Midland Mainline - Leicester To Derby & Nottingham

I have just had a run from Nottingham to Derby in the HST. It was a short but enjoyable run and it did feel immersive, the route is indeed nicely modelled, the HST sounds good especially the running sounds at speed giving you a sense of speed. I actually passed two trains this time and overtook a class 158 near Loughborough! Still it does need more life to it and I fear after a while the short journeys will get feel inadequate.

 

Hey, Here's my idea of what might be able to brighten up this dull route. Something that doesn't need a strict deadline. Something that doesn't need rushing and something that will add to the enjoyment of the route, here it is: Train Sim World 3 - Class 222 Meridian Dlc For Mml | Dovetail Games Forums

Hope you like this idea. (Thought I might cheer up this depressing thread)

 

There's valid reasons as to why it's depressing. Go and look at the route again... It's dead!

 

I suppose, I still like it and I think it can be fixed. We just need to wait for DTG/Skyhook to get there Arses into gear..

 

That mirrors what I have bought plus NYT ( because I had to see for myself and wanted to run the Acela somewhere other than BPE.)

BCC? Haven't touched it in months. It's in the " rainy day closet ".

 

Now you know how US fans felt about NYT.

And, quite honestly, I don't see either route getting a timetable expansion any time soon though I still believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy and......

 

Tbh they could so improve it, Its like its done on purpose to drag things out and well its all gonna backfire and collapse on them one day. They leave it so long to do what the people ask for and when they do shift themselves out of their comfy office chairs and do it they do an utter LOVE job. shame on you DTG, Goodbye the old days of when things were made with care and done properly. Hello the days of cheaply made garbage for a stupidly high price. I am so getting to the point of giving up with DTG, I've been a customer of theirs since 2014 and how we get repaid for it is appalling. I so hope things improve drastically over the next year or so, The technology we have now is insane and DTG are behind the times. Looking forward to the next route that's done properly (if ever) and maybe (in my opinion) TSC was better in lots of ways, I know the sounds were LOVE and all but routewise it was so much better. Yes I know it had bugs but so does everything, you try and make a game, Will it have bugs? Yes, As it is impossible to make a game without at least 1 bug. So what is it, Do we all go back to TSC or shall we hang on here a bit longer to see what happens? To this day TSC is my most played game on steam at nearly a thousand hours, If you look at TSW then its at 53 hours. Shows the difference, Shows DTG up for this LOVE..

 

I remember back to Commodore 64 (and Sinclair ZX81 as the first encounter with a computer in my home).
There was bugfree software on those because the software had such few functionality that it was indeed controllable...

But you're right: Things began to go downhill with the Amiga

OT: Once i had to work in relation to heart-rate pacemakers. The lengths to which these companies have to go to make those "few thousand" lines of code bug-free is astounding. We don't want to have bugs in those when we get one But that is of course economically unfeasable for most other "of-the-shelf" software products...

 

Sam & Nat spoke the truth. I wonder if that is why they are not on the preview streams anymore

 

And the anal retentiveness of the audience... Far fewer rivet counters back then with means to publish to an audience

 

As long as people keep buying this stuff then all the issues don't really get addressed. The fact that a train moves and looks like a train and there is some scenery means it's passing QA. Empty timetables and little gameplay beyond repetitive schedules mean that as long as the next big thing is on the horizon past woes get left behind and often unfixed.

I keep an eye on things hoping a change is coming but TSW remains uninstalled and I doubt now even if they did a 80s west highland route with full timetable I would bother to buy it.

 

Well thats not my decision I have no idea why. I guess some of them are not show stopping bugs, dunno really

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Another bug, seems raindrops are happening in the air (you know, that new feature they have implemented).. oh dear.. left hand side on the fence..

 

Completely off topic but I would love to see a single track route, preferably Scotland, in TSW with the tech expanded to replicate physical token exchanges. If you arrive first at the passing loop you have to await the signalman to retrieve the token from the arriving train, walk back to the box put it through the system then physically hand it to you the driver, would be superb. Maybe in TSW10…

 

Couple of nice wintry screens for you...

 

As someone who developed software for the ZX81, Commodore 64 and Amiga, we certainly had our fair share of bugs, even in the ZX81, although obviously smaller and much simpler code led to rapid fixes before the software went out at prime time. I felt really confident in Alien Vs Predator (AtarI) that I had fixed all of my code bugs as we went to mastering the cartridge. Only to find a reviewer luring the Alien Queen straight out of her lair and down the nearest corridor!

Unfortunately the increase in complexity, leads in to an increase in bugs. We worked really hard on MML but given the huge complexity, some things slipped through the net. The important thing for me is fixing them and thank all of you and our beta group for identifying them.

Jane

 

Phil, these are stunning. Would you mind if I shared with the Skyhook team ? as I think the would love to see them!

 

Please do.

 

Bugs are one thing, but what’s the excuse for the poor quality of route building, extensive use of generic assets, stations that look like lifeless imitations of their real world counterparts, zero lineside clutter and just general sloppiness?

How do you feel it compares to the Just Trains version?

Finally, do you think it’s worth £30?

 

Yes, I was literally about to say there were definitely bugs in the "good old days". I often managed to find them as a player. And some were game breaking. But once they were on tape and out there in the world, we didn't have the convenience of internet connections and patching.

Anecdote: I did a bit of testing on a little game my brother was developing with Last Day of Work and found something the dev team had never noticed. They actually thought the bug was pretty funny, so they purposely left it in.

 

Now that I know who you are I am glad that you are taking on this tough rescue job and my wallett is now beginning to open in anticipation of the improvements I am sure you will be able to achieve as long as you are not thwarted by the bean counters. I really wanted this route to be good and was looking forward to it only to find disappointment . Now I have some hope and I wish you the very best of luck in your task.

 

Which part of the route is this because I'm yet to see it? All I see are randomly plonked trees and bushes that bear no resemblance to the real route and reused generic assets (apart from the stations).

 

Finally had the chance to play this route. I was actually in Nottingham visiting friends on the day it released which is a remarkable coincidence.

This probably matches BML for my favourite route in TSW3. I love finally having another route for the HST, and it looks and sounds better than ever. The 158 is also fantastic, the developers did a truly wonderful job. Probably a candidate for best sounding train in the game to my ears.

I've got no complaints on the length like others do. It suits my poor attention span wonderfully, and I actually think it's more interesting having it go to both Derby and Nottingham than having it just go straight to Sheffield.

I think there's certainly potential for an extension, obviously to Sheffield maybe including the route from Nottingham via Alfreton. If not, then I can think of fewer straightforward routes that could be developed for TSW3 than Nottingham to Lincoln. Pretty much a 60mph straight line through fields for an hour, the only points of interest being the flat crossing over the ECML at Newark and the approach into Lincoln with the Brayford pool. Wouldn't be terribly interesting but at least you'd then be able to drive Leicester to Lincoln services in their entirety.

Overall, really enjoying the route. Skyhook definitely need to fix some things but I think they should be proud of what they've created.

 

Much of it, the stations are nicely modelled, you get a nice sense of speeding through the countryside. The trackwork looks good. Yes there are some issues but I haven't seen anything glaring scenery wise which has jumped out on me.

Most train simulator routes will use generic assets for many buildings, I would like to see more buildings in the library but these things take time. Kuju assets from Rail Simulator still turn up on relatively recent TSC routes.

 

I agree in part, I certainly wouldn't want to sacrifice the line to Nottingham to go to Sheffield instead. Often I only have time for a 30 minute drive. However if it went to Sheffield too you would get that longer run in the HST plus the options of shorter run.

If there was a save game slot for each route that would be a major help with longer routes.

 

It's got potential but I've had 3 hard crashes in the last 24 hours which I've never had in this game before (all 3 sent to Sony with videos attached). The AWS issue is a pain as it's totally random seemingly. Route seems too short (should have run to Sheffield) and the timetable is woefully short of trains. Sheffield alone has 2 trains per hour to London and you don't see anything like that coming through Derby in the game. I just did Derby to Leicester and saw 1 train the whole way...

 

Not that much different to SEHS where there are glaring issues scenery wise including bridges made of the wrong metal, cliffs which are half their true height and a stair case which IRL is built into the cutting's sides, but in game is a "greened up staircase"

And generally TSW is quite a barren scene scape, so I'm not going to disagree with you, but the issue seems to be a wider one than this route and how it's presented

 

From what I’ve seen I’d say that the route being at least 4 tracked for the majority, combined with it being devoid of other traffic, is amplifying the issues with the scenery.

The biggest issue I’ve noticed is that the way the ballast phases to grass looks very unnatural, also, they’ve tried to make the ballast look untidy around the rails, which would work if it again didn’t look completely unnatural & also symmetrical across all tracks. The rather poor lighting (yet again this is plaguing another route), is making this really obvious too, since it makes the rough ballast texture look very shiny.

 

You’re definitely drinking from a half full glass

The stations are nicely modelled, but lack any sort of clutter or life and some of the iconic parts of the stations are missing.

Speeding through the countryside - well, I’d hope so because there’s no much else to put you where you are. Fields and trees…not much to write home about.

The track is the same generic track that is on all routes, except the ballast looks nothing like ballast in the UK. It looks like the track has been laid on coal. It’s also super reflective, which is a longstanding TSW / UE4 problem.

The point for me is there’s nothing wrong scenery wise, but there’s nothing right either. It’s totally meh, instantly forgettable and bar 2 or 3 giveaways (power station, bridge outside Loughborough and, er…) there is absolutely nothing else, bar the stations and signalling, to tell you you are in the UK, never mind the East Midlands.

Generic assets are a necessity, but traditionally iconic landmarks on a route are custom made. That was the case in TSC, yet as an example, on this route you have a great ugly gas storage tank where a grain silo should be.

It’s half-arsed, nothing will change that.

 

I noticed that too.

I also think that the ballast layer needs to be thicker, it seems generally thin and sometimes it "sinks" a little below the ground.

 

Honsestly, I'd say it all is.
To me it resembles the route.

Generic assets goes back to the infinate problem of "unique assets, more memory, bigger file sizes, consoles and weaker pcs lose out"
If each route has entirely new assests it would just be impractical.

 

I haven't studied the route mile for mile, I am sure I could do that with every route and find many trees of the wrong kind or bushes in the wrong place. I agree landmark buildings and infrastructure should be there, it is disappointing that the Derby roundhouse is poorly represented. That isn't something new to this route, or this simulator, or to DTG or to train simulators.

If you go looking for problems you will find them.

The route to me feels like a good representation of the area it is set and the stations look accurate.

As time goes on more assets will be made and routes will have more variety within them.

 

I wouldn’t say it’s looking for problems. It’s just having owned the JT version and knowing what they did at a lower price point for a smaller market then comparing the two, it’s undeniable that this is hugely disappointing.

re Your last point, that’s what I thought too. We’re now 6 years in and it isn’t working out like that. Other than stations that are only applicable to the route they’re made for, all you see on British routes particularly is the same old day 1 assets. They haven’t even bothered to vary the posters they insist on placing all over every station.

 

That is beautiful, finally something on this thread which is not so 'Negative'. When will the bright side of this route ever be spoken of.

 

Those screenshots have nothing to do with the route and everything to do with UE4. They could have been taken on any route in the game with TSW3 skies, albeit with different traction.

 

I suppose, I just feel (in my opinion) there's some good things of this route and it's not all bad.

 

I really feel that people are deluding themselves with this route. Just because previous TSW routes have been bland and had very few custom assets does not mean it's ok that every future route does. There must be some sort of progression. If you look at TSC, the routes released now in 2022/2023 are way better than those released say 5 years ago, with one or two exceptions.

But with TSW, the quality of route building seems to either stay the same or get worse. Almost every route, with one or two notable exceptions has the same bridges, the same bland lineside foliage that is too far away from the track, the lack of any lineside clutter. How is it that GWE, a route released 6 years ago almost, can feel more lively and lifelike than MML. There's been significant improvements in the lighting in TSW and the stock thats been released mostly looks and sounds lovely, but the routes are as bland as ever. I mean what is going on here? Did Skyhook really not have a retaining wall and bridge support asset they could have used, even if it was the wrong colour?



Why is the foliage here so sparse?


Is this really the closest bridge they could find in their library at Loughborough, and the platforms should be covered in greenery:

 

QA's job is making sure it does not crash and that it is workable (agree that has failed a bit in the past too). Its not their job to count the rivets unless the requirements for the thing they are testing says it must have exactly 36204 rivets. Quality is down to the product managers who set up what should be built and accept the product for release.

 

Given in the stream great play was made of the fact this route was local to the author(s) how on earth could Loughborough station get the wrong type of bridge?! This isn't rivet counting, it's a fundamentally different structure. It's not as if bridges are that hard to make, even I managed it back in the day with MSTS and Abacus Train Sim Modeller.* Are these developers so strapped for manpower they haven't got enough people to make what should be at most a couple of hours at most to knock together?

As I said earlier my finger was hovering over the rebuy button but now given myself a firm slap and, no - just no.

*They were a bit crude but, like the ones I did for the SMJ, still looked better than putting default or generic structures in their place.

 

Yup, consider that this thing was actually delayed too, imagine what the original release was like.

The 158 & VP185 HST will carry this route hard, for me it’s another sprinter dragged to the bottom.

 

Well for me, - I am not a rivet counter, but I can understand players’ frustration at the somewhat unfinished state of the product, the line and trains on it are worth £30 of my money. Perhaps I am easily satisfied, but I believe DTG & Skyhook will make adjustments (which I agree, of course, should have been made pre-release) and the release will be even more enjoyable - for me, at least. Your mileage as they say, may vary.

 

Have you posted these in the MML feedback that jane-skyhook has started, I'm sure they'll be able to feedback and get it updated?

 

Fair enough. I guess build basic route, add one train or two if an oldie can be rebuit then sell for £30.00 is the future right now. Disappointing for all of us being told an editor is coming or maybe some stuff will get fixed. Money saved mind and much of that has gone on modding my TSC install to look as good as TSW in my eyes with the huge line up of stock and the editing ability.

 

Watched the stream earlier, yep, another one I'll wait for a 40%+ discount - as I expected, usual bugs and mistakes - and nothing mentioned about them on stream, (Sam, come back!) just the usual avoiding the subject but answering questions about price and requests to keep blowing the bloody horn x1000 times!

Wasn't impressed with the HST sounds, sounded more like an MTU.

158 sounded good but I didn't hear any break rub sounds? Maybe that's just me as I didn't have the volume on too loud. Has that annoying window glare been resolved? everyone kept mentioning it on stream but of course was ignored. (Oh how I miss Sam!)

 

BCC is actually a really good route. Certainly by recent standards it’s very enjoyable. And the 323 is fantastic.

 

BCC is empty, Not enough trains in one of Britain's main stations. BCC is a nice route, The 323 is a nice addition with good sounds but overall I call it an empty forgotten route. Personally I don't own it so I don't have the full experience, but from what I've seen its dreadfully empty unfortunatly..

 

Man I had no idea this route was so hated. Yeah it has a lot of problems, but it's definitely my favourite route of TSW3 so far. I know I'm biased because it's in an area I hold a lot of fondness for, and it features two of my favourite trains in the country, but I'm enjoying it a lot.

Obviously all the problems people have mentioned need to be fixed, but I'm happy with what we’ve got. I'll ignore anyone who tries to insinuate I'm deluded for thinking so.

 

Not everyone hates it, there are a few loud voices as usual.

It has some flaws but it looks like they are actively looking at fixing the bugs and hopefully the timetable will get a makeover.

I won't be my favourite but I do very much enjoy the class 158 and the HST and the route feels realistic enough to me.

 

Where are you going to get those trains from?

It isn't empty, yes New Street is but the cross city timetable is busy with frequent services so you are regularly passing other trains on the route.!

It is an interesting route and well modelled as is the 323, I do own this route too btw!

I don't know how it can be forgotten as it has only been out a few months and I can't see what else they would do with it, unless they make some trains for other routes which could layer in on it.

 

What I don’t understand is that all these faults with the route that people are bringing up were visible from the stream along with the reviews on the first day.

So why do you still buy the DLC?

Nothing will change as long as you continue to do this.

The locomotives do look good and I may purchase it in a year for the 158 when it recieves a heavy discount.
I am yet to purchase any TSW3 DLC aside from TSW3 itself as it came with three top quality routes.
The only one I’m considering is Niddertahl Bahn as it looks well-made.