Midland Mainline - Skyhook Feedback

This is the real photo from Marc who kindly posted so you can compare progress (yes I know about the houses too )

 

Looking pretty good but could do with a few more bushes on the far right hand side and some small ones between the mainlines and the slow line. Are there any plans to add cable trunking along the route?

 

will find out for you on the cable trunking. I just asked for the bushes in the centre of the tracks

 

Wow, I must say I’m impressed since we dont usually get treated to scenic updates after the release.

Are there any plans on bringing the vegetation closer to the track across the whole line? It’s very open in game, but in reality it’s much more closed in.

Others have already posted images which highlight the extent of the issue.

 

Looks like the bridge needs to be brick/girder though rather than brick arch?

 

Many thanks.

My number 1 issue with the route. If this is implemented, I'd re-buy it straight away.

 

as always I cant promise, based on the priorities of the environment team, but yes we are aware of vegetation needing tidying.

I am really grateful for your feedback. I have seen your very direct and open posts and we are listening. Glad we are on the right "track" pun intended.

 

yep, we are aware of the bridge. I just wanted to share the platform environment for now. We have people on bridges too. Thank you also Vern for you passionate ongoing feedback. I genuinely welcome it to keep us on our toes.

Jane

 

I haven’t got this route, as it didn’t quite do it for me in terms of start and end points, but I have to say the communication and response to issues being raised is extremely refreshing!

Great to see & will certainly be in mind on future Skyhook releases.

 

I agree. This update is shaping up to be quite positive. Thank you jane-skyhook for all your updates - gradually restoring my faith in Skyhook Games.

 

Does that image suggest you’ve changed the ballast colour too? It’s immeasurably better than it was but looking at this video it’s still not quite right;



Some little things I’ve not seen mentioned elsewhere;

- Is there anything to stop you taking some real world EMT platform posters and replacing those generic ones that have existed since GWE first released? It would literally take less than 10-20 minutes to do (particularly if you have decent source material) but would make a noticeable difference to the appearance of the stations.
- The drivers could do to be wearing an EMT uniform (or at least a blue shirt) rather than civvies and a high viz jacket
- The instrument lights on the HST are too dim in the daytime and almost unreadable at night / in a tunnel because they’re so bright
- Stop markers
- Platform signs and general clutter would greatly enhance the route
- Customise the ticket machines to this route (again, easy to do) rather than cut and paste the Eastcoast Way machines
- It looks like the modding guys have added the signage to East Mids Parkway. That really should be there by default for all users, PC or not.

I’m still firmly in the sceptical corner, but I am impressed with the engagement and seeming willingness to improve this. The proof will be in the pudding of course, but there may yet be something in this route after all…

 

Taking into account the differences in lens and focal length, I can't really see a substantial difference.

 

Several screenshots and original recordings from the driver's cab have already been shown here and in another thread, which make the difference clear. Just look, it's clear.

Skyhook itself admits that the vegetation needs improvement and by reading recent posts it appears to be happening. That's good and I hope it will affect the whole track.

 

Of course it is, obviously so.

 

This is excellent feedback thank you and I will pass to the team in the morning.

On your questions we have touched in one way or another all facets of the route down to little details such as colours (you will find some slight disparity sometimes as my shots are from the editor, which often looks different in sim). However, yes we are going over just so many items with a major internal effort.

I have no problem with your scepticism (except I am determined to turn it around) it comes from passion as do all of your comments I have seen across the threads. I share your passion for the railways. It's one of the reasons Skyhook recently hired me

 

Thank you for the kind words. The whole team appreciate them (yes the team lurk here but leave me to the typing!).

 

I just wanted to thank each and everyone of you for your input in this thread and being so civil with each other (especially being civil with me after a long day of work ) I appreciate it very much.

I will keep on sharing content changes and updates and will drill down in to more detail as I am able, including sharing timings etc. We are still knee deep in fixes. I am determined to keep you all abreast of what is going on in the best way that we can. I still envisage a rapid release of the update.

The feedback from all of you has really been heart warming to see. You guys have pointed us in the direction of issues and shared photos etc that really help us nail things. Thank you all.

Every single comment and report here. Every image shared has been circulated amongst the dev groups involved. We are listening.

I also want to assure you all that on my watch at Skyhook we will continue to keep sharing all we can (without us breaching contracts etc but you guys know that!) as we go forward on future projects. This is an ongoing dialogue with you all and not just MML.

I speak for the whole team in thanking each and everyone of you. You all care about this hobby of rail. We do too!

Jane

 

thanks Marc, will send to Tom first thing!

 

For those who may not have seen it , this is the latest list of 158 updates from Will as of this morning, with more to follow. Will you are the best! Thank you!

Update:

17. Implemented DSD pedal movement and sound.
The pedal will depress when you are seated and when resetting vigilance the pedal is raised. Sound cues are included.

18. Sander button doesn't light up. Ever.
*Cries*. But the EMT Class 158 doesn't have an illuminated sand button so realism prevails.

19. Slightly tweaked engine sound.
The release state of the engine had sounds that were tuned to different Simugraph physics (basically the engine stable RPM in each notch was slightly different).

This change is quite subtle and might not be noticeable but the "biggest" change is that the engine will find a higher pitch sound in notch 3 (and some other notches might be lower or higher in pitch). I can't really tell if the transitions are smoother but comparing the new sounds to the real recordings (the sound files used basically has every conceivable notch sequence) it is definitely more accurate (in many cases pretty much indistinguishable). But very subtle stuff if you're not listening to real recordings and comparing.

20. Retuned air brake sound cues.
This one is more noticeable. Basically the brakes will hiss more in line with the brake applications and releases. The old (current) sound scripting is misaligned so you can hear several hisses in a row when going from one step the the next.

21. Reworked guard panel door logic.
Currently the local door button will not open the local door, nor does it stay open when the "close door" button is pressed. I have changed this for the upcoming patch so the guard panel should work realistically. Basically if a guard panel is unlocked and the local door switch is in the "open" position, this door will stay open even if the other doors are closed. Note that if you run around through the train and open doors locally you will need to close them (locally) again to be able to release the brakes. Either by switching the local door button to "close" or locking the guard panel.

Bonus: Skyhook has fixed the Buzzer - Close Door button mix-up.

 

All I’ll say is, you’re making sales here .

I look forward to seeing all this work come to fruition.

 

I would love to see additions: Sheffield, Matlock, Worksop, Lincoln Central and Cleethorpes as well as class 156 and class 222

 

Man the sense of speed in that video. Maybe its the FOV or the shaking, but that hst is FAST.

 

You’ve got me intrigued, and I’m impressed with William’s commitment to the 158. We’ll leave it at that

ps If I’m right, please please please alter the lighting up time to ambient light instead of time of day. DTG promised this was the new standard and IMHO it’s one of the transformative things that can be done.

 

Don't bash devs, the problem always lies with the product management and their unreasonable deadlines...

 

Bug list
1. Floating car stop sign at Nottingham platform 7
2. Passengers blocking driving cab door
3. Guards control panel on 158 has close/signal the wrong way round
4. Pressing signal on 158 there’s no signal sounds
5. Wipers not removing rain on 158
6. There’s 26/25 blue benches to paint and only 24/25 maps

 

jane-skyhook

How difficult is it to add more timetable services? Is this doable? This is one of the highest priority fixes along with signalling and speed limits.

There’s a lot of Leicester-Nottingham 158 services missing (I know in reality they may have been 153/156) and some later night Derby - Nottingham services too.

A full timetable would work wonders!

On another note, over a week later and it’s still one of my favourite TSW routes, haven’t stopped playing!

 

I totally agree and I really like the engagement from Jane at Skyhook, and the updates to progress.

I held off buying this on day one after Rivet's disastrous Scotrail eXpress (yes I know it's a different developer, but there were some very similar issues to this release). Unfortunately, we have come to expect buggy initial releases for TSW, and even after the patch for Rivet's DLC I scarcely find myself return to play it now. But following this thread has really encouraged me in thinking that the patch for MML is shaping up to be really good, and for that reason I'm still waiting in anticipation to buy this route.

I don't think it can be overestimated how much a buggy initial release can sour a route in the consumers' eyes.

Also, this thread has been very interesting to follow as it has ranged from great information on the bugs people are experiencing, legitimate route/functionality issues and helpful details, to wild and unrealistic wish lists and incredibly nit picky quibbles.

 

As I said I am enjoying the route but any improvements are welcome including the scenery. Thank you Jane!

 

Honestly haven't had too many issues! Had more issues with Spirit of Steam crashing.

I'm glad it was released, I have enjoyed it so far.

 

So have any of the listed issues actually been patched of updated or fixed?You would think after all this feedback something would have been updated by now.

 

This asshole regularly blocks my way to the cabin. How can I kick it? I am very angry!

 

To be fair there's a long list of assholes in the door blocking club.But i think he's part of the clubs jazz band and plays the saxs.

 

Sometimes I feel like I'm driving a jazz-band train...

 

Better than dtg for sure.

 

We’ve had this before, both from DTG and Rivet. Contrite, apologetic, ‘we must do better etc’, only for it to rapidly get thrown by the wayside and them almost immediately revert back to type.

Not that I’ve bought the products, but I believe Skyhook have history with putting out software that is broken or sub-par and not fixing it.

The difference here is that Jane has recently joined Skyhook and is certainly talking the talk. It’s only fair to give them (Skyhook) the benefit of the doubt because of that, but the proof will be in the pudding. All the talk in the world will mean nothing if the end product isn’t up to it.

The engagement in this thread has been enough to make me sit up and take notice. I’ll admit I’ve been hyper critical because I’m really fed up with the way the game has been going. If the patch addresses the problems however, then I’m certainly open to buying the route. If this takeover (not that that will effect this of course) and willingness to accept that poor quality is no longer good enough is the way things develop going forward then count me in. Quality sells, attracts new players and is worth the effort. If it turns out to be another false dawn then it will probably be my last for TSW.

 

I agree with you. The last route i bought was brighton main line. I have been wanting edinburgh to glasgow as its my local route, but nope, and mml was a must, but hanged off in case of issues as par edinburgh glasgow was. So i am eager and waiting to see what comes off mml after updates. To be honest, when a new route is launching i dont even bother getting hyped up about it. As i know whats coming from ppl that buy it day 1

 

Given them a chance! Software isn't magic - it takes time to reproduce a bug, find what the problem is, and then find a fix.
Then you have to test for regressions (to see that the fix hasn't broken anything else).
Then you have to collate all the fixes into a patch.
Then you have to test the whole lot to make sure the whole package hasn't broken anything.
Then you can release it.

And bear in mind that they're probably burned out from the death march to the initial release date - which was only last week, remember? And they'll have been working flat-out this week too...

No, I'm not a dev at Skyhook, but I am a software dev - been doing it for 35+ years, and their current situation is one that I can only sympathise with...

 

Couldn’t make this forum up sometimes, the amount of criticism for a DLC being rushed and released with bugs and then there’s criticism for a patch not being rushed out and released quick enough!

I give up!

Surely the longer the better to ensure everything is addressed?!

 

Exactly my point.

Clearly Skyhook are taking this seriously - they've got their CTO engaging with us... That's sign enough that they recognise they've dropped the ball big time for this release. If they fail to learn anything from this s**tstorm then they deserve to reap what they sow next time, but at least they're TRYING now. In an ideal world the person or people responsible for the rushed release will already have left the company, or at least been moved aside - ha ha, ideally into test roles, where they can learn about software development the hard way...

 

Whilst not a total game changer if you walk out of Long Eaton station in-game to the road there is zero road traffic, considering IRL Long Eaton is classed as a town having zero traffic in a town is totally unrealistic IMO. Looking forward to the release of the patch though, so Thank you in advance Jane

 

Ctrl-0 instantly puts you back in the drivers chair.

 

I mean it’s one user, who has always been the same way. For that we have the ignore list.

 

I know, I know. It just never fails to surprise me the amount of people that have problems with a DLC, considering they were never ever ever buying another piece of DLC or giving a single penny to DTG, 4 DLC’s ago

 

Just to make this clear: Good communication is one thing, but action must also follow. So far no update has been released. A timeframe has also not yet been named, only that one would work on it as soon as possible. Let's wait!

With DTG itself, e.g. with BRO, a major update was installed fairly quickly after the release, where many bugs were fixed.

In fact, to make the Midland Route really beautiful, it takes more than a few small fixes. I'm still skeptical that there's really going to be that much.

I'll give Skyhook a chance though.

 

Morning everyone,

I just wanted to share a small Syston update. A few of you have requested the weeds between the tracks. Here they are in all of their glory.

Yes, it is a small update, but the point I am trying to make is that we are listening to all of you and making scores of changes, big and small across the product. I also really wanted the "Syston weeds" as they will forever be called after seeing Marc's photo

 

The only thing I'm wary of is that according to LondonMidland a lot of MML issues were flagged by the beta team but instead of excercising this 'we take pride in our work' attitude and delaying it's launch, decisions were instead made to fix what absolutely needed addressing and leave the rest for a future patch, so contrary to those "slipping the net" comments this route was released with known issues....and as we should all politely remind ourselves, in time honoured TSW tradition, once the money is in the bank a lot of these known issues tend to get overlooked.

Also, before people jump on the "deadline" bandwagon they should cast their minds back to Matt's public flogging of Jasper/Rivet Games during the preview of West Cornwall....and it's subsequent delayed release in order to put those wrong's (some of which seemed pretty trivia) right - so no excuses, delays can be made.

Look, I'm all in favour of benefit of the doubt but unfortunately TSW is built around many, many benefits of the doubt so from a deeply sceptical perspective the op's comments don't come through as being particularly genuine, they just act as a disturbing reminder of all those previous and equally as profound statements that have never, ever materialised.

Sorry for sounding a bit harsh but this game really does suck the enthusiasm out of you.

 

I’d say the two contrast though.

DTG had the BRO fixes ready to go, but chose to go ahead and release anyway, very little (if anything) of player requests were implemented.

Skyhook so far are not only addressing issues they know of, but are actively responding to player requests.

Now in both cases I think neither should of been released when the devs & publishers knew they weren’t ready, but Skyhook is taking it one step further and taking onboard requested changes, which DTG are usually resistant to.

Of course I’m not excusing either, the main issue still remains (stop releasing stuff like this), and Skyhook has a long way to go before I’ll be confident in their wider TSW range. I don’t have the energy anymore for having to go though this malarkey for every release. 5 years of it has really wore me down.

 

Quick query about signalling again, for the signalling experts or drivers who sign the route.

On approach to Nottingham we have an approach release from red at signal TN4957. This is for an 80 to 40mph turnout. However, just before the turnout we have a permanent speed restriction of 50mph. Just wondering if approach control is needed here, as your speed should be down to 50 mph anyway and therefore it's only going to be a 10mph speed differential for the turnout?

 

Any Raildriver fixes being worked for the update?

 

Hey Ravi,

Any raildriver fixes is something that would need to be asked to Dovetail as part of their core simulation. It is not something we have access to change as a third party developer.

all the best
Jane