Currently sat on a GWR 802 running late from Paddington, and thought folks would be interested to see the max speed recorded on my GPS-they’re supposed to be limited to 125! My first journey on these trains and I’m impressed.
It doesn’t seem to be. It was steady at 125 for most of the time, but we spent a few minutes at 140 based on my GPS. I saw a post the other day from a few years ago where someone clocked a HST doing 138 near Reading.
I’m very skeptical to be honest. GWR class 800s have ATP (automatic train protection) and on top of that, the whole fleet has had a speed limiter fitted to it of a speed of 200kph (124mph) following a few speeding incidents on the East Coast so even 125mph is unachievable now. From a look at Real time trains and an educated guess of which train you’re travelling on, it hasn’t made up any time either which I expect it would have had it been speeding considerably even only for a few minutes.
Perhaps, but can only go on what my GPS is showing me . I was surprised as I thought they were limited, so maybe just a glitch, but thought it worthy of a post anyway
GPS is good but it has a couple of accuracy flaws. it can only read the earths surface as flat, if you are going up (or more likely in this case down) an incline it will read that you've travelled a shorter distance than you actually have.. Self test this theory... Get a ruler or even your mobile phone, hold either completely level and look down directly over it, now tilt it either forward or backward, it now looks shorter than when it was level, GPS does exactly the same it calculates the distance by the amount of time it takes to cross that distance, if the distance appears shorter the recorded speed will be higher. Also accuracy is affected on curvy windy "a to b" points, it will calculate distance in a relatively "as the crow flies" line again reducing the perceived distance. I dare say the IET was travelling at full speed and possibly even slightly over and maybe even a curve or two thrown in
Don't trust phone based "GPS". Half the time it's not even using GPS, but cell tower data. It also dismisses terrain height... and so does GPS for that matter now I come to think about it.GPS is not a great way to measure ground speed. Air speed, fine... ground speed, no. There's no way you were doing 140. A driver doing 140 would be dismissed pretty quickly I would imagine.
The only way this would have been possible is that European Train control system the European version of US Canada positive train control system active for the route. If you want to see this in game you might as well try looking at a PTG Rail run Reading to Paddington assuming the train originated from Penzance on the Western Main lines route
Its people like this that get people disciplined or the sack or cause unnecessary grief. Use your head before posting rubbish like this. As someone who drives trains it amazes me the amount of enthusiasts that can't wait to get drivers or other staff into trouble. There's no way this would be doing 15 mph over the limit for a sustained period of time. Even if it was the case drivers are human and we do make mistakes but we don't need them plastered all over the net.
I don't think GWR will be taking this guy's phone app seriously. Modern trains have far more sophisticated ways of logging their speed, don't worry.
I know, I drive them every day and like I say posts like this can and do get people into trouble. Yes this app is probably inaccurate but its certainly not helpful to anything and people need to exercise a bit more caution when posting things like this.
No what I mean is it opens up scrutiny from people when you don't need it to. What if the company decide to do a download anyway that otherwise wouldn't have been done , it can then lead to further issues. We have enough scrutiny as it is without people posting stuff and giving companies further reason to snoop at us.
Some companies could (and do) get pissy over perceived bad publicity. And before the "I doubt the corporate arm of GWR will be reading the forums lololz", one of their Sons or Daughters may, or just about anyone else could butterfly effect it up the food chain for that matter, there's not as big a separation between simulators and the real world as you may think, look how many irl railworkers in one guise or another play the sim, watch the streamers, and aspired to be an irl railworker because of this very sim! There was a news report not long ago, what did they use for an image? Yep A TSC screenshot, it's no wonder with the ineptitude of the MSM that companies would get twitchy about this. I'm sure 95% of the online mainstream media just use bots to sift through the internet hoping to find something to 'print', guess what, this forum is on that internet.
So a driver would get found out for doing/not doing something - if he had/hadn't it would not be a problem. The download might take place because of an incident involving that unit
In one ear and out the other, I give up. Completely missing the point, as usual on here. People have lost their livelihoods because of spotters etc plastering things over the net that they thought was interesting. Sometimes you have no idea the implications it causes. What might seem harmless to people that don't work on the railway can genuinely change peoples lives for the worse but its ok as long people get to chat about it on the net. Similar things to this have been posted on twitter etc and once a company sees it they WILL investigate it. A driver doesn't need extra stress in a job already full of it as it is. That leads to people doubting themselves and potentially opening up the increased risks of having actual incidents.
Is that because somebody does not agree with you? I used to work on the railway driving trains. One of our drivers was accused by a member of PW staff of going too fast over a section of line. That is somebody working on the track - not a member of pubic sitting at a computer The unit had an OTMR download and proved the driver did nothing wrong. Yes, if a accusation is made then an OTMR Download takes place but the driver might not even know as they won't be accused of anything until the company has proof of him doing something wrong.
Well as someone who used to drive trains you should understand more then anyone or maybe you're one of those manager types that likes to see others get in a pickle. Plenty of brown nosers on the railway. As for your last statement about not being accused of doing anything wrong until its proved, its obviously been a long time since you worked on the railway as its more like a constant fishing expedition now from management to try and find something to throw at the driver. The only ones who don't generally see it are the ones normally doing the fishing. All im saying is that people need to think more about what they post, sometimes it seems harmless but doesn't always end up being that. Everyone makes mistakes and let's be fair, if every mistake we made was punished and scrutinised I doubt there would be many trains running around.
Some people just won't accept that they are wrong LOL. Peter drove trains for a living. How are you qualified to argue with him? I can report as many train drivers as I want, but I won't be getting anyone into trouble unless the equipment onboard the train they are driving shows that they are doing anything wrong.
Have you not read anything I wrote, i'm a qualified train driver and have been for the last 15 years and currently an instructor so i'm more then qualified thank you. Why do you think I wrote what i did? So I'm not wrong and I'm actually someone who has to put up with the likes of you reporting us as I do the job in the real world and not just in front of a pc. I'm not interested in whether Peter WAS as driver, hes obviously not now and I am so i think I'm in a far better position then either of you two to comment. I know exactly whats it like to be under further scrutiny when you don't need it and the job is high pressure enough as it is without people like looking to get us into trouble for their own gains. Yes if the drivers done nothing wrong then ultimately they should be cleared but its the extra spotlight that we as drivers just don't need so don't tell me I'm wrong. Having an opinion is fine but trying to tell a qualified driver how things work on the railway currently is laughable. You simply have no idea what you're talking about.
Then you'll know that your speed is logged. What scrutiny? What do you mean cleared? You talk as if every complaint the operating company receives results in drivers being suspended until some kind of inquest is held. There's always at least one idiot on a train with his phone out "measuring" the speed. There must be a lot of suspended drivers What scrutiny would the driver be under apart from the time event recorder being read? If I was in a job where my vehicle was constantly recording data, I wouldn't be remotely concerned... unless I knew I was speeding that is, in which case I'd deserve whatever is coming to me. No one takes phone GPS apps seriously, as the vast majority of the time, they aren't using GPS... which is why the system used on mobile devices is call AGPS. A meaning 'assisted'. It's using timing signals from cell towers, and the faster you are travelling, the less accurate it becomes as it only confirms cell tower data with GPS timings around once per minute. The system is designed to locate you when you are static, not measure your speed when you're hurtling down the GWML at 120mph. Stop being a drama queen. No one got into any trouble. The fact is though, if he was doing 140mph, he deserves to be under scrutiny, surely. He wasn't though. AGPS just sucks.
Many big egos here. I can absolutely understand the point class2ldn2801 is making. Even if you think that making such information public, bei it true or false, could not get anyone into trouble - there is a chance it could. Do we want that?
Ego has nothing to do with it. It's absurd to suggest that all it takes for me to get a driver into trouble is to send a screenshot of my phone with a big number on it to the operating company. Just look at the trains event recorder. Only if he was actually speeding, and If he was speeding... actually.... yes.. yes I do want that. When I get on a train, I'd rather I also got off again at my destination.
Sometimes yes that's all it takes to get people in trouble or cast an unwanted eye onto someone by management. Even if its pretty obvious in this instance its not reliable. There's been numerous times things on twitter or FB have had companies digging deeper into the actions of drivers and if a driver becomes aware of it and knows they are being potentially investigated it can add unneeded pressure. Believe me when I say there is a culture among the railway that seems to try and target drivers and catch us out at every opportunity. There are a lot of people that want to get further up the ladder and they'll have no issues in trying to chuck a drivers career away by passing on things from sites like this and other social media sites. It can be quite a hostile place at times on the railway. Its not about being a drama queen and I apologise if I've come across as rude at any point but people need to realise that's sometimes things like this can turn into something serious.
Yes I was a Driver - I'm not now as I retired in 2016 at 60 having got 44 years on the railway. Never was a manager but it is easy to spot staff who think "the big man is out to get them". Makes me think "what are they doing wrong?" Maybe it is the company you work for if they are accusing drivers of doing something they haven't - especially with OTMR. Either way we have a difference of opinion so lets just leave it at that.
I'm not involved with the railways, but I do work in a heavily regulated industry that is a popular target for the press and politicians. These things can have all sorts of unexpected outcomes. A complaint is made and maybe the complaint isn't upheld, but in the process some tech is examined that reveals private comments that weren't intended for scrutiny, or maybe the investigation finds that some other piece of equipment hasn't been properly maintained, or is out of ticket, so the engineer gets blamed, even though they've got far too much work, or haven't been properly trained on the equipment, etc, etc. I have sympathy with the point being made by class2ldn2801. Don't start shouting about things that are potentially disciplinable without being sure of your facts and the outcome you want.
Does that mean something should not be found out? And if it's not how long to another Clapham? Clapham Jn - 12 December 1988 "An independent inquiry chaired by Anthony Hidden, QC found that the signalling technician responsible had not been told that his working practices were wrong, and his work had not been inspected by an independent person."
And who got punished? The technician, or the manager(s) who let an unskilled person work unsupervised? Too often the wrong person gets punished. In any case many disciplinable activities are not dangerous.
Unfortunately most companies seem to be like it now, I wasn't trying to say about covering stuff up either but if every discrepancy a driver did was picked up on there'd be no trains running lol. Fair play for doing 44 years, not sure il be reaching that or wanting to in the current climate haha.
If merely coming to someone's attention would be enough to get someone in trouble, I'm not sure I'd want that person driving the train I was sitting in. I mean, why would merely being brought to someone's attention get them into trouble unless they were actually doing something wrong? If you've nothing to hide, and you are doing your job well, then what's the problem? If you're LOVE at your job, cut corners, and ignore rules in such a job, then good, quite frankly. Good riddance.
Hahaha you do come out with some stuff lmao. Yet again spurting out stuff you don't have the first idea about. Do you know how easy it can be to lose this job? Its not about making mistakes of the magnitude you're describing, it can be far far less. Il leave it there now as we are going round in circles.
No I'm not. That's what this entire thread, and your response to it, is all about: This screenshot of his GPS app, because you think it's going to get someone into trouble. As for sticking to the simulator, gladly... if your job is that precarious that something as laughable as this will get your fired, then I'm glad I never pursued it as a career.
It was looking at the bigger picture of information being posted online that could potentially cause issues. What do you not understand about that? I'm also glad you haven't pursued the career as well tbh.
I suspect anything over 200km/h sustained* would probably flag for a download regardless of enthusiasts. 225km/h would probably be ringing alarm bells in control given modern vehicles send live telemetry. It's a GPS Spike, these happen, especially when the device has degraded signal as the positional accuracy can vary wildly. *a brief drift over that is quickly corrected would most likely be ignored
Yeah in this particular scenario its obviously an error with GPS but doesn't mean GWR wont potentially flag it up as something to look into in more detail. Would probably be fruitless but the point I was making was that if it wasn't posted in the first place nobody would even be asking about it. I have no doubt the OP didn't post it with any intention of it being an issue I was just saying be careful with what people post as you just don't know who's reading these forums. Anyway lets all move on now.
Except the 80x have a limiter which means the driver could not exceed 125mph/200kph even if he tried.
