Hello all, This thread here is created to capture the attention of others (and DTG)who have purchased these 2 Steam routes but yet they seem to have such little AI or additional services and the majority of the route (on most services) there is barely, if any passing services and it gives the route an unrealistic feel and lack immersion. I see that recently Skyhook have been working hard to increase their timetable, as this was not up to the standard of realism expected for the route they have produced. I also want to speak further about the lack of stock on both routes, like static wagons on the Peak Forest as it looks so quiet and I still can't get my head round why they would leave this out. Finally, I do want others to communicate below your thoughts and please do discuss anything I have missed. I am sure you will all agree that these points need raising, as it has affected other routes (no steam) also.
I have been vocal about the timetable, which is what is preventing me from purchasing this route. I bought SOS expecting it to get post release attention and also new DLC. There is so much scope but it has never materialised. NYT and MML are getting improved timetables after some disattisfaction. I feel both Peak Forest and SOS deserve suitable timetables otherwise what is the point of releasing them in the first place as they are just empty. Peak Forest does have some interesting gameplay of which I cannot see how a passenger service would be detrimental to. Modern routes seem to get a lot more care and attention in this respect, you can't even have the wrong colour ballast on a modern route, however a complete set of missing services is seemingly fine on a historic route. There is also so much scope for DLC, which would give us the sort of variety you would have seen in both 1957 and 1963 on the LMR. Also it would be more sales for DTG of course. So yes, please DTG look at the timetables on both routes and see what you can do, at least with the suitable trains you have in your library. It would be good to make both routes a fitting recreation (as far as possible) of the steam days. Save for preserved railways a simulator is the closest we can get now to recreate the bygone days.
I don’t agree with the ‘Modern routes get more’ tone, they’ve been bastardised at release too, it took weeks for DTG to finally commit to a new timetable for NYT. SHG released one of the worst DLC’s TSW has seen for timetables, and their whole gameplan for that DLC is for it to be a hub which will be centred around other DLC’s. The correlation between Modern = Better gameplay only exists because TSW is only getting modern routes 95% of the time. There are so many DLC’s that have been left in the lurch, and it’s only recently we are getting bigger updates, because we really are at the bottom of the barrel of quality & content. TSW 3’s timetables as a whole are terrible. I’m not going to say this thread is pointless, but something bigger needs to happen than us calling out DTG on a route by route basis, to look at timetables. There has clearly been a significant movement in dev time allotted to timetabling across TSW.
The first thing I'd consider is the reason why it is the way it is, there are two possibilities, either DTG are purposely withholding services and AI traffic because of reasons, or there are actual issues with either the game or the game engine that would impact the performance and stability of the game, and / or the increase in development time that makes it unfeasible. If the answer to the question is the former, then the problem is an easy fix, if it's the latter, than consider what you are actually asking for, and how likely it is that it's going to happen.
Okay fair enough maybe it just appears that way. But look at routes like SEHS, CCS and CCL and indeed I would say most route releases, they all have pretty realistic timetables or even in some cases very realistic. And yes MML and NYT released with inferior timetables but they are being improved, after complaints. If I look at the historic routes then the two steam routes have very inferior timetables, NTP is quite realistic I understand, but needs a revamp especially as there are other trains like the class 31 and 3 car 101 which could realistically layer in but don't. Also there is no AI traffic anywhere. TVL is okay I believe and then you have WCL where they did in all fairness try to make a busy timetable and have ended up making the most fantasitical interpretation of BR in the early 1990's you will ever see. If the equivalent had been done on a modern period route the forums would have been in uproar.
I would say that you absolutely need to have an uproar for Peak Valley - didn’t someone do a timetable comparison and it turned out that they hadn’t even got one third of the IRL one in there? I’m well aware that there are quite a few people who don’t believe in getting all uppity with DTG, but unfortunately it seems the only way to get anything changed. Both SoS & Peak Valley don’t necessarily interest me with their rolling stock, but then neither would BML, however BML makes up for that with its gameplay & that’s really what these steam routes lack.
PFR timetable definitely needs fleshing out, even if that has to come via a paid DLC (Class 104, Ivatt 4MT etc.). At the moment and I may be mistaken, there aren’t that many passenger runs in the timetable that allow you to go end to end Chinley to Ambergate. One came up in Journey Mode last night Jubilee Up express run, start Chinley but terminated Matlock presumably because the real train didn’t stop at Ambergate. Illustrates further the stupidity of not going to Derby and given NYT puts additional stops where trains aren’t booked to call due to short route decisions, why not PFR? The route is beautiful, bar the lighting, and a nice challenge to drive but the OP proposition gets two thumbs up from me.
If it’s a real limitation of the game then fair enough but I don’t believe it is when routes like BML and SEHS exist. I hate the idea of leaving ‘gaps’ in the timetable for future DLC that may or may not come. You should not have to spend ages with an incomplete timetable and then pay on top of your initial £30 for a complete timetable.
There also isn't a single end-to-end freight service with the 8F. I did, however, enjoy dumping my carriages on the mainline and jumping over to the 4F waiting for me at a signal to break them down in Gowhole Down Sidings.
I certainly don't mind paying for realistic DLC but they could put the services in using what they have for those who don't want to purchase the extra DLC.
Posted in another thread, since DTG are giving us very poor timetables then they need to set to work on giving us a timetable editor so we can add services to our hearts desire. As for going back to old timetables to add extra layers, well I thought this was what the preservation crew (or whatever they're called now) were for!?! What's it to be DTG, much improved timetables or a timetable editor?
Too late, Dtg screwed up already to ever convince me for coming back on the boat. Even if they improve now..., the only consistent "quality standard" of them seems to be that paying customers have to beg for good content.
If they offer a scenario planner, which effectively breaks the game as you can have an SD40 go through Bakerloo.. Then why can't they introduce a service planner where we can break the game with lots of services? Seems only fair if they under prepare their timetables modes for us to play on their DLC
Yes totally agree, the only two things stopping me from buying the route is the lacking timetable and the lack of a peak and dmu (101or 104) otherwise I really do want to buy it.
Fully agree with all of this. With the route being good it just needs some more static stock and services in timetable mode. Would love some smaller 4f local stoppers, a 4mt tank engine and a green 101. Now that would be a pack to be proud of!
Exactly my own feeling. If those elements were present, I'd be in like flint. The only thing is: I think those extra locos and timetable should have been in the route from the get-go as part of the $40 package. Given that the 101 and 45 are already in game, I'm not sure how I feel about paying an additional $20 for them if they were offered as a dlc, albeit with a splash of paint. I did purchase DLoGW, but that was a little different, because the original GWE had appropriate stock and an adequate timetable.
A new timetable should be free as the current one is faulty. It should not a paid DLC. A paid DLC should add new content, not just new paint. Let's have a 104 or a 25. Or how about the pioneering LMS diesels 1000/1001 D16/1 class that operated on the route - the first successful main line diesels in the UK? That would be worth buying...
In fairness there would need to be a bit more than a lick of pain as currently we have the modified 45/1 but in a paid pack I would expect a fully reverted 45/0 in the correct condition for the period. Also I would have thought if they were just going to do the 45/0 and 101 it would be more the 5 quid mark like the RHTT. Like you say they should have been included from the get-go really.
Just wanted to chip in to echo what has been said above. I was very tempted to purchase PFR (at full price), but, even though British steam routes are what interest me the most, I've held off after watching videos of timetable mode with empty sidings and hardly any AI services.
Hopefully after the dust has settled over the new version of TSW, or whatever it will be, we will see some plans for PFR as it really is too quiet, yet is a wonderful route. SOS still desparately needs some life too, probably more so than PFR.
We already know that a third party is working on something for Peak Forest, hopefully it won't be long until we find out who exactly which third party it is and what there planning/developing.
If DTG or one of their partners don't do a BR Green pack for Peak Forest, they're leaving money on the table.
I staved off buying Peak Forest, yes I've seen it looks good and the 4F is a tempting proposition but SoS sadly left too much of a bitter taste, along with the many reasons above stated by people I trust. A BR Green pack DLC pack would instantly change that into a must have. Wouldn't take much relative effort either, few tweaks to the locos and a new paint job and bosh, Roberts your mother's brother! Cough Cough Class 37
