Manchester - Glossop & Hadfield Announced

The section to Hadfield certainly in the 1970's was in the LMR, certainly according to the WTT from 1977 I have.

 

Yes, I fear you're right that it (rather sensibly) was handed over to the LMR by that date. I'm just trying to cheer up matt#4801 by justifying it as an Eastern Region route in the true traditionalist sense!

 

Well they got everything wrong in the 1970's anyway!

 

Fair enough, apologies for misunderstanding what you said there Matt

 

I did consider that but discarded it because of the hand over.
Good try but I think I am going to have to go back and stand on the rooftops shouting until my cries for the East of England to be in game are heard down in Kent!!

 

That's good to know as i live in Greater Manchester so Northern are one of my local train providers so can't wait to see what other parts of the network Dovetail will cover.

 

Really quite looking forward to this one, especially seeing as it’s at a cheaper price point. Very happy the Northern license is on the way.

 

Hey, just to correct you, I think you're a few years out of date with your traction there.

TransPennine Express run the service to both Manchester Airport and to Stalybridge and beyond to Leeds etc with their Class 185s. You do not see any 158s at Manchester Piccadilly other than ones run by East Midlands Trains/Railway, which run 1tph in both directions from platforms 13&14.

You do see Northern 158s in Manchester, however, these are from Manchester Victoria, which is not part of this line.

 

Nice to finally see a modern North West England route! My Grandparents took me on this line several times when I was younger so will probably pick it up soon after release.

 

I know its not much, but really hope we atleast get AI East Midlands Trains layered in at Piccadilly. From my spotting trip to the hope valley I noted all (that day atleast) were still in the EMT liveried (albeit with EMR logos).

 

Instead of creating a new route they could add an extension to an existing route, even short like this would bring a lot to the game (and sold as a separate DLC)

 

Going against the grain here, but, with the announcement of this route, I've noticed the debate it's brought up...

I, personally, don't want to be stapled to my PC or console for over an hour at times, what's wrong with a bit of variety!? Beside that, we have little to no idea yet how it'll look and perform.

People tend to forget that, it's not a collect-a-thon.
If your disappointed, that's a shame, as no one likes being disappointed, but, variety is the spice of life. In my head, I've always compared TSW to a model railway, I'll buy what I'm interested in first, new experiences second.

I'm interested to see how this route progresses. I think it could well be one of the best in regards to performance and lack of day 1 bugs and issues, smaller area to cover, less options for errors.

I'm also interested to see how DTG will implement the cab changeovers, as, we've notoriously not had much time to set-up cabs before the service start time in the past.

As for the empty hub stations, no one seems to be thinking ahead, as with Birmingham New Street, yes, it's dead, but they have the asset now from which to build on, the same thing happened with Brighton years back, first east coastway, then the rush hour Gatwick express.

People asked for longer routes, but longer routes take more time, especially if you want them detailed and correct. From what I've seen, DTG are building are base of assets to launch from, that coupled with more detailed and open source tech like LIDAR, will make longer routes cheeper and less intensive to make.

 

They're very rare to venture down to Hadfield, even to this current day. Think it was just a one off/to see how one would perform on the line.

The Hadfield Line has been predominately run by solely 323s for many years now.

 

Glad to see Northern (I work for them) and will definitely be purchasing (first time in a long time) this when it comes.
As long as the service variety and timetable length is good that will do for me

 

Must admit I'm intrigued by this upcoming route. Length has never been an issue for me. Short is fine, longer with the save game is also fine.

What interests me is the route quality, timetable and gameplay. I'll be keeping an open mind.

I'm not enamored of the emu paradigm in the UK, there are just too many in the game already. But if I'm forced to choose one, the 323 is probably the best. Joe the fish tells me that this line pretty much jumped from steam directly to electric, so no regular diesel is appropriate, mores the pity.

At probably $25-30, why not? For a quick 30 minutes drive, it might be perfect.

PS: Please make the night lighting decent for a change.

 

Niddertalbahn is a short route but I think it works great because there is a lot of stations and the maximum speed is 60km/h. HRR is short too but it's faster, while it's a nice route I enjoy NID more. I don't know the speeds of this new route.

 

Yes, admittedly I was commenting without knowing precisely when the route is to be set. As ever, making it present day closes down the options considerably. 158s operated those services, until recently but not, as you say, in the present day.

It would be good to see the EMR ones as AI though, for visual variety.

 

So short and this should have been the TSC Woodhead in Blue 61 miles Code CD Electic DC Diesel Electric instead of Woodhead Line Manchester-Glossop Hadfield. The good news is that DTG has the Northern Rail Licence which can open the possibility of their Trans Pennine route via Halifax & Bradford Interchange. The Bradford Interchange Halifax Manchester Victoria route can give Northern Rail 150/2 195 158 170 DLC 155 156 to here as subs for 323. 323 Northern counts for the BCC version for mileage runs. On the TSC Woodhead Blue Manual, there are solutions for Class 76 failures like Line Voltage and clear call system

 

Haven’t DTG had the Northern licence for years?

Way back in the early days of TSW a discussion was being had here and I (and others) were lamenting the lack of Northern routes. Someone from DTG, I can’t remember who (it may have been Steve, it also may not. It definitely wasn’t Matt), replied to me specifically and said they’d recently got the Northern licence so ‘watch this space’. Nothing more ever came of it.

Regarding this route, even at £19.99 and even though it’s in the North, at 12 miles I’m really not sure. I don’t believe it will any more detailed than any other DTG route so 12 miles is just too short in my opinion. There’s a good chance there is more track in the Christmas Elf DLC.

 

My interest was piqued during the stream when JD and Matt were talking of reasons to be excited, thinking it was a new direction for DTG like constructing larger networks in smaller pieces à la SEHS, but apparently the reason we should be excited is because… it’s a small route. Fair’s fair though, if the route is done with something of the care, attention, and detail of Niddertalbahn, that is definitely interesting and I’m all for increased immersion. However being realistic I don’t think this will be the case. I will keep an open mind though, it could be worth a punt for 20 notes.

 

It can’t possibly be though right? We’ve been told forever and a day that Niddertalbahn was a labour of love and took a thoroughly dedicated team at least a year and a half to make. We certainly shouldn’t expect to see a route like that again as it’s just not possible.

So either the line that’s been spun about Niddertalbahn is BS or, more likely, you’re about to get a short, standard detail route with a recycled train.

 

I’m actually quite excited for the route contrary to just about everyone else. As a native Mancunian I can relate to this route much more than NTP since I was not alive at the time. BCC was great for the 323 but this time it’s in an area I’m familiar with. No doubt in my mind it will appear in my library at some point.

 

I actually like shorter routes, but my rationale is, what does this offer that I can't already get elsewhere?

The train is already in BCC, does the route offer anything special? I'm not particularly enamored to the Northern licence, so I can't see any real draw that I can't already do.

Unless someone can enlighten me?

 

I am still struggling to see the appeal, even at the budget price. Cathcart is probably closest in concept but despite the emptiness of Glasgow Central it works quite well as you have four distinct service groups - the outer and inner circle, Neilston and Newton.

If they wanted to get more mileage out of the 323 then the sensible thing to have attempted was expanding BCC, maybe to Walsall, Wolverhampton or Coventry (preferably all three). But no, route building resources have been squandered on another one trick pony orphaned short project. We will shortly have three routes in the Manchester area (NTP, PF at Chinley and MGH), all different eras and none joining to make a network.

 

How can anyone sell it to you when you've basically said you don't want the route? Buy it and enjoy it for what it is, or don't.

 

20 quid still isn't worth it imo. There's been a massive decline of prpduct quality since the release of TSW 3. Its getting a joke now and all they do is sugar coat answers is what I got from last night's stream. Reeks of "same turd, different toilet"

 

Where have I said I don't want it?
The question is, have I missed something that it offers that you can't get elsewhere? Is there something unique about the route?

 

I’m glad it’s an end to end route, whilst longer routes are probably preference, I don’t mind it being shorter as most of the time, I’d change ends and go back the way so that’s a decent run.

I also really like the 323 so no issues with using a train we already have.

At £19.99 I will probably pick this up but the key is that there needs to be AI at Piccadilly for me. We have the trains to populate it a bit even if these are undrivable.

 

Make your own decision

 

It's called discussion, I know it's cool these days to stymy things you disagree with, but I'll ask the question again, for someone with a bit more grace to answer rather than derail.
Is there anything in the route that offers anything we don't already have, or is there anything unique?

FWIW, the youtube video doesn't show in your post, but does in my quote.

 

Will the pantograph sparks be fixed on the 323, I wonder.

 

Historic OHLE gantry's, a rundown over grown line, in a mix of city centre, urban and countryside, an impressive viaduct. If you mean any unique features whe don't have that information yet.

 

Ok, interest piqued.

Thanks!

 

Working fine on BCC?..

 

Of course it's discussion, I was trying to add to it by posting a video of the route. As non of us have seen the actual route yet, it'll be hard for us to say but once the beta keys are handed out, I'll happily compare with IRL videos and give you my opinions.

 

In some ways each route is unique but most routes have features other routes do.

I like it as it goes from and urban cityscape to areas of attractive scenery around Dinting and Glossp. It would have been even bettter set 50 years ago with a class 506 and the ability to take a 76 over the Woodhead but I am not unhappy with this. Another advantage for me is that sometimes it is nice to have a shorter route to run on, I enjoy Cross City but I have to be in the mood for it.

 

I aint seen the live stream yet. But from what i have read on the article. Doesnt seem very engaging. And if its full price. Then no thanks

 

It's not full price,it's £19.99

 

It’s £20, possibly £18 if they do a pre release offer, but really £15 would have been a better price for what’s on offer here.

 

So with the hindsight of pricing, this route will work for me on a decent sale.

Can’t say I’m optimistic that the shorter length will result in better quality, and I’m sure that any time saved on development won’t be used on testing or pre-release fixes.

I’m definitely not excited about yet another busy terminus coming with one train.

There are obvious benefits to this route (ToC, opportunity for the 323 on a shorter run, Modern Manchester, end to end etc), but that run into Piccadilly is going to be horrible. DTG just cannot do accurate city scapes, and the tracks & station will be so, so empty.

This scale of DLC does need to exist, otherwise we won’t get such routes, but they need to come after the ultra busy, main terminus has already been done & at least has some other traffic.

For me this DLC was just poor scope on DTG’s side.

 

Yes it’s a bit like asking for another tube route and they give us the Waterloo and City Line! Though with the old 487’s, I might buy that for a tenner. As you note CK, not against shorter routes per se, if they are interesting and feed in revenue to support the bigger projects. But it seems lately everything getting released, not just the UK, is getting shorter and shorter.

 

Maybe that is what this route will be doing. I suspect there might be something bigger around the corner for Summer or Autumn. I think they have read enough comments on the forums to know what many users feelings are.

Personally I think it could be an interesting route, I have enjoyed it in TSC, although I would definitely prefer a class 506 to a 323, I do enjoy driving the class 323, it is very immersive.

 

I must say I'm interested in the (short) route, I had a blast with (similar but different) Cathcart Circle Line and IOW so I guess I somehow spoil the party as being the target audience

 

I agree that some sort of communication on the overall direction / grand plan would be welcome - from a customer point of view, the releases do feel a bit disparate.

I look forward very much to the hypothetical Large Routes coming as part of an As-Yet Unannounced Summer Release.

 

Indeed, let the speculation begin!
TSW4 unlikely before next year, so… London-Peterborough?

 

Here's something i haven't seen addressed yet,as we have seen DTG has become notorious for overhead powered trains missing wires on longer routes so unless the 323 has onboard batteries.What the are chances DTG will be able to get the full line wired up,without missing any.it only 13 miles.but this is DTG better have some batteries handy.

 

13 Miles should, you would imagine, give the need for them to make it good quality. I think missing wires are just little accidental things that fly under the radar. Hardly game breaking.

 

Your right it's not but this is a sold as a train sim game i wonder where and what train line DTG observed overhead powered train who had various sections of overhead lines missing and decided that should be in game to.This isn't really a major problem but it keeps happening and keeps getting ignored by whoever does quality control.How can matt say there trying to get better if something so obvious is seen so frequently but simply ignored.

 

If a price and content are correct even if short, it is good