I think the majority on here of course want DTG and the sim to flourish, I certainly do. There is some of what I would say is needless bashing, as there has always been and was on UKTS going back to the days of Rail Simulator and I think even going back to the days of MSTS. I think you can see who are the incessant bashers who never have anything good to say, those who have stopped playing TSW, but keep coming back to tell us why, and often that we should follow suit. I suspect half the time they are buying DLC as well just keeping quiet about it! However I think there is general frustration often and this route is a case in point. DTG have produced a lovely looking route with lovely trains, but have spoilt it really with what appear quite shoddy mistakes. Some like the AI locos not having raised pantagraphs will be fixed I am sure but the clipping of trains and platforms in NY Penn likely never. Also, what is vaunted as a very busy route has a timetable which doesn't really bare that out and a new train (for TSW3) seems underused. It feels to me as if they ran out of time. I do get much enjoyment out of TSW3 however, I loved driving the F40PH on Boston Sprinter yesterday on what was a busy route with its nice new skies and signalling.
Ooo yet another "oh woe is me I'm so fed up" post. So far TSW3 is fine, BCC and Edinburgh Glasgow are both good fun, I can't speak for NYT as I don't have it but this is still a great sim overall. A little rough around the edges but still great. People need to stop being so dramatic.
Bro there's no drama at all It's called an opinion and everyone is entitled to it you may like the quality of it and be fine with it others of us maybe not so much
I only have an interest in UK routes and for me I like what DTG do, however, bugs/errors/sloppy routes SHOULD NOT be making it out for release in the numbers they do, no game is completely fault free on day one and people will probably accept that in the main but not sloppy standards, I've seen stories on here of routes not being fixed since TSW2, despite seemingly false promises, it's just not good enough really, BCC for example, I'm a brummie by birth and love the route, however, new street being as quiet as it is is just not on, passenger numbers on all routes is a big issue, it detracts fom the immersion of the game, it's no good having deadlines if ultimately people stop buying sub par content because then deadlines won't matter a jot. Maybe the way to fix this is to have people given the routes pre release on all platforms and have people who know the game do the testing and report back?
TSW3 is a quality product. It's far from perfect but I still think it's unparalleled for what it does. A lot of people seem to act like what are really minor problems are the end of the world. Do things need fixing? Yes. But I can't help but roll my eyes every time I see one of these "this game is dreadful and I'm never buying a DTG product ever again" posts.
Why roll your eyes? Your standards are the standards the world has to abide by? I don't roll my eyes because you think TSW3 is a quality product. I'm glad for you you enjoy the game that much. I do understand what you mean with a quality product. If TSW was about collecting digital trains I also would think it's a quality product. Can't complain about the quality of the trains. But there is more to TSW than just marvelling how wonderful a train looks. Once I get past that point I don't see a quality product anymore. Should I roll my eyes because you are too easily satisfied? No I admire how can you see past all the rust, cracks and dents and see a shiny toy
That is a pretty condescending view though, why do you think someone is easily pleased if you disagree with them? Someones opinion is just that. There is a balance between, TSW is great and has no problems whatsoever and TSW is awful, unplayable and unsaleable. However there are a lot of the "TSW is awful, DTG are ripoff merchants, people who purchase add-ons are fanboys" posts, if it is that bad and you are presumably not using TSW then why does someone need to keep coming on here and saying "I am never playing TSW again..... etc? Surely this forum becomes an irrelevance to that person? There are games I played in the past, thought they were awful and gave up with them, I don't visit the forums to tell everyone on them so, ad-infinitum!
When even the developers themselves admit to rushing the release to meet deadlines, then it is not a quality product. Both Matt and Cactusjuice admitted to the route being rushed to meet the release deadline, therefore not finishing the timetable and other aspects properly. Despite that, is it a fun and enjoyable product? Sure! I play it every day, I love it. But it's full of quality issues, because releases get rushed, content unpolished and missing, just because they couldn't predict their workload properly. After that, instead of delaying a release, they release it ADMITTEDLY half finished and give no promises to fix it post-launch. Every route is full of both big and small issues, that are alway apparent after just 15 minutes of playtime. When a route has 10 or 20 of these issues, these quickly add up and ruin the experience. This is not what a quality product is. If you think it is, then you are not used to quality games. Again, don't get me wrong, I love playing Train Sim World. But sometimes it feels so great to play something else and experience games that actually look great, run great and are not full of visual, gameplay and sound issues.
Not at all I wasn't really giving an opinion. I was musing as to why there seem to be lots of "I am uninstalling TSW it is unplayable" type posts!
I don't see them too often. What I see the most is "I love this product but this product would be so much better if so and so". The sort of posts you are referring to you see on every forum and I don't take them too seriously. What I do see a lot is DTG's marketing department coming up with their biggest new release 'and this time they have listened to the customer ....' DTG is just begging for angry customers in their forums
When players like Londonmidland and bescot etc have to release mods that fill in the voids left by dtg, rivet etc. Or modify signals so we can distinguish the difference between yellow and red and fix problems with approach control. I would say that the quality isn't as good as some people are saying it is. Whilst the trains are infact very well modeled indeed, there's parts of the world around them that are appalling. Then there are the red light issues. How many routes have dtg made and sold, since it all started? I understand as a business dtg need to keep the money coming in but at the same time they can atleast look after the people that have put them where they are today. Rivets latest route was a total shambles on release, not made by dtg i know but dtg still have a responsibility to not let this happen. If dtg had of give it the once over and said you can't release it in that state and rivet held back the release, I might actually still own it. Dtg are a good company, they have released some stunning content over the years, come on the forum and interact with the community, but recently it seems like they are trying to do to much. I.e fix loads of bugs and roll out a hell of a lot of content at the same time. That's when things start going wrong.
They did run out of time. Matt said as much, but they set the deadline and continue to opt to release substandard content rather than give longer development time. They have no real pride in their product - despite all the warm words to the contrary. Yes, things cannot be delayed forever, so just don’t make something you cannot give 100% too. They know by now the backlash they’ll receive, but carry on regardless.
I agree they should have postponed the release. I think the timetable is poor and that is why I have held off buying the route. I don't believe that they don't have pride in their product though, you can see the passion when watching streams. Whether it matches what I and others expect is another matter. I suspect budget and time contraints from higher have an influence, unfortunately most things are built to a budget and a timescale.
and that's the criticism I notice, this has been the argument since as long as I can remember. "Only release something when it's done". It's not like just one of the add ons in the bundle is not perfect. You could argue they rushed that add on to get it in time for the bundle to launch. But the entire bundle still needs polish. Most heard criticism on this forum: "why was it released this early?"
Hi all! I want to say that there has been a lot of criticism lately and I wondered about its validity. Ask yourself the most important questions: 1. "Do you like what you buy and what you get?" - the answer is "Yes"; 2. "Do you want to get even more and more often at the level of quality that exists today - the answer is "Yes"; 3. "The quality of the latest additions is higher than the original ones?" - the answer is "Yes"; 4. "does the product contain errors and you are ready to accept them and hope for a correction" - the answer is "Yes"; 5. "Do you believe in the development team and expect the product to improve?" - the answer is "Yes"; 6. "Do you regret any purchase?" - the answer is "No". We bow to the DTG team and thank you very much for their work! Thank you for bringing joy and desire to travel by rail with you!
But remember, if the dollars keep rolling in, the backlash can be safely ignored. Company reputation, poor reviews, and a forum with a lot of angry customers are all secondary if the product continues to bring in the expected revenue. Foresight would say that continuing along this way will lead to a further reduction in the user base as we've seen with TSW3, but only time will tell how long the downward spiral will last.
I agree. I can handle small bugs as they usually get fixed and I do think DTG are better at fixing them than they were. However, if the timetable is indeed unfinished then personally it should have been postponed or released with the caveat that it would be updated as soon as it could be. Maybe it is intended to be as released which I find hard to believe.
Fully agree with Blacknred81 above I suppose for console players without previous railsimming and DTG experience, TSW as a train driving game is sufficient and perhaps even pleasant experience. For those who come from the PC with MSTS, OpenRails, TSC, Trainz and other simulations in their memory, TSW is severely lacking and didn't really deliver on its promises. If I knew in advance TSW would remain a shallow train driving game without any creative input from the player, and even without clear goals other than 'points' and 'collectibles' I would never have spend a penny on this game.
What "clear goals" did you have in mind? A proper simulator has no goals at all- "goals" are inherently gamey. I'm also not sure what you mean by "no creative input from the player," unless you're talking about the lack of an editor. And to me, at least, an editor is an absolute no-no in anything called a "simulator."
I have been into "simulators" for probably 25 years now. The entire "simulator" vs "game" thing always amuses me. Unless it costs $15,000+ and takes up its own room, its a game. Anything on a home PC or game console is a game. Train Sim World (and MSFS for example) are games. That said they both do a real good job at doing their best to be accurate and true to life. Yes the scores and gold medals etc have a "gamey" feel but they don't detract from the simulation at all. I've completely ignored scores, medals, trophies, achievements and all that LOVE since day one and it doesn't take away from the experience. Its not like they dumb down the game to facilitate the scoring system. The only thing I care about is getting from where I start to where I am going relatively on time, without passing danger or ending the game, and properly following safety systems. I can do that fine in TSW without ever thinking about what kind of medal or points I get. Compare it to one of those Japanese train sims that are all about high scores (literally have them in arcades) and its a major difference. I will say some of the collectibles are goofy and I wish they didn't stand out so much, but that varies by route.
I have used all of those and been train simming for nearly 20 years. TSW I find on the whole a engaging and enjoyable experience. It has one main advantage of the others you mention, apart from generally better graphics and that is service mode. TSC still has the potential to be the best in my mind but I do find making scenarios is getting tedious, if it had service mode TSW wouldn't get a look in. It is it's steam and diesel content which mainly keeps TSC installed for me. TSW's main failing for me is that the routes lack scope sometimes and whilst timetable mode is a boon I wish it was editable.
Not sure what you mean by this statement. TSC has benefited immensely from the availability of a full editor. At least half the content would not exist otherwise.
Yes there is so much wonderful freeware content for TSC which has certainly kept it going. From the perspective of someone whose main interest is in UK operations from the 1950's to the 1990's my appetite would be far less satisfied if we only had payware content. Sadly from what I can see TSW may not whet the appetite in the same way as it seems mainly modern UK routes are of interest, BR diesels have disappeared and steam has been a bit of a disappointment so far. TSW has got me interested in non UK routes though. This does show up for me where DTG has largely improved. I can't imagine a TSC install of just DTG DLC. Certainly DTG routes in TSC look good but I find the stock usually lacking, mainly with sounds, something I rarely have an issue with in TSW.
Here's the main question...... before they released the route they clearly stated "they had ran out of time and that they no plans to fixing the time table". So they were transparent with the community and players. Did I buy the DLC even after knowing this ? Answer: NO
I recall getting banned from a Virtual Airline (might have been BA) because I called FS9 (I think it was at the time) a game and tongue in cheek referred to "pretend pilots"...
If I remember right, I joined this forum for the purpose of help with train simulator and its editor, I don't think I've ever complained about the quality of train simulator. Apart from a couple of rants at dtg for completely ruining my work with some updates! On a few occasions I've not been happy with the quality of routes released for train simulator but not been too peeved about it because I can edit that out, fix problems myself, make my own scenarios etc... Tsw on the other hand I sometimes have to wait years for things to be fixed, sometimes they don't get fixed at all. Do yourselves a favour dtg and give us a editor I quite enjoy the editor in ts its a great pastime.
I'm a console player. I'm not used to poor quality games. I don't have any rail simming experience. I'm just a casual gamer. I don't think the game as if it is sufficient. In my opinion this is probably sufficient for experienced SIM railers but not for console players who are used to Gran Turismo and Forza quality.
You don't even have to be someone with a history of playing previous rail simulators to notice the flaws. Every time my girlfriend looks at my screen while I am playing TSW, she can always spot something, be it either horrible lighting, scenery issues, bugging NPCs or just horrible framedrops.
You want answer? Sometimes. There certainly are good add-ons for TSW. But most of them are always a let down in one way or another. No. I want quality to improve, not stay in this state. Definite no. I still think of SPG as one of the most quality route for TSW. Their first route from several years ago tops most of their releases since. No. Why would I accept errors in something I pay real money for? Yes. I expect the product to improve. Hard yes, sadly. There are many TSW add-ons I regret buying. Because of that, currently I am much more careful with what I buy.
My missus was watching me play TVL, crawling up to a red signal at Eaglescliffe... "Is this in real time? Isn't that a bit boring?" was her question fresh from playing Hogwarts or Gran Turismo! If she thinks that's boring, she would be anaesthetized doing an industry job in Run 8!
The thing for me is that a lot of the patches released in the first week or so for these routes should never have seen the light of day. Those fixes should have been contained in the launch version. A lot of the complaints died down after all the patching, but the bad taste from the initial first impression is still there. (As are the poor review scores). It's almost like companies think that easy patching = earlier releases, or soft releases, but IMO it isn't worth the hit to your reputation. You are hoping people will put up with it and price in future fixes at release.
Now there's a game with a hard time properly immersing you in the fantasy and simulating the experience it's selling you. Cast all your favourite spells from the books, like "Lockpicking Minigame", "Eagle Vision", and "Pop A Cap In Their Ass".
I'm one of those players that has stopped playing TSW and came back to the forum in the vain hope things have been improved. I only get UK routes but none-the-less I still could drop a fair bit of lolly on the game and on TSW3 which I still ain't got yet. I could do all this tomorrow but then I look down at my RailDriver which I got for TSW on Matt's say so and it still hasn't been improved despite all the promises. Then you read the bugs that still persist in the game, missing overhead cables, trains driving with pantographs down ETC and you have to wonder at the very least 'do they care that much at what they put out. Something which I think could really improve DTG is collect honest Data from what the customer wants per region, UK, US and Europe and then make decisions off of that. I now they do surveys but imo it isn't 'honest' and DTG seem to ignore that anyway and do their own thing which they are entitled to do but to actually improve their playerbase an 'honest' survey (let the customer state what they would like to see) would pay dividends.
