Ny-trenton: Usa Content Is Still Severely Flawed

The one non DTG stream I watched was a service in the morning rush hour where I believe the route is at its busiest. They seemed to not know the furore about the quietness of the route on the forums, they likely don't visit here, they seemed suprised at comments on their stream about the timetable.

Presumably they will notice once they do a later in the day run.

 

I hope so. I mean you can just look at the time table and see only 10 ALP-46 pulling to Trenton for the whole day.... But you are correct they are just there to drive. Is just hard knowing what we know. I really hope DTG brings in Joethefish (the master of timetables) to save this DLC from a timetable point of view. I'm sure it did well in sales as they did a good job selling it with the Acela

 

Thats exactly what am hoping is for Joe to save this DLC. Also the Acela is a pretty good train. Had a blast on it on Boston. Still have not bought the new route waiting to see if DTG listens this one time. Am starting to wonder did the time go into adding freight services to London Commuter instead of adding the services into the new route. Has me wondering.

 

Another local thing besides the portal tunnel is in nj and after 1963 it is required to blow one long before any station even if you are on the middle tracks and not stopping.

 

I got pretty well used to the lap with peninsula corridor and a couple other routes so I was doing ok. I do come into route 128 though too hot I blew the station by 187 yards yesterday. Actually I was hoping I had no cars on the platform because I was a minute early and coulda backed up but was only penalized 96 points

 

I'll give this analogy since I'm from NY......... bringing Joethefish to do the timetable and bringing this DLC to life and proper form would be like the old days, the yankees Bringing Mariano Rivera to save the game 7 at the world series.........

 

NY-Trenton is not being sold to me, definitely, and it's not like Dovetail can't do better. I like to bring up London Commuter in this discussion. With 1,439 (I think it's exact) services, it's a much more lively route to drive than this would be. For instance, I just did a Class 66 run from Wivelsfield to Clapham Jn. (12:30pm -ish) and I was constantly chasing signals. I wasn't doing more than 40mph beyond East Croydon. I can heartily say it's the most engaging freight experience I've had, and the way things are going, this route is NOT going to have that. Dovetail HAS to fix these issues by Q1 this year I would say. Is this lazy developers or corporate pressure? I don't know but I definitely suspect the latter. A small part of me still likes to think Dovetail was about to pull a huge prank on the community.

 

I haven't chimed in on this thread yet, but I've been playing NY-Trenton for a bit now. Now I don't think it's an awful route, or anything near it, but it does have some glaring shortcomings.

First of all I'd agree the timetable feels lackluster. There are some moments where it does get interesting, and you get flying overtakes, adverse signals and overall a lot of nice and challenging signal and safety system interaction, aswell as there being plenty of trains around. However this is really isolated to just a few moments of the day, and only the northernmost section of the route. It really feels like it just lacks the punch that previous routes have had timetable wise, which is a shame, because this route, with the right timetable, has the potential to be one of the all-time greats. As for the LIRR layers, those would be great, about the freight I care less (though the odd CSX boxcar to populate a siding would still be nice). I find it interesting that even to someone that isn't that familiar with the route, the emptiness, especially after morning rush hour, is noticable aswell.

Then there are some 'simple' issues that really make me want to facepalm continously. I'll list them below, but these all are relatively small things compared to the timetable issue, yet still make the route feel so rushed.

• No improved wheel blur on the Amfleet coaches and ACS-64.
• A number of clipping issues, especially with platform edges and pillars in NY Penn.
• No ability to climb up the platform edge at Newark Penn, just the littl stairs (come on, this isnt TSW2020 anymore, I forgot how annoying this is)
• Floating OHLE masts near one of the junctions (the one near Newark I believe).
• Lowered pantographs on AI trains.
• No marker lights on the last vehicles of AI trains.

Now these do fall into the category of things that I think will be fixed in post update patches, hopefully even somewhat soon. However, they just show that apparently the polishing of the route was very rushed, and they take away from immersion quite consistently.

All this really feels like a shame. NY-Trenton had and still has a lot of potential. The OHLE is mostly masterfully done, the signalling system seems to work and the rolling stock is quite decent, with only the quality of the horns being hit or miss on the included stock. The route also gets the right 'feel' across to me, with it reminding me of videos and pictures I see of the NEC online both in looks and ovall 'vibe'. With some polishing and a better timetable this route would near the top of the list of routes I would recommend, even though I primarily like German routes. However, even though it still is quite a fun route, it keeps reminding you of the small issues and lacking timetable, and the way that wastes this routes massive potential. At the moment I prefer not to think about the fact that this is the first release I actually payed the newer higher price for at launch, and enjoy it as much as I can.

Is NY-Trenton severely flawed? No. It's just fallen far short of it's potential.


As for the Acela release, which also has been talked about in this thread: It's really good . The Acela is very much an on-par DLC, and I'm happy to see more loco DLCs. They also really nailed the looks of it IMO (see picture attached below).

 

The route itself is gorgeous

irl you wouldn’t have any bottlenecks of note unless you’re moving from express to local tracks south of Newark. Once you leave Newark Penn you’re just about spread out enough that the only delay would be something abnormal.

it’s getting between ny Penn and Newark Penn where the congestion lies.

what you describe though is the exact reason why it’s disappointing. You’ll have these random meets and fly bay all the way to Trenton and then like crazy past Rahway with the proper timetable.

for example driving to work this morning … I work in secaucus … there were 5 trains visible between where I come down the hill and to where I got off the exit. 4 inbound including two stuck at signals and one outbound.

this is what it should normally look like

if you railfan in secaucus on a weekday you shouldn’t wait for more than a couple 3 mins to see a move peak and maybe 10-15 mins off peak. The line is THAT busy.

of course it doesn’t hold a candle to someplace like London where it’s rare to not ever see a train moving. We Americans don’t quite understand volumes on railroads like Europeans do. It’s fun to railfan passenger operations in England and Germany because the volume of trains is mind blowing. I once shot a video in koln that was 45 minutes long and at no point was there less than two simultaneous moves. Crazy

 

Question I have is in the event they decide to add other services, branches, and AI services from NJT to the NEC NY-Trenton route, do they have the paths needed for the Morris&Essex,Montclair-boonton, and Ratitan lines? I think they do but I can be wrong. I know they already have it for the North jersey coast line since is already on timetable. I think they can even do AI trains going in and out towards hoboken like they do on Dartford for SEHS. Yes I know I'm dreaming again......

 

The shame is just that not that long ago I wrote a thread acclaiming Hamburg-Lübeck for the massively improved timetable around Hamburg Hbf, and how I thought timetables had gotten sooo good with recent releases. I was honestly surprised that NY-Trenton didn't follow that trend. From playing those German routes with impressive timetables, I just know what's possible, and I think that one of the few places in the US that actually sees traffic like that, should be represented as best as possible timetable-wise.

 

100% agree on this statement.

 

You know why these routes are released in this state? Simple. The majority who were moaning about the route pre-release bought it anyway. DTG has your cash, investors are happy. The rest is wishful thinking.

It's been like this for over a year without any improvement - people who left won't come back. The rest will buy the DLCs (and that's the majority it seems).

 

I hate to admit it but you are correct on this. I don't feel is our place to judge or advice people on what they should or shouldn't do when it comes to purchasing content. The only suggestion I can make is when DTG is telling us they admit they just ran out of time, they know and hear us about the timetable, but at the same time state that the are no plans to improve the DLC......and you buy it, then you are acknowledging and accepting to lackluster content. Again this is my opinion and no judment on my part.

 

I agree 100% with this. Trenton could be incredible with a little bit more TLC.

 

So, in English, for someone who has not yet bought the DLC for NEC: Trenton or the Acela DLC yet

Avoid NEC at all costs
Do get the Acela

 

I wouldn't say it that way.

Acela is great. Definitely get it if you like the Acela, or trains of that type in general (higher speed/express electric).

Trenton:
For an Amtrak fan the Trenton route is pretty good, it fully replicates the proper Amtrak timetable and also includes a bunch of Acela services.

If you are buying the Acela anyway, and you want to experience it outside of Boston, I'd say this route is worth it. So far I've just done Acela services and enjoyed it since it gives you a different feel than Boston.

If you are a NJT fan or are very concerned with an accurate world/busy traffic maybe hold off to see if DTG addresses the commuter timetable.

It is not a bad route, it just has a unfinished timetable which needs attention. At least that is not a fundamental flaw and can be fixed afterwards, the question is IF DTG will fix it. It is surprising they let this happen considering some of the masterpiece timetables they've put out over the last few years, but I guess the big question is if this gets shelved the way it is or do they put more work after the fact. I hate to say it but I almost feel like if it does poorly in sales they will have less incentive to fix it.

 

If it sells well, DTG will be happy. -> Let's move onto the next project.
If it doesn't sell well, DTG will try forgetting this route as soon as possible. -> Let's move onto the next project.

 

I don't think that approach would last very long if it were the case. Otherwise their catalogue could end up being a litany of routes which were incomplete.

 

Found this on Facebook look how realistic Penn looks

 

Not sure how accurate this is but I would say this.... a thread that was strated by TripleJ814 to bring up our concerns, frustrations, and provide constructive feedback on the NEC NY-to Trenton, has managed to get 42,500+ and counting in 13 days.This puts this thread at 13th from all the threads that I can see.. If this doesn't spark some changes on this and future route release, then I don't know what else would. Not sure if buying their content blindly,not buying their content, or if they don't make projected sales in the answer for them to at least acknowledge and just say "we hear you, we are listening, and we will fix it.

 

I will check out the other harlem notorious services and see if they have been improve

 

I question why TripleJ814 started this discussion, knew what they were getting into right up to the day of release, then went out anyway and rewarded DTG with a day 1 purchase and a scathing review on Steam. I sure hope they bought it just to confirm their initial feeling and to post a review then got a refund.

 

For HAR, I have completed all 49 M3A services to gold. I think this includes some of the known red light issues. I have played quite a few M7A services to gold as well, and can't recall any that could not be completed. This on Series S. I will admit, that on some of the known problem services, I did not have success until I spawned in on foot. This was exclusive to a few of the ECS moved from GCT to Crestwood. So, I do believe the vast majority of these services are possible at this time.

 

This is very well put. I'm not trying to convince anyone to buy anything, but here's my quick thoughts:

Acela- only done the basic training module, but i like it! It's a unique drive and seems well modeled.

Updated Boston- love it- the new lighting looks great and seems like they really nailed the signalling and safety systems with the update. Drove the 0800 Northeast Regional #171, and was 3 minutes late to Providence with all safety systems on. Very busy rush hour with lots of AI traffic. Fantastic stuff.

NY-Trenton- picked up the same NE Regional #171 and drove as far as Metropark before i had to get some sleep. Again safety systems and signalling seemed solid. Amtrak timetable is really good, and the route doesn't feel like a ghosttown IMO- got plenty of adverse signals , but it's not nearly busy enough. It needs to be AT LEAST as busy as Boston, and clearly the NJT portion of the timetable needs to be addressed and hopefully sooner than later- if it is fixed, this route could really be a gem.

Random stuff:

Getting some pretty bad texture flickering on the ADU in the ACS-64. I only tried the NY-Trenton version as I assumed it would be the most up-to-date model. Was this present on the Boston version?

Saw some PIS issues on both Boston and Trenton, with missing info for some services. I do like that Trenton tells you the actual service name/number on the departure boards. I like the flight departure boards at Newark Airport- but maybe they could be populated with some info- right now seems like the airport is closed lol.

Random AI issues (panto down, lights used incorrectly etc)- not sure how these make it through beta testing tbh.

NY Skyline is abysmal, there's no other word- they've done much better with Boston and even San Francisco, which is nearly as old as the reused NEC:NY assets. In-game Newark skyline even looks better. The flat geography of the area only exacerbates the issue as you unceremonially plunge into a tunnel seemingly into a giant grassy mound and pop out a few miles later into Penn Station. The scenery from NYP-Secaucus is pretty dire overall, but the rest of the route looks much better.

The lack of static/AI freight sticks out after seeing it scattered around Boston.

Anyway looking forward to finishing the trip to Trenton (assuming the save loads, *fingers crossed*)

Haven't gotten to try the new Sherman Hill lighting yet. I gave the heritage pack a pass for now- just not enough value for me.

 

I didn't refund it, because I like the NEC, I like the trains that come with it, the gameplay is good, and it's not completely garbage, it's just severely flawed in my opinion. I rated the route a 5/10 on steam because of that, with a proper timetable my rating would go up to a 9/10, as stated on my steam review. This thread was just to make it "known" that this route does indeed have flaws. also, it wouldn't be fair to fully criticize this route if I didn't play it for myself.

(also, I kinda did miss my 2 hour refund policy window because I was looking into this route in the unofficial editor, especially the timetable formations this route has, which is LIRR and Arrow III formations)

 

I was perplexed why there was a second post set up by DTG when this one was full of feedback...

 

Probably because of how big and messy this thread is, the other one is cleaner.

Also to add on to this post;
- LIRR and Arrow III are not confirmed for timetable yet, it's just that the formations are there. here are the posts detailing it Ny-trenton: Usa Content Is Still Severely Flawed | Page 22 | Dovetail Games Forums & Ny-trenton: Usa Content Is Still Severely Flawed | Page 22 | Dovetail Games Forums

 

Not to get prematurely excited, but what would the Arrow III bring to the table? Would it add NJT services that are currently missing? My NJT knowledge is very limited, so sorry if it's a dumb question.

 

Honestly, not sure.

To be perfectly clear though, an Arrow III is no means confirmed, and i doubt we'll see it. But as seen in this post Ny-trenton: Usa Content Is Still Severely Flawed | Page 22 | Dovetail Games Forums there are three timetable formations for it, which currently use the Multi-Level coaches as placeholders. I haven't looked further into it than that.

 

Thank you, and that was after a patch and they surprisingly added freight layers and playable services...This is why I'm keep repeating, that there's no excuses, there were so much time on the LC(I still like it) but they have 1,400+services and numerous ai layers through the dlc; and not ALL is from Brighton to LV....oh yea I forgot they even inserted ai passing GWR every hour through Clapham Junction part of the launch.

 

So here’s our answer to those that are still on the fence. So I will hold on to my funds. I tell you this they are making easier for me not to regret getting this. They are showing us their true colors

 

Looking at the TSC version of the Arrow III, it runs on the NEC, NJCL, and Morristown lines. Google tells me they're similar to SEPTA's Silverliners, which I've ridden many times, and boy are those seats uncomfortable lol.

 

Awwww man...I knew that was coming lol...once again, they happy with giving US passenger content the short end as usual....More excuses will be coming, but London Commuter got more treatment even after 1,400+playable services and way more of ai layers, adding in freight services......And I'm beginning to believe what was said, I think NY-T was rushed partially those freight services in BML had to be imported from that patch(...And now no current investigations to even make a better timetable for the NY-T lol thus is comical.....whoever said this route was a 5/10...I take that!

 

It does show that they are aware of the issue and are somewhat listening. Not to defend the timetable by any means, I wish they would fix the timetable, but a decision for that won't take place overnight, and we'll probably hear about it on a roadmap stream, not on a forum thread.

 

I thought the Arrow III don't run on NCJL anymore.

 

You could be right. The TSC version launched in 2017, so i'm sure there have been changes since then.

 

Ah okay, thanks for clearing that up

From some of the wording, it sounded like there was a bit of a copy and paste job that went on with the route but glad to hear it is just the timetable that's the issue and not the actual route/scenarios

 

Sherman Hill was featured in a sale 6 weeks after release and it was a big discount at 75% off, there's been others but I dont recall as being as big of a discount as Sherman Hill, but then it did flop. So its not unheard of for discounts soon after release.

 

I'd like to think that the lesson being learned (again) is people are tired of this rush it out the door approach.

 

unfortunately I think the most likely reason for the lack of services and layering is for the older consoles and they just didn't bother making it better for pc and newer consoles.

 

and the price

 

Of course DLCs can be discounted even -75% off, but that can't happen earlier than 30 days after the release. Last year's changes in the Steam discount rules 1st made the discounts for the same thing not possible to be applied more often than once every 28 days and next it was increased to 30 days after previous sale or release. Since these DLCs were released on 21 February and the sale starts on 16 March, the DLCs aren't eligible. They may however be discounted later, even before the summer sale, e.g. maybe sometime in April or May.

 

They can run on the Coast Line as far as South Amboy, so they can do the 35xx services, but not the 32xx services. They can also run Morris & Essex services out of Hoboken, but not out of New York, because they can’t handle the voltage change between catenary systems on the fly.

 

Just recently TSW3 has always had a couple of routes on sale, right now we've got West Somerset & LIRR both 50% off. So if really does tank we may see a standalone sale sooner rather than later.

 

Ohhh I haven't seen some even to South Amboy...
Yea I know the 3 or 4 car Arrows in and out of Hoboken on the Morris/Essex lines and I think Gladstone too

 

I got WSR & LIRR -60% and -65% off a couple of years ago, so I'm not interested in getting them again now. Wake me up when NEC is -75% off and Acela -40% off, which won't happen next month.

 

Looks like another cracking release knocked out of the park.

I watched TrainSim TV’s video just out of interest and the number of issues that were apparent with 5 minutes were literally mind-boggling, all of which were over and above the lighting being utterly buggered on yet another route.

ps those believing you’re going to get a new timetable for this have to be the most optimistic people on this planet!