Midland Mainline - Skyhook Feedback

Not totally sure why this tiresome debate has invaded yet another thread- can't we have a dedicated "DTG Yay vs. DTG Boo" thread so the others could remain at least partially on-topic?

 

But these features have been developed and used at least once. Surely the development of the feature is what consumes the budget, if that’s already done then it is simply a case of inputting the developed feature in to the route. If something is causing that part of the process to take longer, or be harder than TSC, then I’d suggest DTG really do have an issue here. Each time that developed feature is used to improve a route DTG are earning their money back on it 10-fold.

The same goes for assets. As far as Midland Mainline goes, and I’m happy to be corrected here, but I understand that an asset is developed in Blender (or whatever they use), placed in to a route using the editor and once set up UE4 does the rest. If JT are able to have people building custom assets for every route they publish only someone intentionally blind to that would be making excuses for DTG or their third parties simply using the same generic stuff in route after route after route. We’ve already seen that some of the guys making mods have improved the models that shipped with this route by adding to them in Blender. If they can do it, why not Skyhook?

Please don’t think I’m criticising you for what is a valid point, but I just cannot wrap my head around this willingness to excuse DTG selling us (because ultimately, through choice, they are responsible for all of it) a totally inconsistent product from one week to the next. It’s almost like some people feel sorry for them and are just grateful for whatever crumbs of broken or half-complete content they chuck our way. I find it baffling.

 

Let's go for both, I don't see why the two should be mutually exclusive.

 

Even fluffy green dinosaurs? Donkeys? Odd-looking feral cats? Never seen any of those on any railway.

 

Nothing wrong with them. If we're looking down that lens, Mastery tiles are the thing we should be going for. Some of those are madness.

 

I’m sure I heave watched a video/stream where ATS have said (and I guess it’s an aspiration, DTG may yet have the final say) that collectibles have no place in a simulator, that they are a feature of a game. I wholeheartedly agree.

 

Same with the giant Octopus attacking the ship at St Ives, I've locked that.

 

It's hardly game breaking and I suspect it has no cost to the quality of the route.

 

That and the WCL kraken are the worst

 

Their words, not mine. I just agree with them. They make sim content, collectibles are gamey.

 

Mastery rewards can be turned off at least so its not the end of the world. I do like some of Rivets tbf but I guess people all have their own likes and dislikes

Edit: Personally I like the collectibles but again I can see why certain people wouldn't.

 

It does seem like there could be lots more plug-in modularity between routes than there is, but that's of course talking from an outside view. It also seems like it if were as possible as it looks, then it would be implemented, so there must be reasons why not. Impossible to say from this vantage.

Reasons vs excuses can be a tricky line to walk. Personally, I try to gravitate toward half-full.

 

Me too generally, but when I’m paying for an expensive product that’s an inconsistent mess then maybe not so much.

 

as much as we know ATS’s opinions on collectibles, i’m sure alan said they’ll be included as it’s a standard thing with all routes in tsw

 

Is this a MML/Skyhook feedback thread or a debate about collectables and mastery? Just asking

 

i believe not loli don’t really see why collectibles bother people, simply avoid collecting them if you don’t like the idea…

 

The Fun Police don't like that - if they don't want to do it, nobody can do it.

But, how about we all get back on topic.

 

good plan

 

Appreciate you sharing this, thank you!

 

Coming up on 2 weeks since release and still no patch/update to be found...

 

And this community complains about devs rushing things...

Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.

 

Given the massive list of fixes and improvements suggested in this thread, I'm not surprised.

 

And you will be the first to complain if they rush the fixes out and they don't work properly or break something else!

 

Mate if they're going to rush to release a broken paid dlc the least they could do is put a patch out within the first few days. (It's called a Day one patch look it up)

Ideally we would've gotten some of the more essential improvements within the first week after release, and the rest would come later

You're goddamn right i would. I paid 30 quid for this hot garbo and if they break it even further than already I'm well within my right to complain

 

It takes time to do things. If they rushed a patch out and it caused even more problems, you'd be complaining even more. Just wait for it, it'll come when it's ready. (This is called patience, look it up)

 

Whilst I completely agree that Skyhook should take their time to get this right, I also agree that we shouldn’t need to be waiting in the first place.

The whole mentality of release what you’ve got now, then fix it later is a plague in modern gaming, and it’s a shame to see so many people have accepted it now.

We aren’t paying budget development prices, but we’re getting budget development service.

 

I am content to wait and give them a chance. At least they are engaging with the customers as to what needs to be done. We don’t know and probably never will what contractual or other obligations prompted it to be released. The 158 and HST are largely okay, yes the route is a bit of a mess so far as signalling and speed limits are concerned but it’s not undriveable. I would much rather they take two or three weeks, even an entire month if necessary and get some decent tested fixes in the patch.

 

So they are on a hiding to nothing then. You want them to get a patch out quickly, presumably too quick for them to get it ready correctly but you want it to be perfect at the same time. Maybe you just want to aim your ire at them.

Yes it shouldn't have been released like it has been, although it was well known very quickly so you didn't need to purchase it. I was ready to refund it if it hadn't been for this thread appearing.

 

I remember Alan saying on a stream (I think) that they have some ideas for what they can do with the collectables. I don't remember him saying they would completely exclude them but I may be wrong.

Personally I agree they shouldn't be there or at the very least there should be an option to turn them off so there are no missing posters, tipped over litter bins etc by default.

 

I can see both sides of the arguments above, but hopefully shouldn't be too long now.

I wouldn't have minded a quick initial patch to update the erroneous AWS/TPWS/speed and signalling issues (shouldn't take more than a day to fix, surely?), then wait for a second patch with the new timetable and scenery additions. I think the later would take a bit more time to implement so I'm happy to wait longer for that.

 

I'm happy to wait for as long as it takes.

 

100% I've said this myself elsewhere that this is how many developers (or, I should say, publishers) work. That is the ideal.

But as this doesn't seem to be the methodology in practice at the moment, it's definitely unsurprising that it's going to take a few weeks. If it works better for them to do it all in one go and make sure everything works together now, rather than later, and we are only another week away or so (Jane has suggested it isn't far off), that isn't too bad a wait. Compared to, say, 6-ish years for a broken save game to get any attention at all (that's the kind of thing I don't want to see happening again, versus only a few weeks for a plethora of post-release fixes and improvements to arrive).

It would certainly be better to see a different methodology going forwards, though, that sees more of the significant issues captured and fixed before release, and small fixes made within a few days of release.

 

I do think that the point here is why does everything have to be fixed in one patch?

As mentioned elsewhere, a patch fix for the AWS/TPWS issue could have come out and then another for the next issue etc etc. The timetable update is a nice to have but not essential at this point.

 

I am in favor of releasing one global patch that will satisfy most of the community's expectations. If the release is scheduled in installments, after the release of the first patch, the developer may feel an easing of criticism and we will have a long period of waiting for everything else, if it ever happens at all. I propose to be patient and give the opportunity to complete everything at the proper level.

 

BE.PATIENT
Most of the time here is for Steam/ microsoft and Sony to internally test and approve the patches
It's not flick a switch and it's live.
The platforms do their own checks too.

 

It takes a lot of time to test for regressions when you create a patch... if you know there's another patch on the cards it makes sense to roll them all up together, otherwise the dev team will just be thrashing about duplicating effort and wasting a lot of time.

 

From what I've seen of the AWS, TPWS, speed restrictions etc. more than a few days there. It really needs taking back to scratch and starting again. As I said, there are AWS ramps without anything associated, signals without TPWS "SPAD" grids, speed limits with no signage or the sign before or after where it starts on the ground, missing advance speed boards. Without knowing how signalling links etc. work in the editor this could take some time to do and, with no disrespect to the original team member who did this side of things, they need to bring in someone who knows what they are doing in this regard.

 

Think I would rather them take there time so they get everything right

 

Don't the platforms charge fees for title updates?

 

I´ve asked that myself several times because I suspect that the cost factor is a major player and the reason why many patches are not yet and/or never delivered. Although in the pipeline for quite some time.
One thing is for sure: There´s no such thing like "free lunch".

https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/costs-for-patch-slots-on-ps-store-ms-steam-epic-etc.64640/

 

I think it depends on the platform.

Steam don't charge, as far as I know; Sony don't charge any more, or that might be for indie developers only...

It would certainly be a legitimate reason to get everything updated in a large batch, even if only one of the platforms charges a fee.

 

I seem to remember Ian Bell (SMS) saying that Microsoft do charge for patch submissions so they tended to do less frequent (but more comprehensive) updates for Project Cars on XBox. He also mentioned that keeping patch notes down to a bare minimum (not declaring everything, so to speak) increased the chance of it/them going thru Microsoft's validation process. A dodgy person to the very end.

 

I agree there’s a lot to do on signalling, AWS and TPWS.

The only thing I would say (which might make it grate a little less!) is that not all signals in real life have TPWS train stop ‘grids’. Only those assessed as high risk.

I can’t defend the other things though!

 

you are correct. Lots of exciting work going on at the moment.

Rivet took a year to attempt to fix their catastrophe and even then, they broke it even further. Haha

 

Hi Jane, I don't know if this has been mentioned but you cannot sit in any of the seats on the HST, also the brakes take a very excessive amount of time to release on the HST making it almost impossible to keep to timetables. Also welcome to the community

 

Very pleased to know that Skyhook are improving the timetable for Midland Main Line. Also welcome to the forum Jane and thank you for sharing updates with us.

 

It’s a totally minor thing. But I really hope they fix the destination boards on the trains. It might sound silly but it really helps make a route feel more alive just seeing that trains are going to destinations off the map. For instance the 158’s that go to Lincoln should show Lincoln on the destination board instead they show Derby. Same as the Matlock/Newark services only showing Nottingham and Leicester.

 

So, can we get a timeline to fix all the issues with this route? It’s a practically unplayable train wreck (see what I did there?). I like the trains but the signaling and speed limit bugs are just too numerous to mention. Please let us know you’re fixing it.

 

Jane from SHG has been letting us know what's being fixed throughout the thread when she can. It's playable for many of us despite the problems brought up in the entire thread. The degree of enjoyment certainly varies from individual to individual. The fixes will be ready when they're ready, no deadline/timeline has been mentioned, and I personally would prefer if SHG took their time and got it right rather than rushing out a patch that only breaks more stuff.