Midland Mainline - Leicester To Derby & Nottingham

Where did you watch his reaction?

 

Based on the stream, my impression is positive. There’ll always be details which are good or bad, but the overall feel of the route, in my view, captures the Midland Mainline (a route I know well) very effectively.

Although it’s a modern route, the traction chosen has some history and character to it. Rather than the non-descript hum of modern EMUs we’ve got the scream of a Valenta (not the wonderful original, but you can’t have everything) and the highly distinctive hydraulic roar of a 158 - which is beautifully re-created. I’ve spent many, many hours on 158s, and hearing those sounds on the stream put me right there, on the unit.

The major weakness of the route is, of course, it’s length - no journey is long enough to be a realistic recreation of the time for which a Driver would be driving a particular train in real life - but hopefully we’ll get an extension one day, and in the mean time, I can live with it.

I’ll be pre-ordering. Well done to Skyhook on what looks like a really good first effort at a TSW route, and thank you for giving us trains with a bit of character and history rather than more modern EMUs.

 

Overall this route gives me GWE vibes, for better and for worse. On the one hand it didn't feel too alive, not many trains in the stations, not encountering much traffic, and for the most part an A to B route without much challenge. On the other hand though, the trains look and sound great, the express services offer a very comfortable running time of only 30 mins, so more than easy enough to fit this into a busy weeknight schedule, and the scenery was lovely for the most part (I noticed some weird hedges at the start that looked like furry air raid shelters though).

BR-era traction like the 158 is too much of a draw for me to not get this route, and I'm fairly content to trundle up and down GWE despite it not being the most fun you can have in the game, so having another British route that offers something similar but different (and not an electrostar in sight!), whilst bringing an updated HST to the game seems like a good addition overall.

Looking forward to the user created scenarios and mods too.

 

It's Sky Hook Games not Just Trains who created this route

 

If Just Trains had made this is would have been magnitudes better than it is.

I think it looks like a typical TSW route to be honest. Dead, lifeless, poorly lit (possibly the worst to date), totally lacking in any railway atmosphere (empty station platforms, no line-side clutter or railway equipment) and full of the usual issues with a few more added to boot.

Have a look at this for developers who actually care about what they’re doing, and see how many of the fundamental elements of the route are completely absent in this version. Remember, if you’re on PC you don’t have to put up with this rubbish.

 

Looking and sounding good. I'm glad I broke the habit of a lifetime and pre-ordered to save a few quid. I can't see this route been price-dropped too quickly because of the length and quality. It's about as long as London Commuter when you think about it and nobody complained about that.. DTG this sort of route and release of more than one train needs to be set-up as your minimum yardstick for future releases. No more single train routes without any layering on top please. Pick a route with lots of varied stock and over time complete it.

 

get this troll banned

 

Ah yes, the arrogance of the "PC master race"

 

Must admit after reading the overnight comments have a slight regret about pre ordering. It seems the route comes in around B- to use old school exam grades with the traction (maybe) B+. Can’t help thinking that DTG and their associates are starting to push what they can get away with for the new £30 price tag. In every way, this is a route that would have represented better value at the old £25 price level, with £22.50 for the pre order.

Still the proof will be in the trying but I don’t think anyone should hold out much hope that the flagged issues will get addressed post release in any meaningful way. The woeful lighting will stay, the odd shadows in the cab will stay, the minimalist lineside clutter (have these guys never played Snowrunner?) that reminds us of MSTS will stay. For me the main hope is that the 158 does live up to expectations in the sound and physics department and that we will start to see it appearing elsewhere.

 

Er…no. Simply pointing out that there is another, better, option if you happen to own a PC. You buy a console you make your bed. Afraid that’s not my problem.

OldVern If you run the two route videos side by side (the JT and Skyhook versions) the difference is glaring. The TSW version is track and trees interspersed with stations. The TSC version looks like reality. The difference is night and day, it’s also £19.99

 

Re. the price increases; I'm not defending them, but you may have noticed inflation is virtually out of control in the real world and this obviously must be affecting DTG too. They have overheads and they have salaries to pay. To think that somehow DTG are immune from this is a little naive. The way I look at is how many hours of enjoyment can you get out of this dlc? Then compare that with the price of going to a premier league football game or the cinema for the latest movie - both experiences giving you what; just 90-120 minutes of pleasure? Personally I think it's a fair deal AS LONG as the product is of a justifiable quality for the price tag.

 

Yes, yes we had all that debate when they did put the price up, along with the fact that some entertainment items like CD’s (I’m an old dinosaur who still buys them occasionally) and Blu-ray/4K disc have not gone up. DTG’s own TSC range has remained at £25 even the new stuff. So IMHO they are gouging the price just a bit on TSW.

 

I suppose at the end of the day it all comes down to personal choice. I've stopped going to football and instead have a very good deal with Sky Sports - but I'm digressing! I guess TSC prices have been held because it's an old game whereas TSW3 is more cutting edge. But in all honesty I get as much pleasure out of that older game and actually more of a buzz when I get a good score or medal in that. But if I want eye candy then it's TSW3. I've never paid full list price for anything in TSW3, this pre-order discount is the closest I've come because I like the content. If they did the South London network or the Overground on the East London Line then I'd probably pay over the odds - don't tell DTG though !!!

 

You see, this I don’t get. You have to buy third party content granted, and you need a PC with some grunt, but TSC as it is on my PC is a way better looking game than TSW3. That preview stream of MML looks really really poor IMHO.

I think given recent developments with TSC DTG have realised that TSW just isn’t cutting the mustard as a replacement and are now taking steps to have their cake and eat it. I’m all for that if everyone gets to benefit from it.

 

Think the trains look & sound really good. Big fan of both the HST & 158.

However it won’t be a day one for me as I’m not really feeling the route & my OCD for not being able to take the train to the destination but a little section in the middle spoils the experience for me.

May look to pick up in future sales, but my hope is these trains can be used in future routes in other liveries.

 

Funny enough I've had a recent return to TSC too, mostly because I like the more challenging nature of the scenarios in career mode and also the longer routes generally, along with the masses of user created content to add to the game. I'm now playing both equally. I think TSW3 offers more eye candy, though the more recent routes in TSC are catching up, though getting shorter too! I guess we're fortunate to have both, and especially that TSC is getting a free core update which is very good news.
As for looks I guess that depends on the rigs we all use to run the games.
I am a sucker for UK routes and always tend to buy them at some stage. MML was too much of a lure for me at 10% discount with the new rolling stock. It's not local to me, but the 158 is very welcome and I think the livery is spectacular, though far to clean...

 

Anyone else notice how low and wide the gaps between some of the platforms are compared to the trains?

 

Looks like approach control signalling is implemented which is good to see.
Still don't understand why we can't have a decent looking speed sign set of assets in tsw, for uk routes. The current signs are not good, to put it mildly.

 

It was a live stream he does, it wasn't a reaction to the MML live stream, it was him commenting on the pictures of the 158.

 

One thing I noticed looking back on the stream, is that Leicester-Nottingham and vice-versa stoppers seem very few and far between on the Class 158, with 2 to 3 hour gaps. Usually it’s an hourly service!

Now things I’m thinking;

1. intentional and authentic, because in reality they were never all diagrammed for a Class 158 anyway.

2. Speculation! But room for a new DLC with the missing services filled by a 156 or 153 which would be prototypical at the time?

 

I don’t have a lot of interest in the route itself. But I was curious about the rolling stock. Both the trains look and sound very nice.

For me it’s going to be the question of where else the trains get used. I’m sure they mentioned on stream (I was tired so didn’t properly pay attention). That there will be an HST layer for SEH. So that may swing my decision if it’s true. So I’ll rewatch later and check that out.

 

Well, firstly that stream was hard to watch as it had such an awkward atmosphere.

Secondly, this DLC is filled to the brim with inconsistencies in quality & returning bugs (still). The latter I cannot put up with after a price increase.

I think the route did seem lifeless, but it wasn’t the timetable, it was how simplistic and barren the landscape was. As JetWash above has already pointed out, this route exists already to much higher standard in TSC, it’s a shame that the scenery is such a massive downgrade.

Generally I just get a bad vibe from this one, which is a shame since out of every DLC to exist in TSW, this one is closest to the content I’d prefer.

 

Yes I've seen an official screenshot of the Midland HST in the SE map, there's a Javelin behind it.

 

Re TSC, must admit I’m probably more looking forward to the new Japanese route which releases later today, than MML.

 

I have to say this is my biggest issue with many TSW routes, it is an immersion thing for me. A driver wouldn't pick up a HST at Derby and drive it to Leicester or vice versa or a Matlock to Newark service at Derby and drive to Nottingham. The new steam route will be even worse in that regard.

If we are to suspend belief and put ourselves in the role of the driver, then for me, not only do the routes and trains have to be as realistic as reasonably possible but the operational side of it does too, especially for what are local services, long distance services you could imagine not driving the complete distance, at least if there is a proper destination featured at one end.

I will pre-order the route as I have seen enough positives about it but I hope it gets more development in terms of DLC and maybe an extension to Sheffield at least, Lincoln would be great too. If in a years time it is still in release state then I am afraid I will think twice about purchasing any more Skyhook products, this is my first.

 

Skyhook

Again, I feel like you can't compare these games.
Also, the amount of clutter in Snowrunner isn't there for decoration, it is usually there to artificially extend the playtime by creating needless obstacles and pointless diversions.
They learnt rather quickly from Kola Penninsula that too much clutter (and snow) just causes more grief than good.

 

I keep going back to TSC, looking at it then shutting it down again and then firing up TSW and just think TSW looks so much more realistic, which pains me to say it as I have sunk much time and money into TSC, even with all the enhancements and RW enhancer. I have cut down TSC to a handful of very good quality, mostly freeware routes, mostly steam period too as that is where TSW is lacking. Even driving on GWE last night on TSW for the first time in ages I realised I couldn't go back to the JT version on TSC even if it is full length. I think if TSC got some kind of service mode I would definitely reconsider but I have got tired of spending hours making scenarios or downloading them and hunting around for stock. And quick drive does nothing for me. Pottering up to Wearhead in a J21 with a mixed freight is still very immersive though and something I highly doubt will ever come to TSW.

 

I was disappointed to see no cable trunking, lineside cabinets or general railway clutter like pipes, spare rails etc. along the route. Is this something you could add in a patch?

 

The JT version of the Western Mainlines (and Chiltern Mainlines) was built by people who I believe are long since gone from the company. Comparing that to GWE isn’t really fair. Their more recent stuff is night and day different to that very poor quality work, and their MML is streets ahead of this TSW effort. It is to JT’s immense credit that they’ve dragged their quality from those dark days to what we have now. I was quite surprised to see the amount of mutual back slapping going on last night on the stream, they should be embarrassed by how it compares to the TSC version.

I concede that to get TSC to look its best you have to spend money, but I absolutely guarantee you, if I could plonk you in front of my PC right now any pretence that TSW somehow looks better would be out of the window.

Vanilla vs Vanilla TSW wins all day long but as always though, that’s only half the story. I think this is where DTG are now pitching TSW, and the fact that they’re going back and making major changes to improve TSC suggests that they know TSC simply isn’t cutting it as a replacement.

Bravo2six Don’t compare TSW to other non train sims. Compare it to TSC. Almost every route released for TSC in the last 2 years is leagues ahead in scenery quality than TSW. It’s difficult to explain it, or even show it in screenshots but it’s undeniable. But for the stations and the odd key building, watching that stream last night you could have been on any TSW route. It’s just poorly rendered track and trees with virtually nothing else to speak of. It can be done of course (look at GWE by comparison) but DTG & their current crop of third parties just don’t seem interested.

 

Fingers crossed.

Also noted a signal was showing a green with calling on lights illuminating at the same time, just after Beeston (on the 158 run). Doesn't happen in reality, so maybe a signal glitch somewhere.

 

I have spent money on RW Enhancer, on the AP track pack and on the AP weather pack, all greatly improved the look of it. But even with these enhancements I don't, anymore, see that it looks better than TSW and I have been a stauch supporter of TSC, in fact a year ago TSW was uninstalled and I lost interest in it. I think part of the problem is that I don't have the time or inclination for making scenarios or spending a lot of time downloading them and searching for requirements or using the wonderful RW Tools to alter them.

I havent abandoned TSC there are still much of the current and future Caledonian works, Bossman Games, Matrix Trains, Victory Works and SSS catalogues I want to aquire but to be honest it is mainly for its steam content and the odd route like the Wherry Lines I will keep it for. Thanks can always change and I am keeping an eye of DTG's plans for it. However any potential sucessor to TSW or TSC in my mind needs a robust despatcher capable of running a service mode timetable, now they have gone down that route with TSC.

 

Yes the lineside did look a little bare still although seemed better than in some of the screen shots we saw previously. Some clutter would be good.

 

That interactive GSM-R is really cool, just needs the audio for "dial in" added and that typical "searching net"-interference sound ;-)
I HOPE this is soon spreading to other locos by the Adam's Special-Squad ...

 

Do you have the new weather enhancement? That really is a game changer and renders RWE obsolete.

You're right though, ease of use and out of the box accessibility is where TSW is undoubtably stronger. I think if Steam's your thing that unfortunately a lot of the routes that tend to be used for that in TSC are older and not as well put together as the more modern stuff.

There is, however, something in this for everyone. I'm just grateful that DTG are further developing TSC as for me, for UK content enhanced by AP, JT, ATS and the like it wins hands down.

For me the real pivot point with TSW will come when we see what those developers can do with it. If they can't make it good then I'll just accept it's not for me and enjoy TSC and all it has to offer.

 

Just posted to this effect in one of the other threads (would be nice to have one definitive one). Overall now feeling reasonably happy with my pre-order. Suspect this will become a route like Cathcart or GWE where you dive in for a quick blast from time to time. Quite looking forward to Tuesday.

 

After watching yesterdays stream I picked up a few details which are prototypical to the real thing and these are:

- there is a 5-7 second delay between opening the throttle past notch 1 and the engines revving up. This characteristic being unique to the VP185. (AP managed to get this down to a T in their pack for TSC which is a 16 year old game engine)

- the TGS guards door droplight window seems to have been textured over in white and in reality this is where the guard would hang out on departure next to the CDL panel on the wall adjacent to the door and therefore this is just glass. Like the rest but the door is not painted in red as it’s train crew door.

- the window on the HST cab door is the same droplight feature as the coach windows. Apart from these points.

- if you’re going to include guard functionality within the 158, put it into the hst as well as it is has similar (not identical) to the 158

 

Agree, Tsw just doesn’t have the immersive network that TSC does, and that’s what makes it get boring quick

 

The lighting, mainly. Day time actually looks like day without being over bright and saturated and the nights have a good amount of ambient light where needed.

Obviously TSC does have issues - I still can't always run the JT Met Line without it crashing and telling me to use 64 bit (which I already was) and a save game doesn't always restore properly - the 158 on the Huddersfield Line comes back with the throttle off and transmission in neutral and doesn't always respond to pressing "Q" to cancel AWS.

 

I picked up the MetLine revamp in the latest sale and that was definitely money well spent.

re The lighting, there is no getting round it, TSW is awful. I noticed in the stream last night that yet again there is no cab occlusion with this new route. The cab doesn't darken when you go under a bridge, and there is this weird, low-res cloud reflection that wouldn't look out of place in a Commodore 64 game.

I'm just playing JT's Southwestern Expressways to Reading...TSW can never look like this. Look at the detail, the distant scenery, the lighting etc. It's different league to the oversaturated, overblown nonsense that passes for lighting and scenery in TSW.

 

I´d like to root firmly for every single future paying beta-tester of this route. You got my fingers crossed and unconditional moral support. For those who believe, I assure you to be included in my daily prayers.
Please submit your bug reports to the forum asap. So that the not yet paying beta-testers can make up their minds whether they should purchase this route at once, in a large% off sale or never.

 

I must put that JT route on my wishlist, as noted previously they have come a long way since Edinburgh to Dundee and using the Class 166!

 

This is something I definitely want to do, yes.

However, I’m waiting on a few internal things to happen first, to enable me to do things like this. So until that happens, we’ll just have to wait.

I’m as eager as you are and everyone else in regards to scaling the line side scenery up. I agree, it does look a bit plain at present.

 

I see it this way more and more.

Tsw is the suave restaurant, it's glitzy, good ambient lighting, high price and really good looking food. You turn up, soak it up and order to realise you only get one course and a really limited menu. You eat, leave and feel like you've had something nice but something is missing.

The next day you pass The Tsc roadside diner, the decoration isn't as nice, lighting is a bit off but there is a much larger menu, you eat four courss and find you let the decoration slide because of the content of the food.

This is where the two games are at, Tsw looks nice but you only ever get a small portion of a meal (route), tsc is missing a service mode and fancy decor but has far more in each individual menu.

Tsw is consistently missing the mark on people outside stations, and making the routes more alive and less sterile. I do love the game and know more will pad routes out but I find myself running each route a few times and then leaving them until the. Ext dlc. The problem being in wising up and realising such sterility and emptiness is less worht £30 when I can put tsc on feel like I've travelled somewhere

 

Great news, sounds like they may give you access to an editor of some sort....if so, I'm sure you'll work your magic going by your previous excellent updates.

 

Agree. Driving this route in TSC from Leicester to Derby in quick drive I passed a Meridian 222, 170,156,158, several 66’s, and 43.there’s potential there but until it will just be empty. A cycle that just keeps on repeating.

 

I said something along those lines on a thread somewhere; TSW3 was a fancy bistro where the food was delicious but minimal, so much so that you have to go to a chippy afterwards (TSC) to fill yourself up on comfort food!

 

Imho it looks worse than TSW. You can see the FXAA blur, just by looking at the signs few meters in front of you, or at the light poles one the bridge ahead. Distant scenery is totaly lost in this blur. And while it is not oversaturated, it has opossing problem, it is desaturated, and dark.. and lacks any kind of dynamic range that should be typical for a clear evening sunset (i.e. the bundary between lit and shadow parts is barely visible, the tree leafs are greyish, the skybox doesn't look like it's even evening, and you're looking westwards..)

 

Dtg have released several multiple train routes. Bro, trenton, mainz koblenz, tsg released niddertalbahn, and more upcoming such as peak forest. It hasn't always been single train routes.

 

That's nothing to do with TSC, that's a reshade effect that I have that I hadn't realised would cause that blur when I took a screenshot. Fixed by pausing the game before taking the shot.