Is There A Reason To Why Dtg Hasn't Made A Reto German Democratic Republic Route

What did you call it, can’t find it at the moment

 

No - stick to UK stock only

 

What's the reason for it we do need German Democratic Republic era to see what was railroading on the opposite side of the Iron Curtain

 

Here they are and what you are looking for are DR 780 785 Green 785 Green DR Cab Car link to them are
https://creatorsclub.dovetailgames.com/profile/driverwoods-1787
I have also made the following DR Baureihe 104-106 V60 Goldbroiler DR Baureihe 280 for DB Baureihe 442. I also made a scenario to which you must use an East German DR Baureihe 243 for Schnellfahrstrecke Köln-Aachen S12/S19 tips & HRR. 182 as DR Red BR282

 

They are from the opposite sides of the Iron Curtain this one is a diesel locomotive that has a nickname of Dicke Babelsbergerin named after it's manufacturer VEB Karl Marx Babelsberg DR Baureihe 118. DB 103 is from the former West Germany the opposite side of the Iron Curtain from East Germany.

 

Maybe it looks similar for those who aren’t familiar with the differences, but the routes would have a very different feel to it.

The way the route is run down, like it hasn’t been cared about for 10 years. The loud noises from the old rolling stock, and just the socialist feeling one could get from it

 

What you are looking at is Deutsche Reichsbahn Rekowagen basically the equivalent of Deutsche Bundesbahn N-Wagen Silberlinge since you are from West Germany American Zone Bayern Baden-Württemberg Hessen Rheinland-Pfalz Bremen. Another route where this can work is Kulmbach Hof Bundesrepublik Deutschland Gutenfürst (German Democratic Republic Deutschen Demokratischen Republik) Reichenbach Werdau Chemnitz. If you look at this website Border Station Bundesrepublik Deutschland Hof the Border stops between former East and West Germany seem to take 30 to 40 minutes both directions. The gameplay would have to resemble something like clinchfield Railroad where you have some Services being done in 4 parts. For West Germany to East Germany Part 1 Drive the service to the West German East German border Part 2 Drop the DBB Lokomotive for a DR East Germany locomotive at the same time leave West German border for East German border stations Part 3 Arrive at East German Border Station where your locomotive gets split for customs search. Part 4 drive to the end station in East Germany from the Border Station.

 

Not really, no. Unless you consider the time period. Both entered service in the mid 1960s.

The BR118 was supposed to be developed in a line of heavy Diesel locomotives ........ until the Big Brother in the East said "Njiet". And instead the BR 120 "Taigatrommel" and the BR132 "Ludmilla had to be purchased .................. by free and spontaneous pressure.

THe BR 118 certainly had potential, but I think a double-engine+hydraulic configuration wouldn´t be that future proof anyway.

 

...last year I had a small exchange with Jasper from Rivet Games about GDR content. He said Rivet would not plan any East German routes or trains because the sales chances or fanbase would be too small. But now it comes: DRA is now one of the most popular (East German) routes in TSW, not only with all Germans but also with our train fans from the UK or even US, as you can hear in the forum. That means if a route is well done, varied and worth seeing, then it doesn't matter where it is located. Nevertheless, greetings to Jasper!

 

If I was the strategic marketing bloke from Rivet, DTG or alikes, I ´d come up with the same assessment. It´s too obvious, population relation between East and West Germany was some what around 1:4, respectively. Already in one of a 3-countries niche, that´s not enough fan base you can build on.

I don´t want to split hair here, but DRA is situated in the East of (nowadays) Germany, rather than in former East Germany (GDR) with completely different rolling stock, signaling, time tables, assets etc. So, I think the question is indeed not "Where" but "When".

 

You don´t know that for sure. I´m listening to this since Eo2021. After more than a year experience with DTG and their notorious .... errrrmm..... economy with the truth, I believe it when I have it downloaded to my SDD and buzzing through the landscapes.

 

Technically the „Halberstädter Mitteleinstiegswagen“ are closer to the n-wagen, they even look nearly identical, but with some noticeable differences

 

Honestly, i would not expect any GDR route. It's really not easy to get the correct information nowadays and getting access to still running trains that not gotten massive changes over the years. It took about 10 years to create the TSC Rübelandbahn (ok, with too much detail, so there could be saved 3 years). And it sold badly, very badly. The only way a GDR route could happen is from a bunch (5-10 people) of enthusiasts that don't want to earn money with it. At least: no way (yet).

 

Well, the Halberstädter Mitteleinstiegswagen still run plenty in Hungary, so that would be the chance to gather sounds

 

So, what you want is, that potential German or UK based developers should reach out to Hungary to gather some wagon sound? I guess you didn't got the idea about running a company in a economical way

 

Yeah, that’s hard to do…

But I go every August to Hungary, in which i could capture some sounds or some small measurements

 

I summarize again: a pure GDR route before 1990 is rather unlikely. Because this country no longer exists, those who have experienced it are more likely to recreate a GDR epoch on their own model railway, since the sales figures for digital GDR content are pretty meager. Thanks again to Maik for the open and quick feedback!
Would still be the option to include former DR wagons in a historical train pack. If, hypothetically, this steam locomotive from the famous poster should come, you can't let it drive with 4th gen Dostos anyway. Only old passenger coaches from former DR or DB stocks would be suitable. You could also think about an old freight wagon mix. Ludmilla will definitely come (without modern Siemens fans, so that you can hear it pretty loud as in GDR times) and including a Trabi as an easteregg would provide a great bonus point.

 

Right, and i selected that variant to eventually bring a DR livery too (no promises, but it was planned all the time). But it would not fit the old times becasue it will still have PZB90 and EBuLa integrated. So it could only represent the one Ludi that got back its old colours today (132 158).

 

I‘m sure there will be several repaints made by the community, that’s already clear

Quick question, is there also going to be rolling stock included with the Ludmilla?

Because I don’t know wether we already have DR freight wagons and it would be great to then have a somewhat accurate train in DR livery

 

Oh i can’t wait to go up the Tharander Rampe at full power with the Ludmilla, just the idea alone sounds amazing!

Even without an official DR build train in DR livery, they at least have us the tool do it ourselves, and that tool is Livery designer. There are already multiple repaints available in CC for us to download, and with that we could make our own timetable for East German routes with trains in DR livery

 

Sorry to sway offtopic a bit, but on topic of BR232 liveries, a long while ago I asked about the chances of seeing a Railion livery, but I can't remember getting a clear answer. We've already got Railion liveries in the game so I hope licensing isn't an issue?

 

As much as anything I suspect it's an era problem. Railion was a thing in Germany for the relatively brief period 2003-2009 (followed by DB Schenker 2009 -2015 and DB Cargo 2016-present).

 

Thanks for the answer, Malik. Speaking of the TSC Rübelandbahn DR BR251 25kv 50hz AC is that locomotive considered as part of the Holzroller family of locomotives which are the 15kv versions DR BR211 & DR BR242?

 

That is the Comecon which the GDR called RGW since Russia and Ukraine which were part of the Soviet Union at the time held the Monopoly on Mainline Diesel-electric locomotives. However the GDR did find the Romanians to make an improvement for the DR BR118 which then became the DR BR119 mid-1970s service entry.

 

Technically, we already have the ability to create an timetable for an East German route with DR rolling stock, all you need is:
-An East German route
-Repaintable br 143 with dostos (also repaintable)
-And the Br 155 from Bremen-Oldenbur

I would suggest Dresden-Chemnitz as the route, because it has the most GDR vibes in my opinion (the station before Dresden Hbf looks quite old and also fitting).
If done about right, it can look like this:

 

I've bought Rübelandbahn and it's amazing how you captured the spirit. Only thing I've changed is the street lamp light colour to that neon orange glow which was present almost everywhere in the GDR - I've seen it in the late 80s when we were allowed to visit our relatives.

 

This route exists in TSC, for anyone interested. Chemnitz (then Karl-Marx-Stadt) to Tharandt iirc. It is called "Projekt Freiberg (Sachs)" and was a freeware project set in the last days of the GDR which took many years of development. Labour of love, not for making money.

I don't think you will see routes like this in TSW for the reasons mentioned above by Maik. Reason to not bet on one horse (TSW) only...

 

I think one hand is enough to count how many times I saw the 250 in that shape. But she sure is a beauty.

 

The possibility of making a diesel legends style add on for an East German route is there, but even that could fail with the fact, that we don’t have any passenger or freight cars which were used by the Deutsche Reichsbahn.

Another thing is, that the DB doesn’t use any DR coaches anymore (although please correct me when i‘m wrong), so we couldn’t even get the stock in traffic red to then repaint them back into DR livery

 

Missing locomotives are 204 232 which were known in Deutsche Reichsbahn DDR Baureihe 110-112 V100 Ost and (German Wikipedia link) DR BR 130-132 & 142 if it arrives for RSN. Since we have four Deutsche Reichsbahn DDR locomotives with 232 but 3 as of right now. For the development team they should be doing Nahverkehr Dresden & Dresden Chemnitz Werdau Tharandter Rampe DR era.

 

Problem with that is that the Dostos we have are all wrong; in addition, the cabs of the 143 and 155 would have to be re-done practically from scratch.

 

So, the one thing that would bring us the nearest to a route set in the GDR, would be a Loco add on which includes a museum Train (probably for Tharander Rampe, due to the railway museum), which includes one loco, maybe one we already got, although slightly worked on, and one or two types of passenger coaches

 

Spot on and which one would those be DR Baureihe 110-112 V100 Ost DR Baureihe 132 Ludmilla DR Baureihe 212/243 and DR Baureihe 250.

 

I recently saw something on Facebook where the said control car is being developed by Train Motion. Unfortunately not for TSW3, but maybe you could contact the developer through DTG.

 

We actually need it in the game however only train simulator classic players get to use it provided you are able to go on to their website. If made in TSW3 this should replace the recycled 767.2 766.2 Cab cars. However only one electric locomotive in game can pull it the DR BR243. Note the 155 DR Baureihe 250 is actually used for two things Städteexpress and freight. From this website DR Baureihe 250 DB Pressnitztalbahn Baureihe 155 is heavily featured on Städteexpress promotional materials. Which means your timetable will look like this Electric freight & Passengers are carried by DR Baureihe 211 242 243 250 since they are all designed to run Freight and passengers remember the 155 has a switch for train Heating. Diesel lines look like this DR Baureihe 120 freight mixed traffic DR Baureihe 110-112 V100 Ost DB Baureihe 204 DR Baureihe 118 DR Baureihe 119 Karpatenschrek U-Boot DR Baureihe 130-132 142 Ludmilla. Dampflok 52.80 23.10 18 201 65.10.

 

Do these old DR dostos cab cars even work with the Gen 4 dostos we have in game rn? Especially if it would be one without slight modernization (visible on the different style of doors)?

 

If you take a short interim balance, the (G)DR thread is getting longer or, in other words, the topic is still interesting. I think that trains from the early 90s or historical liveries for rail tours have the best chance of being implemented. Since there are already two great (eastern) routes with DRA and DCZ, one could research which museum locomotives still make regular rail tour trips there.

On one hand we've the steam option: currently only on a poster, but a BR52 is used from the Chemnitz-Hilbersdorf Railway Museum and would also do well on the Niddertalbahn. Once you have built a fully functional BR52 for TSW, you can derive several versions from it, as seen with the LMS Jubilee.

On the other hand we've the diesel option: First of all, I see the BR204, which not only needs a physics update, but also Livery Designer usability. It would be great to see it driving around with 4-axle reko wagons in bordeaux red with a white stripe. Would be something for Rivet, who can also be involved. They've already created color variants for the Arosa Line and WCL.

Third option (not third party or maybe yes): a new historical train or loco, which can be layerd on other routes too. Suggestions are always welcome!

 

The idea of having the Br 52 as the museum locomotive is a great one, especially since the non existence of over head electric wire in the museums would limit them to either Diesel or steam locomotives.

The Br 52 would also allow for museum trains for nearly every German Route, maybe even for every German Route.

I suggest to add the UIC-y-wagen to this pack, since these types of coaches were used by many countries and would then allow for a lot of livery designer creations. But in my opinion it needs openable windows you can lean out of, this would allow to experience the routes we have in a different way

Another thing I suggest is to leave out an 1st class car, but to include an Dining car, i suggest the REKO Speisewagen. These REKO wagen are shorter and smaller height wise. That would allow for a break in the monotone height of the train, and also another experience we haven’t had yet. But there are two types of liveries which are interesting.
First, the Mitropa livery:

And then there’s also the Städteexpress livery

I know that only one would then be possible, but I can’t decide at the moment

This is only a suggestion of me on the topic of museum trains, I wonder what y‘all are suggesting!

 

Having the rolling stock won't make it a GDR route - almost everything has changed in 33 years. The station looked completely different, signalling, speedsigns, buildings, switches - it is the backdating process which makes the route. It looked nothing like today's Tharandter Rampe.

Some shots of Karl-Marx-Stadt (Chemnitz) station in TSC...

 

Nice pictures! That's what I mean with different BR52 versions. The one from Chemnitz-Hilbersdorf is a DR reconstruction, which would differ from the DB variant on the Niddertalbahn, for example in the shape of the boiler and other additional components. But to be honest, that's not so important, because many museum locomotives can also be visited as guest locomotives. At railway festivals you will always find locomotives that are visiting from other BWs to inspire the fans. So we have to wait and see which BR52 variant will be released first.

The UIC y-wagons are also a great addition and represent old long-distance trains. A Reko Mitropa wagon also would fit in between perfectly. That's what we can expect with a DR pack. If we would get a former DB pack, we would see the already available m-wagons again, but with an older interior.

How about a side by side comparison between a BR52 DB vs. a BR52 DR?

 

I suppose with some more love in an add on like this (maybe with Umbauwagen (for niddertalbahn) ), there could also be west German museal trains, which would be more fitting for routes like München-Augsburg. I don’t know wether the br 52 from this picture I took from a museum train is an east or an west German Br 52, but it had Umbauwagen, and an REKO dining car:

 

Always love the informational pictures you add to the posts.

Although I think the n-wagen we have would definitely not fit with a Br 52. we‘d need only Silberlinge or even Umbauwagen, which fits better with steam engines (in my opinion).
Although DR rolling stock for an add on like this would probably make more sense, since the only railway museums we have in game on German routes are those on East German routes

 

You are spot on and here's the thing with Deutsche Reichsbahn Städteexpress you basically play them like an Intercity services on Deutsche Bundesbahn DBB. For this promotional poster you are looking at DR Baureihe 250 DB BR155. When it comes to East German locomotives with the most of them are designed to do two things at once freight and passengers the exception here is Taigatrommel M62 DR BR120. 155 has train heating equipment for Städteexpress DR-Y Wagen Orange and cream Produktfarben. Speed limit once you are only optimized to do 120 kmh instead of 160-200kmh

 

Why this love affair with the BR 52? It was a quick and dirty rather LOVE wartime locomotive, which DB hated and got rid of as soon as they could.

 

I guess it´s all about "anything for the first german steamer in TSW" rather than historical reliability considerations. She was designed to last 10 years, not more than 50 and, ironically enough, was built in large numbers. She can be found scattered throughout Europe and beyond in countless variants. And since she appears in several so called "hints" throughout the game, the community falls all over it and starts the speculation race. This seems a popular game here, apart from the real game. It doesn´t really matter if it was a desperate design of a crappy war time loco. Her shortcomings wouldn´t be modeled in TSW anyway, wouldn´t they? And the East Germans were quite used to deal with material shortage right until the very end.

My favourite german steam engine would be a DR BR01 or DR BR03, but these were never "hinted" (AFAIK!). If TSG really models the 52 into TSW, it would be a first day purchase for me. As crappy as the original might have been.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRG_Class_01
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRG_Class_03

 

I think that steam locomotives are and will remain a special project. When you think of the UK steam DLCs, you also have to see how the sales figures are. Spirit of Steam was a pioneer of steam engine simulation in TSW. Because of the fact that a second steam route with Peak Forest came along and a steam addon for WCL, one can assume that the demand is right. Of course, an ICE4 or a Class700 would arouse much more interest than a museum steam locomotive, but TSW is also not a mainstream product that only has to deliver bestsellers. It can also devote itself to projects that are important to fans. This may also be the reason why so many DLCs have been released lately, so that there is something for everyone to choose from. Unfortunately, it doesn't banish the danger of too many bugs creeping in, as well as the perspective of landing another hit. I think the biggest pressure for DTG to deliver a hit is always on the big summer release. That's why the focus here will mainly be on modern routes or content. So steam locomotives will not see the TOD4 light of day again until autumn at the earliest, when the steam locomotive romance will have a much greater effect.

So much for the topic of steam! Since feedback is always important for the developers, I would say that the hidden clues have been understood and we look forward to future rail tours with this loco from the poster, even if it will still take a while.

 

What replaced them in West Germany? Because remember some films by the Deutsche Bundesbahn and US Army Europe Bad Hersfeld Fulda Grafenwöhr Baumholder Bad Kreuznach wooden featured a steam locomotive or in some cases an electric locomotive the last coach being a US military caboose. One can find it inside Fort Eustis Museum that was originally used on the Frankfurt and Bremen West Berlin Zoologischer Bahnhof freight duty trains.
Here's a West German Military Train

Back in the 1950s you would have seen this formation inside the GDR DR Dampflok 52 1960s-1976/1977 52.80 Rekolok US military train Berlin-Bremen/Frankfurt.

 

Although I am not very interested in retro routes in general, a GDR-route, at best in the mid 80s, sounds quite interesting even for me.

 

I agree and furthermore we can have more varied German trains. At the same time we can see the difference between West Germany Bundesbahn and Reichsbahn East Germany.

 

That's not a very good supporting arguement.

1. We don't "need" it. You might "want" it but those are very different things.
2. The "seeing what railways on the other side of the Iron Curtain were like" arguement is just not a reason to support developing a route.