PC Will We Ever Get The Promised Fixes?

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by grumypop51, Jan 12, 2023.

  1. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    For you, I am sure this is the case. But some of us have serious problems with core features of TSW3 which render content unmanageable for us vs its TSW2 counterparts, like the trouble with the lighting system.
     
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  2. StrikeEagle78

    StrikeEagle78 Well-Known Member

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    Is that a reference to the NY-Trenton route? :D
     
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  3. uvm0902

    uvm0902 Well-Known Member

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    I do not quite understand what kind of problem you might have and it does not exist for me. As far as I know, the majority of people do not experience technical problems when switching to TSW3. After all, the platform has been preserved and the requirements have not changed if we are talking about a PC.
    My experience starts with the first release of the game "CSX Heavy Haul". I personally evaluate all subsequent transitions to new platforms as successful and note the improvements in the game.

    By purchasing the TSW3 platform, which is no worse than the previous one and supports all past releases without loss of quality, you do not lose anything. At the same time, you get several new routes of the new standard for the price of one. I bet it's worth the money! It remains to wait only for fixes that have not been fixed since their launch, regardless of the platform used.

    Sorry, maybe I don't understand your problem completely. In any case, you, as a content consumer, have the right to demand its proper quality.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2023
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  4. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Until it's proved otherwise, yes
     
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  5. StrikeEagle78

    StrikeEagle78 Well-Known Member

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    It's the TSW3 specific routes that are the issue for some. i.e. the nuclear lighting and tunnel flashing can cause headaches and / or the jackhammering stuttering can cause nausea when looking at it for more than a few minutes.
     
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  6. ottselmaster

    ottselmaster Well-Known Member

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    I`m glad this is finally gaining steam! (Pun maybe intended) I remember when they said: The PRES-COLL updates for tsw2 will be released BEFORE the new year, part1 will come before Christmas"

    Nearly 4 months later its now just a total farse.
     
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  7. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    smfh
     
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  8. StrikeEagle78

    StrikeEagle78 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly! It makes it feel like your head is being shaken.
     
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  9. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Ah isn't that sweet, you actually think TSW3 is a new game? It is the same engine with lighting effects and don't they effectively give TSW3 free anyway with new routes? I don't want the new routes and the UK routes I have I don't think are fully available on TSW3, haven't checked but I don't want to buy SEHS again.

    So your also saying that because some so companies turn out the same game every year DTG should do it as well? I'd rather not in DTG's case as it never gets fixed, even in FIFA EA will still fix it. EA! But that's fine, if DTG don't intend to fix it then they should grow a pair and come out and say so but given the calibre of staff they have I doubt that will happen anytime soon.

    Perhaps I am over thinking this but I would thought it would be good business practice to offer TSW3 as a free core update so as to bring along all the TSW2 users, obviously they would have to update the routes, given the poor sales of TSW3. For me, if DTG don't update the RD drivers I won't bother, i'll wait for TSW4 unless a better one comes out.
     
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  10. StrikeEagle78

    StrikeEagle78 Well-Known Member

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    Just to clarify, you wouldn't have to re-purchase SEHS for TSW3 if for example you got another bundle. You'd just get the downgraded version that runs worse than the one you already have. Sadly there doesn't seem to be a way to get the "classic" TSW2 version of SEHS in TSW3, so you'd lose that. I think this is the case with other routes that they downgrade to the TSW3 standard. They'll just be replaced in your library so if you want to play the smoother working versions of them you'd have to keep TSW2 installed on the side for those routes.
     
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  11. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    Just a thought, but I was reading the new TSC information that came out this week where the producer was talking about re-doing the core and bringing it all up to speed.

    Maybe DTG themselves are starting to back the other horse...
     
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  12. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Really? And would the editor be part of that you think?
     
  13. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but the devs usually mention that the software will no longer be supported; here, they keep saying fixes for TSW2 are coming. They would've saved themselves so much trouble if base TSW3 (only the training center and core behind it) was a free update instead of this mess
     
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  14. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Bull[LOVE]!

    Broken records are so tiresome. You don't want to buy TSW3. Fine. So stop slagging it off to others as if you know something about it (which, by definition, you do not), and go off to play TSW2 quietly by yourself.
     
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  15. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    There I have to agree: DTG really shot themselves in the foot, costing themselves a heap of goodwill for little if any actual monetary return. As you say, the bundle pricing is such that TSW3 is effectively free: they would be in exactly the same situation without having ticked so many people off if they had handled it like Rush Hour, a summer route bundle for sale with a free core update for everyone.
     
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  16. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    You mean in your experience as it seems there are plenty on here, including myself with the opposite experience.

    SEHS runs for me better than it did in TSW2, plus you get an extended run on HS2, there is no way I would want to go back to the TSW2 version.

    Maybe caveat your responses with "in my limited experience"!
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2023
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  17. StrikeEagle78

    StrikeEagle78 Well-Known Member

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    Sigh.. reading. I know it's difficult, but stay with me here. I... Have... TSW3. I'll repeat that even slower for you. I........ Have......... TSW3.
     
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  18. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    The re-release of TSW under the TSW3 name might have been the stupidest idea they have done so far, in my opinion. Split your playerbase in two, anger them and barely get anything out of it. Seeing TSW3 player numbers (and the fact that the bundle pricing makes the base game basically free), the profit from the TSW3 paywall must have been really minimal, but they did put themselves in a situation where they now have two versions to maintain (if we actually believe there really are TSW2 fixes exsisting and it's not just a lie) until they completely drop TSW2, which means more work.

    Who is responsible for such bad decisions at DTG?
     
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  19. yardem

    yardem Well-Known Member

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    I don't think this was the plan. It may look like a bad decision today, but I'm sure someone somewhere thought this was a great idea, worth beaucoup bucks.
     
  20. grumypop51

    grumypop51 Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe that beyond the fixes (if they ever come), TSW2 will be maintained and nor would I expect it to be. I'll be happy with the fix(es) we were told would come, so long as they don't break something else in the process.
     
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  21. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It may not have been the plan, but it could have been predicted by a third-grader with a Ouija board.
     
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  22. ctlee#2068

    ctlee#2068 Active Member

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    I bought Dresden -Riesa Route two hours ago.
    And I spent an hour on the first tutorial, because it broken.
    I feel like "DIY". Why don't DTG fix it?
     
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  23. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Good question and in some cases Red light bug still happens happened to me on Bremen Oldenburg fast delivery scenario
     
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  24. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    This situation reminds me of some advice I was given by a work colleague many years ago. He said that he wasn't the best looking man but never had a shortage of female acquaintances during his time at university. His philosophy being "Aim low, avoid disappointment!"

    Adopting this attitude with most things DTG related may help with your mental health. If you expect anything that comes out Chatham Docks to be garbage, when it's not then you will feel happier!
     
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  25. Railfan1985

    Railfan1985 Well-Known Member

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    Lets be honest, this was planned. DTG screwed up tsw2 to the point its unfixable. They then said they would pause dlc and focus on fixing bugs. This was a muse, a lie. Instead tws3 came out, worts and all. Tsw3 was a few years in the making prior to all this. We all know how long it usually takes to make a game . DTG make false promises, whilst pushing out bugged, broken content.

    Don't get me wrong, i love tsw, and tsw3. What i don't like is DTGs attitude towards the game and players. I've no doubt the dtg fan club will be on me like flies to, well you know what.
     
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  26. yardem

    yardem Well-Known Member

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    $ git tag -a v3.0 -m "Train Sim World 3"
    $ git push --tags
     
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  27. Railfan1985

    Railfan1985 Well-Known Member

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    Um, what?
     
  28. yardem

    yardem Well-Known Member

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    It takes literally seconds to make TSW3 from TSW2: you just choose to call it that.
    TSW3 is the same code as TSW2 (at least it was, at some point in time).
     
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  29. Railfan1985

    Railfan1985 Well-Known Member

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    How do you know this? Have you ever developed a game? It does not take seconds. You think it takes seconds to upgrade sounds? Upgrade physics, textures, lighting etc. Game dev ain't easy. And no, I'm not defending dtg
     
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  30. yardem

    yardem Well-Known Member

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    The point I am trying to make is that TSW3 started from TSW2 code. They added the lights, the clouds, dynamic weather, etc. But, because they started off with the original TSW2 code, they inherited all the issues that TSW2 code contained. For example, the buffers/derailment issues, the red lights issues.
    Had they written TSW3 from scratch, they would have needed a lot more than a couple of months.
     
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  31. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    TSW3 does not feature any new lighting. TSW3 exclusive routes do. Other than thedynamically changing weather and snow kickoff, TSW3 did not add any core features to TSW, as the volumetric clouds and new lighting is all route specific.

    And the previous comment is true. TSW3 is not a "new" game, it is just a patch sold under a new name. Most of the game code is entirely the same, it did not take years to develop.

    My guess would be that the dev team said "let's take a brake to fix some long standing issues" to which the money people at the company answered "sure, but let's sell it as new".
     
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  32. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    TSW3 is, to all intents and purposes, the same game as TSW2. It runs on the same version of the engine (4.26) and there is nothing in it that couldn’t have been released as a simple update to TSW2.

    My understanding is that DTG simply turned on Volumetric Skies and Eye Adaption which were existing features within Unreal 4.26. Literally a tick box. However, in utilising eye adaption all the fudged lighting values that existed in TSW2 to make it look the way it did no longer worked so new, more realistic, lumin values had to be devised and used for lights in TSW3 routes. TSW2 content had a botch job done on it to make it look ok within TSW3, but it is not the same as the native TSW3 content. I believe they also did some optimisation on the skies as they proved to be a bit of a performance hog, particularly on lower-end PC’s and consoles.

    That is why I (and many others, clearly) took exception to it and for me particularly, the outright fudge that they had ‘torn up the lighting and started again’ really bothered me. The ‘new lighting’ is why I bought it yet it turned out to simply be different brightness levels. For the vast majority of the time it still looks blinkin awful, the only saving grace being the new skies.

    ps The above is my understanding. If I’m wrong please explain why…
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2023
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  33. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Just to be clear, eye adaptation was already working in TSW and TSW2. It was less noticeable, as the the light values were set up incorrectly, but it was there.

    But the point is, eye adaptation is not a new feature in TSW3 either, simply TOD4 now makes it actually noticeable due to the more true to life (though still not perfect) light and brightness values.
     
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  34. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    You’re right, it was there indeed so scratch that from the list of features. They just set it up ‘correctly’, and I use that word in it’s loosest sense because it’s far from correctly implemented.
     
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  35. yardem

    yardem Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes, it feels like their approach to fixing things is haphazard. Maybe the developer looks at the code like Ben Affleck was looking at the Armadillo controls, after crashing on the asteroid. "I have no idea what I'm doing. This button: I don't know what that does."

    Look at the fix for the permanent red light issues. If they knew what they were doing, they would come and say: "This is what was fixed, and this is what wasn't fixed". Instead, they use vague wording: "some improvements", and then ask for feedback, because of course their QA department cannot verify the mile long list of red light issues that have been raised across many routes.
    And despite the list of issues still happening, as seen in the feedback thread, they claimed that 80% of the issues were fixed! DTG JD are you sure about your math? Or is this the "moving the goal posts and claiming victory" kind of strategy?
     
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  36. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Well-Known Member

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    Was TSW open sourced when I wasn't looking? That's the only explanation I can think of for the number of people who seem to have access to the full code base of both TSW2 and 3.
     
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  37. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    My opinion above is based on what has been said by DTG over the last 5 years, previous engine changes and my own (admittedly limited) knowledge gained through making mods for the last 3 versions of the game, and then finally from watching videos on UE4 on YouTube, particularly on the ‘new’ features.

    As I said, if I’m wrong (and I’m happy to admit it if I am), then rather than get your DTG pom-poms out tell me why I’m wrong.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2023
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  38. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I look forward to all these new train simulators they will be developing!
     
  39. yardem

    yardem Well-Known Member

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    Based on your experiences, please make some sense of these findings:
    1. I can play TSW3 on my PC at 4K with Ultra settings and 200% rendering. I have 100+ FPS solid, as long as I play on an older route. Just now, I was playing RRO at 120+ FPS, smooth as butter.
    2. When I try a new route, for example BRO, it runs ~60 fps with frequent drops into 40s: it feels like the train has hit something, then keeps going. I guess this is what some people call "stuttering". If I reduce the screen rendering percentage, the FPS will increase, but the stuttering will keep happening.
    3. Not all routes are alike, but the "stuttering" seems to be happening more on the new routes than the old ones.

    Is there any magic trick that I could do to remove some of the TSW3 features from a route like Bremen? Turn off the clouds, maybe? I want to play it, but I can't. The frequent drops in FPS give me nausea.
     
  40. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    No, that's not stuttering. That's just low framerate.
     
  41. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    There are many things that affect performance.

    For straters, try changing the sky quality setting, as that seems to be a big FPS killer. Changing the Sky Quality to a lower preset will keep the volumetric clouds, but less detailed, so better performance.

    But regardless of graphics settings, the route building techniques used can also affect performance.
    Some rolling stock could be badly optimized, like the Clinchfield box cars that are big FPS killers - even Matt acknowledget this, said they will look into it, but they never got fixed.
    Scenery can also be messed up. At one point is was found that something with the scenery layers/tiles causes them sometimes to ALWAYS render at full LOD, regardless of distance. This way tried out on several routes, if you set the game to use basically 0 render distance (meaning no scenery should render at all), quite big chuncks of scenery still spawned on the route. This might have been fixed since, I don't know, but I remember it was an issue in TSW2.
     
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  42. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    If you know anything about coding/game development, it's not hard to tell.

    You can try to defend it in any way, but TSW3 is not a new software. It's not more than a core update re-released under a new name. TSW2 was already questionable, but at least TSW2 meant an UE version change, which made it somewhat acceptable.
     
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  43. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    It's more just that a lot of people are intimately familiar with UE4 development given its ubiquity nowadays and how freely available its documentation is, and as a result many know how to spot the telltale signs of particular issues emerging from the engine and how a developer is utilising it.
     
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  44. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Well-Known Member

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    Yeah there was a engine version changes between TSW (4.16) and TSW 2 (4.23) but then there was engine change between TSW 2 (4.23) and TSW 2 Rush Hour (4.26) and it was free :) And then upgrade from 4.26 to 4.26 is payware (TSW 3) :D
     
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  45. yardem

    yardem Well-Known Member

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    I've uploaded a video that shows what I'm talking about.
    The average FPS for the whole game is quite high, but these temporary drops are annoying to the point I cannot play.


    The recorded gameplay was 4k @ Ultra, except for Sky Quality which is set to Low.
     
  46. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    That is a bit abrupt and I agree - it is disturbing-- but I haven't seen such drops and I am running all settings on Ultra. (Specs I9-12900, 32G DDR4 Ram and GeoForce RTX 3090 TI) . On my lower spec Laptop - I have seen frame rate drops when loading - but nothing like what your video shows.
     
  47. ctlee#2068

    ctlee#2068 Active Member

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    I think it is stutter.
    I use RTX-3050, i5-12400, 1920*1080. It is OK on RDR2, medium level settings.
    But small stutter is everywhere in TSW3, even low level settings.
    I have 5 routes.
    Large stutter in Cajon yard, Dresden-Riesa city area.
    Small stutter per minute in Kassel-Würzburg, because it is too fast.
    I suspect that all high-speed rail are bad.
    By the way, SKW is boring. "You have the longest route and the longest boring tunnel. I really don't understand who would want this?" said by other.
    I bought Dresden-Riesa, I think it is typical German route.
    DTG chose SKW, because it is easy to create. But still a lot of problems.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    No official explanation to me.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2023
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  48. bartolomaeusz

    bartolomaeusz Well-Known Member

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    Based on Dresden-Reisa and its Stutter, I took some of the advice here: Lowered max frame-rate to 40, turned V-Sync off, and lowered the Sky quality. With dynamic weather it always ends up raining anyway. After these changes there seemed to be a lot less Stutter on this Route.
     
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  49. olsbyn

    olsbyn Active Member

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    I had frame drops like these when I first started the game, I use some custom settings so it's somewhere between high and ultra, then I took note of how much fps it dropped to and then capped the fps to 53, which was 5 fps above what it normally dropped to, and now it's not so noticable.
    I don't have a 4k screen though, I have a 144Hz 1920x1080 and locking it to 53 fps still works great.
     
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