Hi All, Just wanted to share my comments on the 1938 tube stock as this loco doesn't get too much of a mention on the forums (and rightfully so!). I picked this up in one of the recent sales and knew it had middling reviews however thought I'd bite the bullet anyway as was relatively cheap. I have to say, this has to be the worst DLC for TSW and it's a shame that Rivet haven't looked to improve the loco as it's such wasted potential. The general modelling of the train and it's authenticity seem quite good and give some variety for BKL however that's where the positives stop unfortunately. The sounds are atrocious and even with the very few mods available for the loco on PC, they don't make much difference. Hardly any sound when coasting, traction noise from carriages very localised, cabin doors that refuse to open at times... I've just played the Old Dog, New Tricks scenario and was also greeted with snow on the roof throughout the underground portion of the route and wet surface noise in all the stations. I could go on, but you get the gist and it seems par for the course for TSW anyhow! Just wanted to share my thoughts on this train - any solutions or improvements that you are aware of would be helpful - Rivet, sort this out!
TBH I think this is one where Rivet have promised several times to look at the sounds but nothing has been forthcoming. I wouldn't hold my breath for anything forthcoming any time soon...
This is the problem with all the older DLC waiting fixes whether third party or DTG's own. Once it's hit the sales target, the royalties have been paid and the accountant smiles benignly, any further work is a straight loss to the developer. Even though they must be aware considerable extra sales could be generated from fixing it up, they probably take the view more money can be made from offering something new. They also must have known on release that the sounds weren't right but went ahead anyway, just as we have seen with SHG and the botched MML, so with that mindset at work as I said, don't hold your breath.
Unfortunately I think you're probably right with this one and I think it's a mindset that plagues TSW but the games industry as a whole. It's a shame as I think the 1938 stock compliments the BKL line well and could actually be a decent product but it really exemplifies a lot of the issues this game has. I feel that the majority of Rivet content lacks polish and feels lazy at times which can't be said for their TSC offerings.
I found a simple way to avoid buying this while still useing 1938 stock on the tube type train.Just use a 4 car IOW train which can be liveried up and ran on the tube line sure it's abit short and not totally accurate but it close enough and save one 20 bucks or needing at all.
I believe the snowy roof and wet surface adhesion in tunnels might be a core issue, by the way. I regularly notice it while in tunnels all over the game.
Just think of it as leaky water pipes and cold weather in the tunnels.When i find a issue i look for some way to make it fit the situation,sometimes it helps,sometime it doesn't but it can help mentally solve the problem sometimes.
To be honest I don't think it's the worst one. It looks very nice and from my experience with it (I haven't played it for more than a year) isn't completely broken like other trains, like the BR204. My personal most disliked DLC is the Class 313. The 204 and 38 Stock redeemed themselves by how they look (and because I knew what I was getting into), but the inaccurate interior, obvious texture bugs and lack of care put into the sounds really annoyed me. The Class 314 was very good and I expected the 313 to be high quality based solely on what they were basing it on, but they managed to make it worse.
The 1938 stock is visually superb - you can almost smell that old hot bakelite aroma - which is why the state of the pack is such a shame. But it is the sounds which maketh the train, even at this stage they could synth something up from the 1972 stock or their original work on the IOW version to feed in the coasting and deceleration sounds.
This is what frustrates me so much. Rivets' modelling is usually superb, but the physics and/or sounds undo all of that. I'd pick up IOW, 38 stock, Arosa, and WCL at the next best opportunity if physics and sounds were not such a mess.
Sorry to hear that. I thought it was rather good? It drives well and sounds nice. Maybe I don’t know enough about them.
The interior is incorrect. At the inner carriage ends the seats are the wrong type; they're meant to be the original low-back seats rather than the high-back ones DTG put in their place, clearly not researching enough into the units. The gangway have the carpet from the main interior on the floor for some reason, and it creates awful z-fighting as well as being completely wrong. The door sounds are non existent too. The real Southern 313s have/had two different sounds, the older Wabtech alarms and the same type used on 800s. Neither is represented in the game, as they just used the ones from the 314, which doesn't even have tones when the doors open. I also her reports about safety system glitches but I never got enough playtime out of it. If I was on PC at the time I would have refunded it, rather like most TSW DLC, which on PS4 were unplayable.
I do not own the 1938 stock, but is its handling and sounds worse than the already bad Class 484 (taking off like a rocket, weird acceleration curve, traction sound playing constanly even when coasting, etc.) ?
Yes I could never understand how people were so enthusiastic about it. To me in Notch 4 sounds more like a Class 230 DMU.
I've just purchased ECW and the 313, and I am having a bit of a problem with this train. Let's say I started from Lewes towards Brighton. As soon as I get past the 10mph zone, I move to notch 4 and accelerate towards the new speed limit (55mph). As the train's speed approaches 50mph, I drop to notch 3, then notch 2, and then notch 1, but the train seems to continue its acceleration as if it's still in notch 4. Only going to zero makes a difference, and that difference is immediate: the train begins to slow down, because of the 1.1% slope. However, as I apply power to counter the ascending slope, I have to go to notch 3, just to maintain a speed of approx 50mph. This would suggest that dropping from notch 4 to notch 3 should be enough to maintain the speed close to the limit, but coming down from 4 to 3 does not allow me to keep the speed constant. tl;dr: the throttle of this train makes it very hard to maintain a relatively constant speed.
I believe the power control system on the 313 accurately reflects the real train in that to reduce power you need to take the throttle off then reapply.
I do enjoy the 1938 stock, but I usually keep the sound low as to not wake the missus. So maybe that's a factor. I especially enjoy riding as a passenger and watching the tube stops go by. It gives me a feeling of heady nostalgia, then four bald dudes with orange sweaters hop on board and the spell is broken.
As OldVern explained, it's a camshaft control system. You can only notch up, not down, unless you return to off. See here:
Eugh! If notch 3 should only be used for up to 25mph, then maintaining 55mph means notch 4 -> notch 0 -> notch 4 etc. I wish I knew this before wasting... ok, it wasn't a lot of money... still a waste since I will likely never drive this thing again.
You shouldn’t give up on it just because it takes a bit of concentration and skill to drive. Stick at it and you might find it very satisfying. Get it to the speed you want then maintain that speed with notch 2 or notch 3.
I'm playing this game to relax. So, I will avoid anything that requires concentration and skill, thank you very much. That doesn't work, as explained by Joe in the quoted message above.
If you're doing 55mph, then notches 1 and 2 are useless. Say I am accelerating in notch 4, and speed approaches 55mph. I need to drop to 0 to prevent going over the limit, and the speed will begin to drop, due to the slope. Applying 1 or 2 now has no impact, the speed will continue to drop. So I can only go back to notch 4, to accelerate again. And then repeat. So, what I wrote is true: you need to go 4 -> 0 -> 4 -> 0 and so on, and the speed will look like a saw, up and down and up again, and so on. Thus, your advice above, to use notch 1 or 2 does not work.
On the topic of the camshaft control system, I actually like it a lot! Reminds me of the 72 underground stock, which is easy and intuitive to drive, but at the same time very unique due to systems like this one. This actually makes me a bit more interested in the 313 now, lol I do have to note that I’m also someone who plays TSW to relax. There are some trains I tend to avoid, like the steam locomotives with their bugged physics and the DB BR 612 which is just reacts sooo slowly to any inputs. Oddly, I like the BR Class 101 with its gear shift system.
The magic of the 101 once you get the hang of it is indeed really special and rewarding. Worth noting it also keeps my “feeling” for gear shifts fresh and alive after switching from a manual to an automatic car in real life a while back
+1 The Class 101 is really interesting to drive. The gearbox, the brakes ... I also like the feeling of the 3-car Class 101 on TVL. I use this sound mod from Bescot to improve the immersion : https://www.trainsimcommunity.com/mods/c3-train-sim-world/c20-sounds/i2536-class-101-sound-mod It would be fun if breaking the gearbox was simulated
I’m driving it now and having no issues holding speed. You have to be slow and patient as it is an older train. It’s not a plug-and-play electrostar. Get it close to the speed you want then reset to zero. Then slowly step up through the notches until you are roughly holding your speed. It’s a train you are going to want to stay a few mph below the speed limit to give yourself time to adjust. This is true to real life too. Depending on the gradient 2 is sometimes enough but at higher speeds rarely. I tend to sit in 3 normally. I would guess the 101 is not a favourite of yours? It’s my favourite so I guess we just like trains that drive differently.
The point is, that is how the real train works so I actually say kudos to DTG for doing it properly. Anyhow this is all getting a bit off the original topic which is Rivet’s ongoing failure if not outright disinterest in fixing the 1938 stock sound.
I know it’s quite hard to get real sounds as it’s obviously not in service anymore and I don’t think that Rivet is waiting for a next special excursion on the LUL network, but they might use some reference from videos by asking their respective authors and at least first make the cab less soundproof I feel like I’m driving a modern EMU it’s a bit ridiculous
i’ve had a more pleasurable experience surgically removing my internal body parts than driving that thing
Developer is shown as DTG, however regardless of who I’m not suggesting they leech the sounds but listen to it as a reference to make their own.
This. Jasper has acknowledged the issue and punted to this developers - twice - with zero follow up each time. At the very least, tell us that the project has been shelved and the sound issues won’t be addressed. Jasper, if you’re seeing this, some follow up / additional color would be greatly appreciated. You’ve acknowledged the issue then ghosted - twice - over the past two years.
Do what you like, it’s your money but please don’t complain about realism. It’s a ‘simulator’ not a ‘game’
I'm not sure where you see me complain. I felt that it didn't work as I expected, and I accepted the explanations offered by OldVern and Lamplight. It does work as explained by Joe in that other post; too bad they don't put this into a manual, and you have to post on forums to find out how it is supposed to work.
Needs to be improved on even more and for the train itself it needs to have actual sounds from an actual working 1938 stock
I have to say that I agree. This train was a big part of my childhood and I so looked forward to it. Sadly, it lacked in a couple of important areas. The sound of the train is just wrong, especially in the underground section of the line. It sounds like they have based it on the 1972 stock Bakerloo and the IOW train which, though based on the 1938 stock, has a completely different sound. Also the shade of green inside the passenger cabin is much too pale. To be fair, they have got the wooden floor right. They made some improvements in a patch as far as I remember but not these important areas.
You never used the word “complain” or “complaint” it is true but if it looks like a complaint, sounds like a complaint and you can’t be doing with driving it again and feel that you wasted your money then it’s down to our own definitions. I stand by the fact that it’s a simulator and meant to have some realism. This is a realistic model. TrainSim World is a simulation, not a game. Perhaps you might consider reviewing new releases by watching them driven on you tube videos before parting with your cash, and thus avoid any future disappointment We rightly as a collective hold DTG’s feet to the fire for many things, releasing a realistic model shouldn’t be one of them. Make sure it’s for you before completing a purchase. Buyer beware!
TSW is a simulation and a game, and is entirely capable of being both. Absolutely no need for anyone to gate it off in the manner you're trying to
