PC Midland Mainline Tsc + Tsw3 Comparison Images

I was going to post this in the MML thread but figured there would be too many images and it could be construed as 'off-topic'.

As I'm at a loose end today I decided to actually do a direct comparison between this route from Just Trains in TSC and the stream last night. The screengrabs are from YouTube (which DTG insist on only making available in 1080p) and I've done my best to replicate the exact same shot in TSC. I was quite underwhelmed by the quality of the route building, and when compared to the JT version can see why. The quality and attention to detail just isn’t there, which is a crying shame.

TSW3 first, TSC second.

 

First of all I must say that this doesn't seem to be a like to like comparison due to the apparent different times of day but I do see where you're coming from with the excessive flying.
I just think in these screenshots TSW just looks more true to life as although TSC is admittedly more detailed it clearly looks like your just in a simulator whereas in TSW, even though there is less detail, the lighting and environment feels like it could be a real life image.

To be clear I have played both TSC and TSW over the years and TSC has always felt inferior with no timetable mode and subpar graphics and these images just make this difference even clearer.

 

Sorry, you think the TSW images look more realistic than the TSC ones?

re The time of day, it's all we have. I'm sure if it were daylight the comparison would make TSW look even worse.

In every single image the level of detail, attention to detail, texture quality, model quality, distant scenery, lighting, weather effects, general LOD (i.e. the power station not being visible when it should be etc) favours TSC. Finally, the TSW shots are taken in the dark...where is the lighting from buildings, stations etc. Yet again it's completely absent.

 

Totally with you on this JetWash. I thought I'd take this one step further and do a TSW vs TSC vs Real Life comparison. In my opinion TSW has too much of an open feel. The embankments are too deep, the ballast extends too far wide and everything doesn't feel enclosed enough. Niddertalbahn created this enclosed feel of a railway line brilliantly but as usual with TSW there is too much inconsistently between releases. The TSC one isn't perfect either but it has a more enclosed feel to it in my opinion. Lineside clutter is non-existent in the TSW version, better in the TSC version.

 

Yes if I was some randomer looking on here I would have said a couple of the TSW images were real life as the TSC ones have a very indescribable computer generated look to them.

Fair dos mate.

Again I have already said the detail is better in TSC, I can't argue with that, but the overall environment does appear to have a more lifelike feel to it in TSW for me. There not being lights at night (apart from in the stations) doesn't bother me as in houses people have curtains shut and shops and the likes are shut. The fact is something not in the eyeline of the track generally doesn't bother me as I drive like I would in real life so I stay in the cab looking down the track.

I think that there are good things and bad things about both games and over the years the looks of TSW have just swayed me to prefer it over TSC and clearly you are swayed more by TSC than TSW.

 

The TSC version is undoubtedly one of the best payware routes in TSC but I am not looking at those screen shots and thinking it looks better. I would have been totally on the side of TSC a year ago but since TSW3 in particular I can't see it any more, I feel that TSW looks more lifelike and more natural.

Yes it has its deficiencies, like the lack of detail and clutter and of course you generally get more route per £ in TSC, but for me TSW is my preferred choice overall, partly as it looks better in my eyes and partly due to having service mode.

Also since TSW I have got interested in non UK routes as you get a full service mode timetable to enjoy them.

 

I’m baffled. So more lifelike means massively less detailed, worse texturing, extensive use of generic assets, very basic models, incorrect speed signs, no cab occlusion, not looking like its real world counterpart and so on? I know we all interpret things differently, but it’s right there in front of you to see, beyond doubt.

Do the TSW team sell a Coolaid drink that I’m not aware of?

 

I absolutely agree. While UE4 produces a more (though improvable) realistic lighting, from the content side the route building is much simpler in TSW. Wait til the TSC DX12 Upgrade is out alongside new rendering and shader options. Then TSW's only pro will be the timetable - which I do not find that important, as most services are just the same on different clock times - QD does the same trick for me.

 

One thing mentioned in last evenings stream was that Skyhook went with a 'feel' of the route not photo realism. So a lot of the building and like are there to make the route 'feel' like the real thing . Is this good, I, for one, cannot answer this question. This is for each individual to determine for themselves.

 

Maybe just accept people have differing views? I would just carry on and enjoy TSC, why be so exorcised about other peoples preferred choice of simulator?

I will continue to enjoy both as both have differing plus points and minus points.

 

Well there is the old saying, an artist recreates what they see not what is actually there!

 

In my opinion TSW does look better for the most part. I go back and forth on these two simulators and it always come down to immersion. TSC offers a lot more as far as locos .On the other hand the biggest selling point and what I like on TSW is the timetable mode.But for the timetable to work you need to have the locos. That’s why when is done correctly in my opinion if prefer and play TSW3 more. But on this current route, since the locos needed to make this route come alive are not yet available, TSC version is my preferred choice

 

Because I’ve spent a fortune on this hoping it would get better and it isn’t happening. I also find it interesting that we can look at the same image and not be seeing the same thing. If you enjoy it then more power to you but I just can’t see the value for money there at all.

Sharon E I would take that as a failed justification for the route not looking much like reality. To me it’s like saying, ‘that bridge or tunnel is completely wrong and nothing like the real world, but it’s still a bridge or a tunnel so at least it’s kinda the same thing’. Or this dog is a cat but it’s still a four legged animal so it’s pretty much the same thing.

 

I do enjoy both TSC and TSW.

TSW mainly for the immersive train and locos. Timetables - some are great and some are too simple and repetitive.

TSC for a more "simulation" feel. It's my playground, I can put whatever consist I like and run it anywhere. TSW's Scenario Planner is far too limited (available consists, restricted to platform lengths) that I only use it to explore the route.

And - just my personal opinion - the graphics are not as important as the ability to run on networks and branch lines and setting up interesting scenarios. Again - technically the TSW assets are not more detailed in most cases - they're just rendered with modern technology.

So basically, from an objective point of view in terms of route recreation, JetWash is absolutely right. Don't confuse the game engine with the content it's given.

 

You’ve literally been on this forum moaning about this game for months. Why the hell are you still investing your money and time in it if you dislike it this much?

 

Maybe because he feels if given more care, TSW has much more potential. I agree. UE4+TSC content=perfect TSW.

JetWash is angry because he cares, that's how I see it. And his feedback was objective, while many answers to him are subjective or missing the point, which is the route and not UE4.

 

No. It’s just 100% pure negativity. Has been for months. It’s tiresome. Just move on and find something else to do with your time.

 

Years, not months. I’ve been around for years under both this and a previous username, and up until BCC had bought the vast majority of content for TSW although I stopped there. I then engaged in a thread that gave me real hope things might change for the better, only for the very next DLC to blow that out of the water and Matt do a complete 180 on the things he’d said in that thread.

I’ve also tried to improve this game through various mods; my wind and rain sound mod alone is sitting at 10K downloads. I’ve put my money where my mouth is and tried to provide constructive, factual feedback. What have you done? If you’d been around for longer than 8 months you’d know that’s something DTG claim to want. Sadly, on these forums at least, a surprising amount of people are like puppies, hanging on their master’s every word. The same cycle plays out over and over again with each release, and many of the same people that are kissing DTG’s ass today will be complaining like hell this time next week. I believe the average route building quality of DLC for this game has got demonstrably worse year after year whilst the price has gone up, yet it seems you’d rather this place was an echo chamber of boundless fanboyism.

The point being of course that I’m just as entitled to express my opinion as you are to yours. One of the best things about these forums are they allow reasoned debate, even if people are critical of the game. That is very commendable indeed in this day and age.

 

Why should someone who merely disagrees be missing the point? I don't see that TSC looks better than TSW, I don't think TSW looks bad at all, it often looks great, but I don't think it looks better. That is my opinion, it is as subjective as his opinion.

But getting angry and frankly being a bit belittling with the coolaid comment isn't being objective.

I certainly don't think TSW is perfect, I am a regular complainer on these forums, often concerning DTG's decision making, however I can only go on my gut feeling and what enjoyment I get out of the sim and I am not just a casual gamer, I am very much a railway enthusiast so I don't think I settle for anything.

 

If TSC had a timetable mode, I know where I’d be spending most of my time.

When TSW is done well, like Niddertalbahn, then it can look very good. However to me the lighting in TSC overall is better both in day time and at night. For starters you don’t get that dreadful adaptive eye effect going in and out of tunnels which now pollutes TSW. Then there is the awful shiny brown sheen over the track bed half the time and don’t forget the shadows drawing in at about 10 yards in front of the train, which makes it look like they are being pushed along.

 

The coolaid comment certainly wasn’t aimed at you, but even you would have to admit there are a lot of users on these forums who won’t hear a negative word about DTG or the game.

I’ve also never for one minute suggested my opinion is any more valid than anyone else’s, but I do find it odd that you can look at those images I’ve posted and suggest TSW is better quality or looks more lifelike than TSC. That’s just horses for courses though, everyone’s different.

 

TSW looks so much better in those images but I am on console so haven’t really got a choice as to which one I play anyway though I think I’ve got the sweet end of the deal!!!

 

There you go again insulting people. You did it before with the person who gave you constructive feedback on your TSC comparison and insinuated that they were drinking the “TSW coolaid”.

TSW is clearly never going to meet your standards (as you pointed out before it had even been released). So instead of being disrespectful and derogatory to people who do enjoy TSW why not just accept that it won’t meet your standards and stick to TSC which you clearly prefer.

 

I prefer TSW tbh like I know its missing some things like the clutter and there are definitely positives and negatives to both. But I like the 24 hours timetable even if some aren't quite fleshed out yet and being able to have it on console is nice as well and opens it up to a large market.

Personally for me all the faff with packages and assets stuff I see on some forums does put me off TSC a bit (although idk if thats less messing about with buying dlc/sounds/graphics etc with more official and complete routes?).

But I'm happy with TSW and still enjoy playing it despite a lot of the short comings with different aspects as pointed out. I'm not one that has my head in the clouds either I do say what I think and the xbox audio stuff makes me want to slam my head into a wall but still.

Just my opinion personally

 

Whoever thought that was a good and necessary feature??

And even if they thought it was, it's implementation is just so poor and inconsistent.

It's very annoying and eye-strain inducing. I wish it were gone.

 

Just to be clear, this thread isn’t about game modes etc.

It’s about route construction, quality of assets, attention to detail (or lack of) and graphical fidelity.

 

Okay fair enough, I didn't think it was necessarily aimed at me. And I do agree there are people who won't hear a bad word said, to be honest I would have been accused of being one of them a few years ago, now I get irritated by people who won't hear a negative point against DTG being made.

I get irritated immensly by some of DTG's decision making I do think they are too hamstrung by the accountants. I used to spend hours making scenarios for TSC but I just can't be bothering anymore apart from on some of the routes I really engage with now which are routes like Stainmore and Weardale and Glorious Devon or South Lancashire and Cheshire as I don't feel anything like that is likely to come to TSW anytime soon. For more modern traction I am satisfied with TSW to be honest as I think it is generally well represented and as I said I would never have bought a German or USA route in TSC.

However I can only speak based on my feelings which probably have changed over the years. I hope both sims will flourish in the future.

 

Certainly based on the content available I agree. A route like Weardale with a complete 1950's timetable with the Victory Works and Caledonian Works and Matrix Trains stock would be a dream, as it is I have to dig a timetable out and spend a few hours making a scenario, testing, fixing faults, fixing paths the recalcitrant despatcher doesn't like after I have done that I don't want to play it! I tend to stick to freeroams on routes like that now. Maybe I will get back into it at some point.

 

Me too, wholeheartedly. I just wish the end product with TSW tied in with the stated intention for it and the intentional hype surrounding it.

Perhaps I am too hung up on what we were led to believe TSW was to be. I’m annoyed that based off all of the untruths we’ve been spun over the years I bought a load of stuff I will likely never use.

 

TBH, while I am aware that TSC can be made to rival or exceed TSW visually (in some aspects; I disagree with JW's claims about texture quality), frankly I am not disposed to invest the large amount of money and especially not the vast quantities of time required for tweaking and testing and installing utilities and chasing down dependencies (usually for more money) and then more tweaking just to get it up there. And judging by the SS's above, even after all that the result is still unconvincing as a "win." AFAICT TSC's only advantage lies in draw distance, and that's about it (In particular, my subjective eye disagrees entirely with JW's assertion that TSC's lighting is "better.") And then, to run a populated route one has to spend endless time setting up and testing a scenario.

I do think there are some necessary tweaks TSW needs, like, yesterday: shorten the eye adaptation transition time to ~1 sec instead of the current, which is over 3. And add ambient occlusion to train interiors.

 

Pros and cons for both. Timetable mode is an excellent asset for TSW. TSW runs smoother for me, the foliage assets are better in TSW (when used correctly) and it can look amazing at times.
TSC can look v good as well,but I've been left well behind with all the addons required to run scenarios/routes and can't be bothered to run them through TStools these days. But at least TSC has realistic looking speed signs!

So I tend to stay with TSW. If we can get some kind of randomised delays in the timetable mode, that would be the big winner for me.

 

Surely if you think the TSC version is the better of the two, you could just play that and be content with it, rather than trying to do the whole political thing of trying to orchestrate some kind of anti-TSW movement?

Don't get me wrong, I play TSC and enjoy it for what it is, it does somethings better than TSW, TSW does somethings better, but if you think TSC looks objectively better than TSW, then you need your eyes tested.

 

To a large extent, TSC vs TSW is like comparing apples to oranges.

TSC has a full editor, a vast library of content, some good, some not so good, a better UI in some respects ( the 2d map comes to mind ), a much better save feature and overall better lighting.

TSW has a real-world railroad experience, both inside and outside the cab, a more expansive timetable, a console presence ensuring its long term future and the potential for superior graphics ( not always realized ).

I play TSW exclusively these days, but I still have my TSC library and sometimes, mostly when TSW disappointments me like with NYT, I'm tempted to go back to it.

The highs and lows are much more pronounced with TSW than they ever were with TSC.

 

Presume this is aimed at me but I think it's just an opinion and everyone's is different so TSC may look better for you but it just doesn't for me. I haven't consciously chosen to prefer TSW but I just find that TSW is much nicer on the eye for me and I feel more like I'm in a real world when I play it the same way you clearly prefer the look of TSC.

I can assure you that I've got my complaints about the game and regularly agree with and write negative things about the game (no diesels on peak forest, too much modern content, 150/2, etc) and even with this dlc (buffet the wrong way round, no freight, etc) though I try my hardest to make it constructive but when it comes to graphics, which this thread is clearly about, TSW takes the biscuit for me and even then there are imperfections but then nothing in life is perfect so why would I expect a video game to be.

If TSC is sweeter on your eye that's fine by me it's your own opinion which I respect so just do the same for me and that's all I ask rather than snarky comments.

 

This isn’t bout how TSC looks for you, as I’ve already said it’s about the images I’ve posted in this thread. Particularly it’s about the detail in the TSC version, the line side clutter, the railway paraphernalia, the cable trunking, the quality of the assets and how like the real world they are.

UE4 should look better than TSC, it’s a modern DX12 engine with all the bells and whistles of 2023. When compared to other UE4 sims the only conclusion I can draw is that the way DTG are using it leaves a lot to be desired. Although subjective I admit, as things stand, much of the time I believe TSC looks better. The engine used, and how it renders the assets is not, and has never been the point of this thread however.

If you’re happy paying £30 for this then great, I wouldn’t be.

 

It wasn’t aimed at you, no. Just a more general comment on the tone of the responses.

People seem to be confusing the point of the thread, and weighing in about why the timetable mode is a winner for TSW for example. That wasn’t the point. I am talking about the comparison images I’ve posted, and the quality of the route building. It’s in the sparsity of the scenery, the lack of stuff that should be all over the railway, the reused assets and the generally poor quality. Comparing the two I find it impossible to get to a position where I can say TSW looks better in that regard. We’re not far off having a track and tree simulator, yet even the track looks blinking awful these days.

It was always said that the routes were shorter in TSW because the quality was life like. Can anyone honestly say that is the case here? Clearly it isn’t.

I’ve said already in this thread that it CAN be done, drive the length of GWE look at the attention to detail that went into that route, but it is no longer happening. Price goes up. Quality, with a few notable exceptions, goes down. I’m not ok with that.

 

Fair dos mate, thanks for clearing it up. Like I say detail wise in those shots and generally even in the older routes TSC does take it but the overall feel I get from the images just favours TSW but anyway I've got a few jobs I need to get done on my day off so can't rabbit on too much longer!

Must agree that GWE is very well done and recent releases definitely don't match the detail that went into that route though, in fairness, in most areas I find BCC comes close.

 

Can I just ask what your sources were for the images?

 

The YouTube stream last night and my own TSC installation running Just Trains Midland Mainline.

 

I guessed as much, probably not the best way to try and compare two things.

 

As said a few posts above, I too have left TSC too long to play catch up now, I have delved in a couple of times to have my BR Blue fix but graphically the loco's are not a patch on TSW.

I see there are plans to upgrade TSC? Will certainly keep an eye out for that but even then I'd still miss the features in TSW3 (even though they're bugged) like:-

Timetable mode
Wet/Snow platforms
PIS
Being able to walk through carriages and sit on different seats
Climb in/out cab

Each sim has it's own merit

 

Well, I did state this in the original post, and given last night’s stream is all we have to go on it’s more than adequate for the purposes I was using it for. Unfortunately that seems to have got lost in the noise and at times this has become a TSC vs TSW debate which was never the point.

 

In my opinion, Both TS1's and TSW's default lighting looks bad. TS1 looks great combined with AP Weather/RWEnhancer, and TSW can look great with proper INI tweaks however TS1 wins when it comes to the detail in the scenery. We know TSW is capable of such detailed scenery as Niddertalbahn looks incredible, but we'll never see that again for a while.

 

Which is exactly the point of the thread. Thank you!

It’s the lack of consistency and care that I can’t stand. One route (Niddertalbahn) looks great, next route (MML) is tracks, trees and re-used generic assets. Instead of saying Niddertalbahn should be the new benchmark all we get is ‘don’t expect that again’. It’s bonkers.

I should add for clarity that when I talk about TSC and its lighting I do so through the eyes of the AP Sky and Weather Pack 2. I appreciate that if you don’t have AP content and don’t play UK routes you must think I’m a lunatic. As I said further up, vanilla vs vanilla TSW wins everyday.