Midland Mainline - Skyhook Feedback

Very pleased to know that Skyhook are improving the timetable for Midland Main Line. Also welcome to the forum Jane and thank you for sharing updates with us.

 

It’s a totally minor thing. But I really hope they fix the destination boards on the trains. It might sound silly but it really helps make a route feel more alive just seeing that trains are going to destinations off the map. For instance the 158’s that go to Lincoln should show Lincoln on the destination board instead they show Derby. Same as the Matlock/Newark services only showing Nottingham and Leicester.

 

So, can we get a timeline to fix all the issues with this route? It’s a practically unplayable train wreck (see what I did there?). I like the trains but the signaling and speed limit bugs are just too numerous to mention. Please let us know you’re fixing it.

 

Jane from SHG has been letting us know what's being fixed throughout the thread when she can. It's playable for many of us despite the problems brought up in the entire thread. The degree of enjoyment certainly varies from individual to individual. The fixes will be ready when they're ready, no deadline/timeline has been mentioned, and I personally would prefer if SHG took their time and got it right rather than rushing out a patch that only breaks more stuff.

 

Agree. I was sceptical but the route is far from unplayable. Just leave the safety systems off for now and ensure the HUD is on to pick up the speed limit changes.

 

Try reading the rest of this thread ....

 

I bought the route, I've pestered DTG before for some East Midlands action. I'm gutted the branch line doesn't go so far as Newark / Lincoln, but still happy. From what I remember as a kid, you've done a great job of 90s Nottingham Station. I must admit on first play I was quite disappointed with the route. I'm playing on PS5, I still use PS4 too and accept that as the routes / scenery get more compex I will see performance struggles on last gen. But to see scenery popping up right next to me on PS5, textures and colours being loaded in 5 meters in front of the train - it kind of felt like I WAS playing it on my PS4! Some of the draw distances for shadows and detail just didn't feel like current gen. The HST seems to have a number of buttons incorrect (DSD back to front, plus the one next to it too). AWS has stopped me for no reason just outside of Nottingham before 2 bridges (2.9 miles out I think) with no AWS tone to warn me.


I've gone back and played some more since, and I have to say I really love the route. The engines are beautiful, the scenery is great, you did a fantastic job modelling the power plant (although the outdoor plant should be lit up at night, it's a 24hr operation after all). You've done a really great job on the night time services - something that many have got wrong in Train Sim World. You really are driving in thick, pitch black in this route. The route is beautifully lit at night - signals stand out nice and bright, villages and buildings illuminated nicely, you get to see your train emerge from the darkness, the light glinting off of the paintwork before it fades back in to the night ... Absolutely fantastic. Inside the cab with just the instrument lights for company, Seeing a pair of car headlights going over a bridge in the distance... Just really really good.

I love be your post, it's very reassuring to know that the developer truly cares about their product.

Looking forward to the update ❤️

Edit; I'm playing the 158 now. The engines seem to spool up awfully fast on this compared to how I remember them? The door released when lit indicator in the cab doesn't seem to work .. Also Barrow Upon Soar there are passengers just spawning out of nowhere at the end of the platform... Damn future people and their teleportation devices, hey?

 

No, what did you do there?

 

Ok, so I'm playing the 158 now. The engines seem to spool up awfully fast on this compared to how I remember them? The "door released when lit" indicator in the cab doesn't seem to work .. Also Barrow Upon Soar there are passengers just spawning out of nowhere at the end of the platform... Damn future people and their teleportation devices, hey?


Also, I'm playing the 1hr long scenario in the 158 (top one on the list I think). Approaching Nottingham the safety system are being tripped several times for seemingly no reason - no AWS warning alarm sounded. I got the train moving twice, then just pulling up the last few yards at Nottingham station, it black screened and crashed the game. I was streaming gameplay at the timetime so it's all in the last 5 to ten mins of this clip. Also the game crash - that is the end of the clip. It doesn't show it as it hangs the Broadcast too.

https://www.youtube.com/live/FqTgSMcV1-4?feature=share

 

Mml is receiving a significant patch that is still being worked on. More details for the broad fixes are in the may roadmap and the link I'm including below is some of the simulation elements planning to come as well.
https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/class-158-simulation-bits-bobs.69403/

 

Absolutely deliberately to be honest. I want to make sure that we get as much in there in patch 1 as possible. The entire team are working really hard to update and fix things.

all the best
Jane

 

Can I ask why you just seem to release UK EMU after UK EMU route? Skyhook's MML was a nice change. Now we have Manchester - Hadfield & Glossop. Which is yet another EMU route with a 323 seen before in Cross City. Not a single mainline electric locomotive or some more freight locomotives such 58, 60 or 70 for a bit of variety. As we have the Class 700 which is another EMU! Is someone at DTG a EMUoholic?

 

Pretty sure Peak Forest doesn't contain an EMU!

 

No, of course it doesn't. But he/she has a point. I've made the same argument myself. There's an occasional interruption but for the most part, it's one emu after another.

There are plenty of DMU's and diesel locos prowling the UK rail system even today, are there not? Some of them might actually be hauling freight, heaven forbid!

Is it just easier and cheaper to make those toy-like, plastic look- alikes with the pretty colors? I believe another one, the 700, is in the pipeline.

 

Amazingly it does not (unless its an EMU in Steam clothing). Flippant remark aside, go through the recent UK releases and it is EMU route after EMU route followed by another EMU dlc with the Class 700. My point is a lack of variety and interesting rotes and stock.

 

Probably due to it being more popular due to the younger population and dtg have said modern stuff is usually more preferred over older content. Well, it depends on what generation and what you grew up with. It is also easier to get reference material since it is running today which means they can just go out with permission of course and record sounds, ask drivers what the experience is like, etc.

 

We definitely need alternatives to the 66 on freight for the UK. This is long overdue and German content has lots more variety of locos which can haul freight or the dostos. Even the IC coaches have a choice of locos!

 

Just to be clear with a couple of things from me. I do appreciate everyone is waiting for the patch. You can put the delay on to me as I am making sure we fix just as much as we can for patch 1. It is really important to me.

The poster above talking about things having to be checked by numerous groups and certifications is quite correct. I cannot go in to contractuals and platform rules with Sony, Steam etc. However, the reason I am aiming for big patches (which may take a little longer) is because we only have so many patch windows and on top of this all the signoffs that would drag things down. It isn't actually financial, more logistical.

I am closer to being happy with the patch and my plan is for a May release. However, a sudden major issue found or a logistical thing means I am not going to commit to that with you guys, as it is unfair. I only release information that is 100% solid. I don't want egg on my face, which reflects on me and Skyhook. I also don't want to let all of you down. I can tell you there has been a bucket load of work and we are getting close to our planned release window.

I just want to be very very careful in what I communicate to manage expectations. People hinting we are going to fire and forget or that the patch will be a quick fix and route forgotten will not happen on my watch. I just cannot in all conscience make promises when in software dev there is always risk.

I hugely appreciate the support from all of you here as do the whole team. I want to play fair with all of you in relation to expectations at every stage as you deserve it as customers (and fans like me!). I would rather not say anything (and risk being accused of us sat on our hands) than say something which has to be retracted later.

I can tell you all in honesty we are working at a rapid pace. I just came out of a patch meeting minutes ago and I am really pleased with progress. I just want all boxes ticked before I share with you guys, so what you read here is stable, rather than on shifting sands.

Jane

 

To be fair, most people familiar with northern have likely grown up with DMU’s.

The 323 is not common place at all, for Manchester, and I reckon that DTG specifically looked for somewhere they could reuse stock (yes I am aware of what was said in the stream, but are we really still believing DTG’s words?).

There are plenty of Northern routes that would have fit a small length, and most of them could have been done without an EMU or a huge main station which will be empty. They would also of been able to layer the stock future on routes, but a 323 in Northern livery won’t be going anywhere else.

150/1 or a 156 would of been much better options.

 

Modern stuff can still include Class 68, Class 70, Class 88, loads of freight options and not just passenger either. UK DLC is becoming all too similar and lacking variety.

How about a Class 90 and 91 York to Newcastle (which is a TSC route). Have routers like GWR that can be set in different time periods with add on's. Like with Diesel Legends which I thought was a great idea, but possibly commercially not so? Probably not helped by 1970's traction on a route set in the 2010s....

 

Gee, maybe that's because nearly all passenger services in the UK today are EMUs.

 

Not many EMUs in Devon, Cornwall, the East Midlands, Wales, north of Scotland.

 

Add the northwest to that too, along with DMU’s & Locos which cover the entire country.

Massive swathes of the UK have diesel routes all over the place.

 

Two sarcastic responses from people who should know better.

You may not agree with devsecops#8603, but he deserves a little respect for a serious post.

 

Not to mention there are still loco hauled services running in a few places - various overnight trains, Chiltern Railways with the superb 68's, not sure if TfW are still doing loco hauled on the North & West. Also think some TPE services are now loco hauled, with a Class 68 named after Felix, the famous station cat at Huddersfield.

 

Transport for wales still run a push pull set on their Holyhead to Cardiff train apparently! Saw it on my way back from uni with a 68, mk4s and DVT, which was a very interesting sight

 

Gee, maybe DTG want the easiest dev route...

Only 38% of the UK network is electrified so you are incorrect. There are plenty of DMU passenger routes with 155, 156, 170, 22X family, 195,196,197 not yet covered off to name a few. Odd services are still loco hauled too.

My other point was also about the lack of freight services and lack of locos to go with them. Without multiple flavours of the Electrostar and now two routes with the 323.

 

None of which taste particularly nice.

 

Nope, even smothered in Ketchup the bitter taste of EMU bleeds through

 

If only… We’re only discovering 25kv AC electrification here in the East Midlands today

In all seriousness, there are still huge parts of the UK which are DMU only operated, as they have no electrification.

 

Maybe it was a little out of order and I apologise but there is a lot of hyperbole on here at the moment. DTG have made plenty of non EMU routes and who knows what is round the corner. I would also like some more variety, I am more of a fan of diesels than EMU's myself. This route is clearly something of a gap filler, it isn't their usual route so I am not surprised it is what it is.

Building a route and having to build a new diesel train would not make this a £20 route I would imagine.

 

And lines like Grantham to Skegness, Central Wales, Cambrian Coast, anything north of Perth probably unlikely to ever see it!

 

Grantham to Skegness, Central Wales, Cambrian Coast and North Perth does seem like an interesting route

 

I’ve just tried the HST during a night run and wow. The lighting is absolutely horrific. The saloon lights are so bright that the passengers are almost transparent. It looks really bad. The light is so bright that it bleeds through the carriage and onto the outside of the train.

Can we add this to the list of things that need to be fixed. It’s not a major thing. I just think the light source needs to be dialled down a bit. The 158 looks absolutely glorious at night and I know that the windows of that were altered pre-release as people pointed out they were too clear. Can we do the same for the HST. It would be a shame for such a fantastic model to be let down by something so easily fixable.

 

For me i didnt refund, but this dlc really made me stop going with tsw. Yes SHG is working on a patch, but im really done spending money on that LOVE.

I would say going 10 steps back is a major problem. And relsase content without polishing..., a truely smart decision.

 

Tired of this whining about "Electrostar". If you don't like him, it doesn't mean that it's bad for others. I get great pleasure from these beautiful trains. If modern routes are filled with these trains in real life, does it mean that such routes should not be built just because someone does not like the train?
For me, Electrostar are a whole era of British railways. These trains deserve love and attention. It was they who took on the biggest part of the routine of daily work and became part of the lives of a large number of people.
The time is not far when a new generation of railway enthusiasts will study the history of these trains and look for the remaining running examples.
Right now, when they are on the move, it is necessary to qualitatively recreate this family of trains in the simulator, so that you do not have to look for museum copies of them later.

 

It’s funny you should raise this point, as I just finished this. As I say in the spiel, this isn’t a criticism of Skyhook as you could take any TSW3 route and it would look like this. It is beyond a joke.

Something is fundamentally wrong with the lighting in this game, it is not right that an old DX9 engine looks better than a game running on DX11/12.

Best viewed in a darker room to pick out the detail, and at the very least I’d recommend watching the start of each ‘chapter’ for a minute or so just to see how poor TSW3 looks by comparison.

 

I don't see whining just a statement that we want variety not different versions of the same train. If every other route was a class 47 in different clothes, would you have the same 'great pleasure'?

Only a handful of routes are filled with these trains, lots of routes they don't run on. They are concentrated on certain routes mainly in the South of England which have been covered in TSW by DTG and their obsession with EMU's. There are plenty of other great trains too and why so many were enthusiastic about MML

 

Strange thing about the Electrostars… The 375’s on SEHS are quite noisy with a bit of traction sound. But the 377’s and 387’s on BML are virtually silent in the cab. In short, they are boring and have been over used in TSW. I’m not a fan of DTG recycling the 323 for MGH, but at least it has a bit of character.

 

And the Inter7City scotrail services!

 

I guess the main issue is also with operators, those who aren't cooperative probably hold alot more of the lines that we as players would prefer to see?

 

The route is definitely not ‘un-playable’. I’m on it now, loving it.

Yes, maybe so, (other than the whole of the south west from Exeter down, is non-electrified by the way ) but why does it all have to be modelled on current era ? I love the 1990s and 1980s rolling stock and era. Would be nice to have a few more DLC set before 2010 etc.

I personally think there should always be at least one brand new piece of rolling stock ( preferably two like GWE, NTP etc ) in every new release. Then if they want to add layers with recycled stock, fine by me. I think Skyhook did a great thing having two diesels in their pack. Both of which an icon in their own right. Both done to a very high standard too.

 

Same here actually Gary, despite my initial scepticism. The 158 is addictive, like a Cadbury Fruit and Nut bar I can't get enough of it. Helps that I've tuned the limited Realtek speaker output a bit and dropped in a bit more bass on my speakers, but it really is most compelling.

 

Funny you say that, I have ‘extra bass;’ headphones, and it is doing a great job. Don’t think I’ve driven anything else for more than 10 mins (other than for beta testing purposes ) in the past month. Really is a sublime unit. ( It has been improved even further since public release, behind the scenes too )

Quality aside, this has been an absolute dream unit to have in the game from day 1. I’ve loved 158s since I was a kid.

 

I re bought the mml just for 158 I'm glad I did its a great train really enjoying driving it obviously there's a few issues with it but Skyhook are working on it look forward to the patch

 

And ? What is your point darling?

 

Sounds like one of our resident mythical creatures* that live under Norwegian bridges has cloned themselves a new account.

*And now I can't get "In The Hall Of The Mountain King" out of my head. Going to be earworming me all afternoon. I'll have to see if there's any thrash metal left in my collection to take it away.

 

I appreciate you sharing this. I have added it to the list. I cannot promise if it is this patch or the next, but we are on the case!

 

Hey Jane, just wondering if we would be able to get a look at the new timetable yet?

 

good thing theres an option for mastery unlocks like that to be turned off