Midland Mainline - Skyhook Feedback

Well said, Madam. I am sure the devs are at least as disappointed/angry as we are by the decision of the bean counters to release this before they had finished it.

 

It is hardly a case of shutting debate down but it is a question of what language you use and maybe remember that these are real human beings you are insulting not some faceless corporate body.

You will be moaning if developers don't come on these forums and engage with the "community" so maybe best to make it a more pleasant place to do so.

 

That looks great having worked there nearly ten yeas ago (how time flies) it looks very accurate and sets the scene for the station nicely. I see the car park and bus stop are accurately modeled. Maybe a few too many trees as looks like a mini forest and is more open with grass. But honestly, I am nit picking!


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That looks amazing well done to you all

 

Totally agree with you bud.

 

Your just making words up now. Hahahaha.

I wasnt insulting anyone actually.

 

I am sure you weren't but if I was a developer reading that, that is how I might take it.

 

I´m not really into those modern lookalikes EMU/DMU cracker boxes (awww c´mon, just kidding ) but this starts to look really interesting. Mind you what a good route can do to people: It made *ME* - Yes, *I* - purchasing TSW3 because of the Niddertalbahn route, the latter at full price and without any regrets. So, who knows ...

Way to go, Jane from Skyhook!

 

Just to be clear, I never shut down conversation and comment. I have had some quite robust discussions here and have welcomed them. The feedback has made for a better product.

Calling our team sloppy though is unacceptable language in my eyes when they work very hard and do everything they can. I have never denied issues and we are fixing them as best as we can. I am not being passive-aggressive when I ask people to be civil here. Insulting an entire dev team by calling them sloppy I find uncomfortable and also incorrect.

 

Very well said, I hope you and your team are doing well despite some of the insults that have been unfairly hurled around here.

 

Oh my! That's much more like it - thank you all so much.

 

I think it would be better to stop these parochial quarrels, and return to healthy discussions.
We're lucky to have someone representing a team that created DLC. Let's take advantage of the possible dialogue (for once) with this person and wait for the changes they promise.
Sincerely

 

I am glad you like it! I have more to share shortly from the art team.

 

She did not try to.

There is nothing passive-aggressive about that. These forums get hairy in any discussion that even remotely turns into a debate.

If you cared to take your agenda off and let context guide you to facts, you would realise that you've but 2+1 together and got 4.

User MYG92 simply pointed out the track switch to Skyhook - which is the point of this thread

Spoiler: You won't like this!

Yes, "skyhook bad" and "shut down Criticism" - yet they made a thread dedicated to feedback in terms of what's good and what needs improvement?

- and then user stevenwalker1985 came in and said "Sloppy Workmanship".

Firstly, that was an unnecessary comment. The issue had already been raised and, as it was a minor one, could have been left there.
Secondly, it was a statement that is generally unacceptable. Nobody will take issue if you criticise a product, you bought the product, you have the right to want the best possible version of that, and give feedback.
However, damning the efforts of the developers as "sloppy workmanship" - which is not only an attack on the company but also an attack on individual developers' work ethic, effort levels, and ability - is unacceptable. It helps nobody and does, as Jane rightly says, lead to an uncivil discussion.

It's happened various times recently:
https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/petition-for-suspension-of-dtg-alex.69405/
https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/platforms.70033/
(Ironically, Anonymous was blatantly wrong in this thread, further proving that criticism is no use unless constructive.)

Please keep the anti-capitalist politics out of here. Every time a thread goes political, it goes into the history books as a locked thread. Don't cause it to happen here.

 

"sloppy defending"

You hear the phrase every single Saturday from managers, players and pundits alike so if that's deemed as "insulting" then the world truly has gone bonkers! "overreacted"......now there's a word and a half.

 

Hi Jane. Are we going to get an update about the update for MML at close of play today?

 

Not trying to be pushy here but are we likely to get an update before you go home today Jane?

 

its not pushy at all. I am talking to department heads just as soon as I can as I am a bit swamped currently on various things. So its down really to me grabbing everyone for status. So cannot promise but I would certainly like to update if I can get to speak to all those involved.

 

Brilliant work from you and the team so far Jane I can't wait for the patch to be released

 

A completely different context. Also, just because it happens in the world of football we don't have to do it.

If the likes of Jane "take their ball home" you will be soon questioning why!

 

Alright, I get that you're upset by your team's work being criticised, but saying that the word "sloppy" is "unacceptable language" is a little bit over-the-top, imo.

What, on an internet forum? No way! Joking aside, sure, it was unnecessary. Most posts ultimately are. So I didn't think that was a big deal until Jane decided to specifically call that post out. Because apparently, the CTO arguing with customers about which words are "acceptable" to use when talking about their product on an open forum is a thing now. That just rubbed me the wrong way.

I think you're reading too much into a two-word post here. No way that guy intended to make an attack on all those qualities of all those individual people.

That one I disagree with. Customers voicing dissatisfaction is a very good thing and it helps everyone, as it makes for a healthier industry. Sure, not everyone writes a carefully considered critique, some just write two words. But I think that's okay

..oh, and to make this post not just random waffling, here's what I see on the new screenshot vs. the photo of the real building. The lampposts are too tall and they are in the wrong spots. There are trees where there shouldn't be trees and none where there should. The bicycle parking spot isn't present on the photo. The roundabout shouldn't have grass in the middle of it. The roundabout's layout itself is wrong, with the triangle containing a lamppost missing (the one just to the right of the photo's centre). And finally, the texturing and modelling of the building with the clock tower is quite barebones, and the colors are wrong. I could list out particulars, but frankly, anyone with eyes can see that the actual building doesn't just have a flat facade consisting entirely of monotonous orange brickwork and som windows.

 

Your funny. I understand your fixing the issues, but from what i have seen am glad i didnt buy it. Hence i said sloppy. I know they work there bums off, i aint denying that all, but still

 

Just a quick update.
We currently have 622 services, split between AI and driveable. Usual disclaimer, these numbers can change. We are currently somewhere close to 3x as many driveable services as previously.

I am seeing well in excess of over 100 reported bugs/issues addressed. This does not include new content.

There are over 50 updates to traction both in terms of issues and enhancing realism in various areas. (separate to the 100 items above)

I don't have numbers but there are a considerable number of new buildings, bespoke bridges etc. I will continue to share images etc.

The team are still working fulltime on this so numbers are likely to rise as I type.

Just a quick weekend update. Have a great weekend everyone!
Jane

 

Context makes it unacceptable.

Only if they voice dissatisfaction with the product. The phrase they used to voice said dissatisfaction very literally aims at the people who made the product, not the product itself. (The word choice of "Sloppy Workmanship" is the issue.)

The equivalent in this context is a "sloppily-made DLC", not "Sloppy Workmanship"

Beyond that, there is a huge difference between Football and Game Development.

 

Aren't both these phrases referring to the end product, not to the people who made it? It's "sloppy workmanship," not "sloppy workmen."

Spoiler

Or am I having an ESL moment?

Edit: I looked it up and it can actually refer to both. So I'm going to be generous and assume there was no attack on the people, but rather, an opinion about the condition of the DLC itself.

And again, back on topic: great to see the timetable being expanded. As for the unique assets, I find them to be near the top of the list of things which make a route great. It's not necessarily something that everyone consciously notices, but make no mistake, if there aren't enough unique assets, the route starts to look bland and same-y, even if it's hard to put a finger on why. Not just people local to the route care about unique assets, too. Having lots of them helps with immersion, even if a player hasn't ever been to the route IRL.

 

Everyone should cut the spam posting, petty arguments and lengthy explanations of why common decency shouldn’t be taken for granted and what words mean, and let this thread return to talk only of the improvements that are needed or are being made to the route. Let Jane do her job and hopefully everybody will be happy with the outcomes of this very useful discussion.

 

Workmanship really implies the people who make it and their application to the task.

 

I totally agree with this.
It doesn't take long for threads like this to get off topic and get into a slanging match.

 

Guys, can we keep the arguments and off-topic discussion out of this thread please?

I don’t know about you but I’d actually like to see some MML discussion and updates as opposed to people squabbling over what they think is right and what is wrong.

Share your thoughts via DMs, not on a public thread.

 

I'm looking forward to the updated timetable containing more freight workings and I will be a happy bunny.

 

Just one thought on what is going on above re 'sloppy'. Take time to consider how many details like that missing switch machine that started this off are present in a dlc. That switch was looked at by at least 100 pairs of eyes from the developers, to the Alpha testers then Beta testers and not one of them seemed to notice it was missing. Some of you on here I know are familiar to the work of "Mr. Murphy" and his laws. How many of you have spent hours proof reading a document and missed some glaring mistake which was caught later by someone else. Did that person call you 'sloppy'. Just for consideration.

 

the whole psychology of the eyes seeing what they expect to see in play I think. Its why I appreciate all the fresh pairs of eyes here as it has helped enormously.

 

to add to that, I did a game called Alien Vs Predator for Atari many moons ago and thought I had spotted everything in my code, only to have a reviewer immediately spot the Alien Queen could sometimes leave her den by accident. I played for thousands of hours testing my own gameplay code only to never see it (or my eyes may have missed it), regardless of all the test teams etc and what they saw too. I can say the same for various bugs over my 40 year career in this business. It is not just Mr Murphy but his entire family, ancestors and neighbours like to come out to play.

 

This is great stuff. I can't wait for this to come out and it will be two purchases Xbox X and PC steam

 

I must say I am looking forward to this patch almost as much as I was looking forward to the route itself as it is looking spectacular.
I think I tried to ask this before but the moderation system thing on the forum didn't like it so I will try again: has the GCR bridge over the MML been remodelled to look more like the real thing as the rest of Loughborough is now looking lovely?

 

You spotted The Legend ! And thanks for the safety valve racket reducer for the 4F. Much appreciated.

 

I will ask for you and report back Monday

 

Has that building had a lighting bake yet? It doesn’t seem to sit in it’s surroundings, being much brighter than everything else around it.

 

I cannot take even slight credit for the 4F as that was Dovetail with their pack. I do love the 4F though and will occupy much of my weekend.

Legend = old?

 

correct yep, it hasn't been blended fully yet. I just wanted people to see progress.

 

Is the missing track switch been notified as well ?

 

Just checking A few slipped through the net on Peak Forrest so they’re springing out at me today!

 

are you enjoying peak Forest? DTG kindly gave me an early copy and I have been hooked for over a week.

Yes please always check with me if you spot things! I appreciate it very much as you guys have caught some stuff for us.

 

yes, thank you. Really appreciated and added to the list.

 

I would never have considered buying it but I liked the look of the detail that appeared to have gone into (you probably guessed I’m all about the detail!) so got it this morning. I’m happy to say I’m really enjoying it, and barring a few things it’s as good as I hoped it would be. The scenery is some of the best we’ve seen I think.

 

Thanks Jane, enjoy the weekend!

 

Me reading everything the Skyhook team have got planned for MML. I can't wait.

 

Loving all the custom made assets as well as the ever increasing amount of services being added to the timetable.

This route has one of the best night lighting drives as well - plenty of ambient lighting along the route

 

Do you really think? I have to disagree with that, it doesn’t stack up at all well against the TSC version.

 

I believe that he's comparing it to other TSW routes, generally.