Leaked Tsw Class 700/0

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by MikeOxlong, Mar 14, 2023.

  1. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I don't know much about consoles, my last was a PS2, but presumably if it won't work on a PS4 then basically there isn't much you can do about it apart from upgrade. Therefore surely a sensible PS4 owner would accept they won't get the layers.

    I would happily sacrifice the HST layers and the fictional SE services on BML if it helped to facilitate a class 700 layer.
     
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  2. Tom Fresco

    Tom Fresco Well-Known Member

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  3. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    I can say this, gen 9 isn’t “near its limit” gen 9 works perfectly well with BML. I barely get frame drops with gen 9 on BML apart from the occasional tile stutter, it’s more about optimisation, Msfs can load in heathrow without lag, so it shouldn’t be too hard to make a well optimised route
     
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  4. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It isn't a question of framerate- it's how many trains the dispatcher can handle before it fritzes out.
     
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  5. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. In the real world, if things start getting congested firstly the signaller will review train regulation to sort out the tangle.

    At the next level the NR Train Running Controller (TRC) and TOC/FOC Service Controller(s) will start looking at a contingency plan to restore normal working. This includes, but not limited to - running services fast to get back on time, turning around/starting short (known as "Pine" and "Calvin") or in extreme cases cancelling entire round trips.* Freight might get put away in a loop to await a suitable path with return workings retimed to mitigate knock on delay minutes. No matter how good the AI Signaller, it is not reasonable to expect it to fulfil a role actually involving several parties, considerable negotiation and occasionally dissent, even when the TRC was trying to implement an agreed and laid down contingency plan.

    *Which sounds easy on paper but not the case always in practice. Within reason trains will do what you want so long as there is enough fuel and maintenance requirements can be met. However crews are a different matter, driver and guard working back to their home station are unlikely to want to head back in the opposite direction. You could quickly run out of space "stacking and racking" trains, unless they could be cleared to a depot or stabling point. That also requires a driver, both to take them out of service and bring them back out when the pertubation is over.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2023
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  6. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Well-Known Member

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    I do it for a living now, (well as a Duty Control Manager) best job in the world in my opinion!
     
  7. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I was a TRC at Swindon (retired in 2017!) and prior to that DCM for Arriva Trains Wales and their predecessor incarnations. Challenging at times but very rewarding and the pension is nice too!
     
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  8. squerble

    squerble Active Member

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    Great link! Just added this - adds 83 services, all seem to be 9Pxx head codes running between Rainham and Luton (as far as Dartford), with a few 5Pxx earlier in the day, and a "Drive this Thameslink service..." welcome as the game loads.

    Nice to see the 700 will have the Thameslink name too, or so it seems!
     
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  9. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    Couldn't agree more - the Class 700 absolutely HAS come to London Commuter at some point regardless, even if just Gen 9 initially. While the 700 would be a very welcome addition to SEHS, it's the BML which is its proper home route and would seem very odd to have a 700 finally in TSW without it actually being there. :|

    If memory etc is indeed a factor for London Commuter, then, please DTG, the 700/0 for all Thameslink services would absolutely suffice. I still remain optimistic though as the /0 does serve the BML. Moreover, the /0 on its own as an initial loco DLC makes a lot more sense when considering for both SEHS and London Commuter than just a /1 - why? Because the /0 wouldn't feel out of place on either routes, whereas just a /1 on Rainham SEHS services would seem very out of place.
     
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  10. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    I just want a thameslink so it gives the potential to future routes such as the fast/semifast trains to cambridge and the semifasts to peterborough
     
  11. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, I think most here would love a modern ECML and MML South with the Class 700. But, the utmost priority is for the 700 to be on London Commuter beforehand though. Imagine how epic it would be to have almost complete services in TSW from Brighton to Bedford and Cambridge or Three Bridges (from Horsham in reality) to Peterborough etc. :love:
     
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  12. pessitheghost

    pessitheghost Well-Known Member

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    i agree definitely
     
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  13. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    It wouldn’t be the first time if DTG would use a different emu variant as they have done in ECW, BML, and SEHS with the trains from the medway line….
     
  14. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

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    Another thing to add here is that it would be nice if a PIS could be added to Platform 0 at Rainham (if there is one in reality which I assume there is). At the moment only 1 and 2 have PIS.

    20230322091511_1.jpg
     
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  15. MAX1319

    MAX1319 Well-Known Member

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    Nothing new I guess. Is been really quiet
     
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  16. olly.smail

    olly.smail Well-Known Member

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    the roadmap on tuesday will be when we probably get more info
     
  17. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I really hope we hear something soon, so excited! :) Though I don't mind waiting if it means better quality and gameplay overall.

    With the 700, I really hope this means a similar upgrade to London Commuter like what Boston and the Acela had. Thus my wish in this order is as follows:

    - Have the 700 added to London Commuter's timetable
    - London Commuter gets TOD 4 lighting/skies
    - Have the route extended to Lewes with the Wivelsfield branch
    - Have the route's scenery updated, Reigate especially
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2023
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  18. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    The 700 is for SEHS, at most BML will get a layer.
     
  19. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    Has that been confirmed? I can't see why London Commuter can't get an upgrade to TOD 4 though, especially considering it's the 700's home route...
     
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  20. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    it’s the 700/1’s home route, we’re getting the 700/0, which primarily services the Rainham to Luton route.

    They aren’t just gonna do a TOD 4 update out of the blue either, these have all come with route specific DLC’s so far.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2023
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  21. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    I think it would be a HUGE mistake not to have TOD4 come to BML with the Class 700 DLC- they did it on Sherman Hill and that was just a livery pack.

    SEHS has gotten like 5 DLCs at this point PLUS an extension.


    BML needs some love!
     
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  22. olly.smail

    olly.smail Well-Known Member

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    memory issues are the only reason BML isn’t included
     
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  23. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. But with the London Commuter timetable already super busy - and would be even more so with the 700 - thus what other DLC would that leave for a further specific DLC for the route? Obviously, there's the /1 as you say, but surely that would mean the 700 would essentially be two separate DLC with the /0 and /1 - which doesn't make any sense.

    Regarding its home route, I meant the 700 in general as both the /0 and /1 serve the Brighton Main Line and it's home to one of its depots too.

    What about Gen 9 and PC?
     
  24. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Realistically though, DTG aren’t going to sell a DLC for one route and bundle it with an upgrade for another.

    DTG probably will get round to something for BML eventually, but they haven’t even got all the TSW 2 features in it, so TOD 4 (which is more of a sideways move than an upgrade), can wait in line as far as I’m concerned.
     
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  25. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    You’re probably going to be waiting for a 700/1 included with something else before you get one for BML.

    Im not saying that the 700/0 shouldn’t go onto BML since it does run a few services there, but it won’t be it’s home route & therefore the 700/0 is not going to come with an upgrade for the BML. It will be a layer at most, and it’s a long shot you get that.

    As for other DLC, they always have the opportunity to do loco bundles for it, that’s the way stuff like SMH has had its upgrades. BML also has plenty of opportunity for a plethora of revised timetables such as slam door stock, 442 & 460 era’s.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2023
  26. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    Extensions can't happen and it's massive to combine ecw and bml in terms of services and all.
     
  27. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    I agree its already bad enough that they are going to layer it onto Gen 9 and PC only like they did for the 313. (My guess as to what's happening. Not confimed.)

    But to upgrade it to TOD4 for Gen9 and PC only wouldn't make sense and the backlash would be high if they did do that.

    But then again they have always told us that Gen 9 and PC wouldn't be held back by Gen 8 consoles. It seems BML is the only exception if they don't at least layer it onto BML.
     
  28. alex.flume

    alex.flume Member

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    Hoping we hear something about this in the roadmap on Tuesday. I agree with the other posts here, it would be a big shame if the Class 700 doesn't layer onto BML. I know in reality the 700/1 would be the right choice for BML, but personally, I wouldn't mind the 700. The more traffic the better.
     
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  29. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    If that were to happen they might as well merge it with Eastcoast way finally making 1F09 & 1F96 playable from London Victoria to Seaford both ways.
     
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  30. mbjbjm#7281

    mbjbjm#7281 Well-Known Member

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    BML while a great route. Is old and pretty much filled out. The 700 was built with the new extended SEHS in mind.
     
  31. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    How do we know which route it was built for?

    It's not like DTG haven't put the wrong subclass on a route before lol

    If they extended SEHS, why not BML? Lewes via Wivelsfield would be pretty simple (certainly well within the scope of what was done for SEHS 2.0)

    I just think it's crazy for them to let the best timetable on TSW rot away in TSW2 purgatory.
     
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  32. coursetim

    coursetim Well-Known Member

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    I know Joe left room for a 700 its just that the route needs optimisation pass overs as Matt said on the stream before they can add to it :)
     
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  33. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    the problem would be having to possibly rebuild a large portion of the timetable if it gets extended and with thousands of services, it gets quite massive and complicated
     
  34. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    AIUI, Joe used the real-life timetable; at present trains taking the Wivelsfield branch exit through a portal, but those routes could be rewritten easily enough
     
  35. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

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    It's pretty clear that a Lewes extension from Wivelsfield should be trivial. As you say, only the services that begin and end from that branch would need extending (not many) and Lewes itself already exists, so it should be *far* less work than even just the Dartford extension of SEHS (which had I think five brand new stations compared to the two on the Wivelsfield branch), never mind the additional extension work that took the HS1 line all the way to Ashford and the accompanying depot.

    Frankly (as I've said before) I would merge ECW with BML and include the Wivelsfield branch as the new extension. You might think that's mad but ECW is a relatively ancient route now and I would imagine sales have slowed to a trickle, so why not? ECW is in dire need of an upgraded timetable anyway given that all of the Victoria - Eastbourne services are missing and I think it still uses AI timings too (could be wrong though). Also solves the issue of having two separate versions of the 377 to maintain (optimistically thinking that it might ever actually be patched...).
     
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  36. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    This is what i'm talking about- a little vision goes a long way- hoping DTG are thinking along the same lines
     
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  37. Redbus

    Redbus Well-Known Member

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    For TSW4 a merge of BML and ECW would be a fine thing, with the aforementioned Wivelsfield connection and an extension onward to Hastings.
     
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  38. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, this isn't meant to be an attack, but why does this have to wait until TSW4?

    They've shown it can be done in TSW3 with SEHS, so it's not like they need to concoct some programming magic to make it happen- it would be a route project like any other, and probably less intensive since almost all the assets, tracks, and signalling are already there.

    I guess i just get a little frustrated by new features that are introduced and then seemingly forgotten about, and then it becomes almost gospel that it cannot be done again (Dresden night lighting, SEHS extension, longer routes like KWG and Cajon, etc, etc)...

    Anyway like i said, not an attack, but just happened to get me thinking
     
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  39. Wivenswold

    Wivenswold Well-Known Member

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    Given that the BML timetable is pretty unrealistic with an over-reliance on 387s on the Brighton services and an absence of 377/6 and /7s then I don't think it's a stretch to suggest that a completely recast timetable might be in the works for when the 700/1 is released, it could come with the stretch to Blackfriars to make it worth buying the same unit again but with 4 extra coaches.

    And then do the same with an updated version in TSC.
     
  40. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Simply because SEHS is not an extension in the traditional sense. It only came as a re-release and didn't come as a free update or extension DLC (technically it did if you bought any pack that didn't have SEHS while owning SEHS on TSW2, but still paying either way).

    A BML Extension of this sort would be incredibly unlikely because it would be the first real extension, and therefore unlikely.

    TOD4 and the 700 - provided it works without crashing every time - would do it enough justice.
     
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  41. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Simply because SEHS is not an extension in the traditional sense. It only came as a re-release and didn't come as a free update or extension DLC (technically it did if you bought any pack that didn't have SEHS while owning SEHS on TSW2, but still paying either way).

    A BML Extension of this sort would be incredibly unlikely because it would be the first real extension, and therefore unlikely.

    TOD4 and the 700 - provided it works without crashing every time - would do it enough justice.
     
  42. I think dtg should just leave bml well alone. It's a great route and looks good as is.
     
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  43. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know, that just seems like semantics on whether SEHS a "real" extension or not- it certainly wasn't rebuilt from scratch in any case.

    Yes, i'd certainly be happy with the 700 and TOD4 on BML, but I just think the potential to do something bigger should explored- especially since my suspicion is that once TOD4 comes to a route, that'll pretty much be the end of development on it for the forseeable future (i.e. before TSW4 or TSW5).
     
  44. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

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    The Meissen branch was also added post release to Dresden-Riesa including extending timetable services appropriately (and there are certainly more services on that branch than there are from Wivelsfield - Lewes).
     
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  45. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, it's all pure speculation at the moment. SEHS just literally got a second loco DLC (three if you count the 465 with the TSW 2 version), plus the 700/0 makes more sense for both SEHS and London Commuter compared with just the /1.
    Agreed. The Wivelsfield branch to Lewes is just 9 miles of countryside with two very small rural stations.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2023
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  46. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    Firstly, Thameslink services wouldn't serve the busiest part of the route between East Croydon and Victoria. Secondly, several Thameslink services would have brand-new service patterns, thus serving stations like Horley, Salfords, Earlswood which are not currently served in London Commuter at all. Additionally, if you note with some GX services from London Commuter arrive at Brighton up to 10 minutes early which, according to Joe from the London Commuter preview stream (see 1hr 43 minutes in first DTG preview), reckoned this was because of the real-life timetable, thus the GX service would have had a slower Thameslink service ahead.
     
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  47. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, ECW does need a major update - and, yes, you are correct, still AI timings. :( Much agreed too regarding the older 377 version and missing Victoria-Eastbourne/Ore services; another frustrating issue with ECW is the missing AI services at Brighton, namely no GX 387s etc.

    Absolutely, imagine having an epic London Commuter timetable already, plus the 700, having the Wivelsfield branch, and then having this absolutely stunning scenery (see below) if they merged it with ECW and extended the route to Hastings/Ore! :love:

    Photo taken by me
    Bexhill 1.jpg

    While I totally agree it's brilliant as is (my favourite route in TSW overall), with the 700 in TSW, it has to come to London Commuter otherwise what's the actual point of this loco DLC if just for a 40-minute Rainham-Luton service on SEHS - it would be like having Flying Scotsman, but could only be used on West Somerset instead of ECML...
     
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  48. Got no objections for thameslink to be added to bml. I think current gen consols and pc would handle the extra services no problem.
    The new sky and lighting though, don't do old routes justice. At dawn or dusk it looks nice but throughout the day it doesn't look as natural as the old system.
     
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  49. Mkdog45

    Mkdog45 Well-Known Member

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    Two teasers of the 700 on twitter.
    First using 700 miles and the second you have the 08:02 to Rainham.
    IMG_0504.jpeg
    IMG_0505.jpeg
     
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  50. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Screenshot_20230401_103538.jpg
    No. 3. I'm guessing that the "move 7 times" is the teaser here.
     
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