good. No issues. Going to keep on testing the notorious services and see if we actually have light at the end of the tunnel
    Core
    • Series of AI pathing and behaviour improvements to reduce red light issues among all routes.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2023
  16. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Not me, lol. Got the Acela, but not this one yet. In it's current state, it's clesrly rushed and full of issues. Will probably wait and see what updates/bugfixes they do in the next week and will watch a few more gameplays.
     
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  17. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Could we get a more detailed description of what has been done here? The patch note is pretty vague.
     
  18. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    I’m even holding out on the Acela. I know is tempting I’ve been wanting the Acela for the longest for the longest ,but I know if I get the Acela I’m going to want to drive it down New Jersey
     
  19. MrbKlegend89

    MrbKlegend89 Well-Known Member

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    I actually might give the Acela a chance for Boston Sprinter as well, we see ..as far as this half baked dlc of NY-T..its a DEFINITE no lol....
     
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  20. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Acela is a good model and I've already had some good runs on it and am please with my purchase overall. True there's bugs which need ironing out but that's to be expected but I do feel it is a higher enough standard to justify paying full price.

    Trenton has been left on the shelf because it's clearly subpar. Had it been the same standard as the Acela I'd have had no hesitation in purchasing.
     
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  21. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    For Boston it's great fun. Increases traffic and variety on an already busy route route and is well done.
     
  22. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    I’m using this down time to going back to Harlem and checking out those notorious services that usually ended stuck, so far so good. I’m not sure if it was Mondays patch had something to do with it. But I tell you harlem line is so busy. Is fun just watching trains go during rush hour
     
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  23. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I shall be getting the Acela over the weekend although I was wavering when I discovered the Boston timetable has hard to keep to timings.

    I want to want this new route but I will certainly not be getting it, until, if or when there is a busier timetable. Like others I won't purchase anything which has lots of bugs or feels unfulfilling. There are several new routes coming out and I will be probably getting Edinburgh to Glasgow when the update comes, also there is the Harlem and the Bremen route to get. So DTG will still be getting money from me but not as much as they might have.

    The Acela does look impressive though.

    I just think that it wouldn't do them any harm to hold off some releases for a few more weeks to "finish off" what they started. The NEC NJ timetable is astonishing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2023
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  24. MrbKlegend89

    MrbKlegend89 Well-Known Member

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    I would've picked up Harlem Line despite it has a decent timetable, but it's only to North White Plains!!! Should've gone to Southeast!
     
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  25. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    That would be the best thing they could do. That move would pay off. There would be celebrations like the 2023 London’s new years fireworks
     
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  26. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    I know I wanted to also. But I’ll be honest after BML Harlem is my second favorite route. I might be bias nice I lived near by in the Bronx. But has plenty of services and AI.
     
  27. MrbKlegend89

    MrbKlegend89 Well-Known Member

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    Ima a long time NYer too(Brooklyn), so I def understand lol...But again I wasn't a fan of it, cuz after it was told they can make 50+ mile type routes at that time especially after London Commuter, they dropped the ball, as DTG gives us a 23 mile dlc to/from NWP, nah I'm good.If they would've had the dlc to Southeast, u would probably play all services since some on rush hours terminate at Mount Kisco, and Brewster also, instead of few ai out the game
     
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  28. paintbrushguy

    paintbrushguy Well-Known Member

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    My thoughts so far:
    1) Terminating roads at Penn have no buffers. Not sure if this is accurate but it doesn't seem so...
    2) WTF is suppression braking when you lap the brake yourself?!? (ALP-46)
    3) Pantographs are optional, not just on AI but also when you drive the Metroliner Cab Car...
    5) Lack of static rolling stock is a minus.
    6) Trains still clipping platforms. Come on, still?
    7) Not bothering to do proper PIS screens. Either go big or go home.

    On another (sarcastic) note, who wants to start a money pool and buy DTG's private investors? Quality would surely increase if some concerns for the consumer worked their way up the hierachy.

    Overall a 6/10.
     
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  29. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

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    As I see it, they have sold customers three times at full price the same station and a good piece of route and despite this clear recycling they have not even bothered to correct many of the mistakes of their original construction.

    Let everyone draw their own conclusions.
     
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  30. Kobebeef

    Kobebeef Active Member

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    Funny i was trying to find a proper review on youtube, such as the youtuber pixelade Rail, on this route. And lord behold, i only got those DTG "ambassadors" that only have good things to say lol.

    hmmm sneaky marketing to catch new prey xD
     
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  31. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    I can respect your holdout. Which is what I’m trying to do lol. I’ve been waiting for the NEC and Acela for years but they drove a dagger with the awful timetable. Just horrible.
     
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  32. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    From what I've read and heard, suppression braking equivalent on the alp is to get the eq and mr (maybe it's just eq, idk) down to 90psi or something
     
  33. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Same. .I am really intrigued to fill up Boston with Acela.
    How many services does Acela add to Boston?

    I just cant bring myself to do it though for some reason with the route, and have been unable to do for a few months now.
    upload_2023-2-22_10-42-59.png

    That said there is a sale inbound.....

    upload_2023-2-22_10-44-32.png
     
  34. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    20 services. It may not seem like a lot but it's realistic
     
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  35. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Yes and there's some variety, the quickest service is about 39mins and if I'm not mistaken the longest about 1hour 20min.
     
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  36. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    Ambassadors do point out bugs on the route and test the route and give feedback to dtg. I wouldn't say they get extremely mad over the bug and complain. Also, many of them just like driving different routes and tsw is like their main hobby which is why they would sound cheerful and seem to talk about positives. It might sound like they don't care but they provide lots of feedback to dtg. Also they aren't going to spend an entire stream trying to find every bug. The average user might not know what the bugs are or what's unrealistic, especially if not a native to the area. Even though routes may have bugs, I don't find them annoying and wouldn't know what the bug is unless it actually stops me from playing and getting from a to b
     
  37. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    I find some ambassadors are relatively unbiased in their views and give balanced viewpoints and I enjoy their streams, but then there are the others who I are wouldn't trust if they told me that the sky was in the air on a route and gloss over the faults and who will defend the game to the death and deny the very existence of certain bugs or missing features even if DTG themselves have acknowledged the issue. They are the ones to avoid.
     
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  38. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    You even held out of the holiday express..........
    March 16 for next sale.... I guess I have to wait until then
     
  39. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Are there any stabling moves in Boston? I assume some units would stay there overnight, right?
     
  40. TripleJ814

    TripleJ814 Well-Known Member

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    The Acela is actually quite nice tbh, I’d recommend it.
     
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  41. Masterplan

    Masterplan Member

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    514 is working now? Good. Have you tried 2519 for the M3? I only started it and saw some suspicious trains stranding still near Crestwood (I think, the station where northbound train is supposed to cross left), so I gave up.
     
  42. orb

    orb Well-Known Member

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    The newly released US DLCs won't be featured on that sale (not even with -10% off discount), as not even 30 days will have passed since their release. As for TSW3 DLCs released earlier, they will probably get from -25% to -35% off and TSW2 DLCs probably -35% off and higher discounts (so I may finally get Horseshoe Curve then).

    If you want to get the new NEC route or Acela when it's discounted anything higher than -10%, you'll need to wait likely until the Steam Summer Sale. Personally, I'll probably wait until Steam Autumn, Winter Sale at the end of year, or the Festival of Rail in January.
     
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  43. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Some of the ambassadors can be quite critical to be fair especially if it is in their area of knowledge or interest. I think they are just like an average TSW user, they enjoy the content but get irritated with it at the same time. They aren't there I don't think to necessarily be reviewing the content but playing it as you or I would.

    There are some youtube reviewers who seem to go to the other extreme and just want to rant to inflate their ego. There are plenty in between.
     
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  44. 5cip

    5cip Active Member

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    for me is the main problem the missing track joint sounds on all trains on NJT its hard to hear any of them so im feeling that im flying but even then no engine sounds..
    isnt it possible to raise the volume up for these missing sounds ? DTG
     
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  45. northeasttrainman

    northeasttrainman Active Member

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    I noticed a few inaccuracies:
    1. At NYP, Tracks 1 - 4 have 3rd rail and lack bumper blocks. In real life, tracks 1 - 4 don't have third rail, and they have bumper blocks.
    Besides, it looks weird to just have the tracks end like that. If I'm not mistaken, there were bumper blocks in TSW 2020.
    IMG_3366.jpg
    2. All AI locomotives are running on what appears to be sorcery since they don't use their pantographs.
    3. When you complete a timetable session, your locomotive's pantograph might lower and not raise again.
    4. NJT trains are prone to stalling on the steep grade from Jersey to NYP.
    5. The catenary poles for East River Tunnel Line 1 clip / impale trains.
    IMG_3368.jpg
    6. East River Tunnel Line 2 lacks cantenary on its approach.
    IMG_3371 (1).jpg
    7. Be careful near HAM interlocking on approach to Trenton. I nearly rear ended a train, apparently multiple trains can share a signal block there.
    I should've known better since I've seen it in real life back in the day. Although that was a practice I normally saw on the outermost tracks.
     
  46. cActUsjUiCe

    cActUsjUiCe Developer

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    Not for the Acela, unfortunately. In real life there are some sets that get stored in Southampton Street Yard overnight.
     
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  47. northeasttrainman

    northeasttrainman Active Member

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    This might just be me, but it is something I wanted to bring up as constructive criticism, and / or something to think about.
    A number of streamers on YouTube had little to no knowledge of the route and how to operate the trains.

    Now I understand not everyone lives near that stretch of the NEC, but that's what YouTube & search engines are for, to give you a feel of it.
    One thing many not from that area probably won't know is the horn procedure for Portal Bridge along with the East & North River Tunnels, long-long-short-long. Almost no one did that, but that's ok.
    I was just a bit taken aback at how a good deal of streamers audibly stated they're unfamiliar with the route (physical route, history, etc).
    I'm not expecting everyone to be a walking encyclopedia, but it would be nice if some were somewhat knowledgeable on the route.
    At least some sort of balance would be ideal.

    Also, this route takes some getting used to. I rode trains here, never operated one. So I had a few hiccups myself.
    However, when it's time to demonstrate this route, imo I think it would be smooth if the streamers practiced it beforehand instead of winging it.
    The amount of times the speed limits were ignored causing the safety systems to stop the train really made it hard for me to follow. I'm not looking for perfection, I just think it could've been a lot smoother.

    Overall the purpose is to sell the game / DLC. As with anything, it's easier to sell something if the seller / salespeople / whatever you want to call them appear to understand what they're selling. Like it would be tough to sell Street Fighter if the demonstrators frequently dropped combos. Or imagine you're buying a car and the car salesperson knew little about the car they were selling you. See where I'm coming from?

    Just something to think about. I'm not attacking anyone, just offering constructive criticism.
     
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  48. cActUsjUiCe

    cActUsjUiCe Developer

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    I'm definitely pretty ignorant of most physical characteristics and special instructions here. Once i get to grips with the manual lap brakes, I'll focus more on that =) I'd give people a pass for now until they have time to fully learn the territory.

    It is a challenging route to say the least and that's part of the appeal.

    EDIT: I'm talking about Trenton
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2023
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  49. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Are you talking about DTG's own streams? It isn't any other streamers purpose to sell the route! They are just driving the route like any one of us would!
     
  50. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I did bring this up yesterday as some commented how busy the route felt as to really trying hard to sell it to us. Really? Unless you are from the area you wouldn't know that the route is actually only 20% represented from reality on the DLC. just my opinion
     
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