The (1st) Just Trains Route: Preston - Blackpool And Omskirk

Not sure how frequent the 142's were to BPN though. ISTR the services from Man Picc being 150/1's? The South branch probably 142's though.

 

Maybe a 150/1 could be some future DLC. I am sure first generation DMU's would have still put in appearences too in this period, the Manchester area was the last to hold on to them (save for the Chiltern bubble cars).

 

Very frequent, Sprinters and Pacers pretty much covered everything in Blackpool area once in traffic.

 

I was watching a Driver's eye view video by PTGRail of the Blackpool North to Preston line which is pre-electrification and at around 16 minutes in I saw what bears a striking resemblance to the teaser image (note the power lines directly above the crossing)


Here's the original teaser image for comparison


This is between Poulton-le-Fylde and Kirkham & Wesham

Thoughts?

 

Yes looks very similar and of course that route was developed by two of JT developers.

 

I think many would be surprised if its not Blackpool. Leaks, clues and descriptions all add up. Wherry Lines had no freight anyhow. Blackpool could look great in TSW3 at night with the Tower lit up.

 

Quite possible, and agreed, makes sense as Tom made the route in TSC. However, my gut feeling is still the Wherry Lines. Either way, it's a great teaser shot, especially with those signals in the background - does the classic Blackpool route have those semaphores in the photo I wonder?

Bring on more teasers!

 

Blackpool does sound really interesting with seasonal services and freight, and the long awaited pacer of course. If it's a nice bland of seasonal long distance services, local trains with the pacers and some semi-local loco hauled trains aswell as freight back in the BR days I'm totally sold.

What freight could (or other interesting services) could one expect on such a route?

 

It is a lovely shot, very excited for the route whereever it is, a) another BR period route as DTG seemed to have ruled those out for now and b) a Just Trains route, exciting to see the first route from a new to TSW developer, especially considering the quality of their recent TSC content.

If it is a Pacer being developed which seems likely from JT's hints that wouldn't really fit in with the Wherry lines. Of course it could be a route no one has thought of.

 

It’s the Blackpool route. I thought that once we had found out that it wasn’t DTG’s latest route that JT were the only other developer in a position to have a named in-progress route on the leaked file page. Everything else that has been spoken about has just been confirming that, right back from when they were first talking about a seasonal timetable. I’m a bit confused as to why some people are still suggesting it could be anywhere else as it is pretty much obvious now.

 

I think it is pretty clear, I thought this was the JT route as soon as the Blackpool route leak happened. However you can never be 100%.

To quote Arthur Conan Doyle "There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact."

 

Indeed, as much as I want it to be Wherry, I have to concur, having seen that latest comparison shot it's definitely the Fylde Lines. Put it this way, if I was on a jury the evidence would be sufficient to convict! Just remains to be seen exactly what we are getting for the 40 or so route miles, in addition to the North, South and presumably Fleetwood branch.

Edit:
Looking at the mileages from an old GBTT it doesn't quite add up.
Preston to Blackpool North = 17.5 miles.
Kirkham to Blackpool South = 12.25 miles.
That only makes 29.75 miles, though the Thornton/Fleetwood branch would add 3 or 4.
Manchester Victoria to Blackpool North is too long at 48.25 miles which excludes the South line. Bolton to Blackpool North would be around 37 miles, again a bit on the short side from the stated mileage but if you add the South a tad too long. And Bolton would be nearly, if not quite, as bad as finishing at Chinley on PFR.

I dunno.

Maybe it's Preston to the two Blackpools plus the tramway now that would come out at around 42 miles (+ 3 miles for the Fleetwood branch).

Can someone from Just Trains please put us out of our anxiety!

 

Ah, didn't hear about the Pacer (I've been out of the loop a bit), so not Norfolk then!

 

If it's 46 or so miles as indicated, this would fit with Blackburn at the other end. Would make sense as many local services continued in this direction to Colne, not to mention summer traffic from Leeds via Hebden Bridge etc

 

Hopefully they won't leave Preston devoid of AI but we don't have any early AC stuff yet....

 

I hadn't seen it either, it was in the blurb on the roadmap, the one part I must have skimmed over.

 

I wondered if it could be Blackpool North to Colne but the leaked information is specifically Preston to Blackpool unless things changed after that. The Blackpool South branch seems to be just a train shuttling back and forth on an hourly service but I guess would make it a nice little network.

 

The Epic leak didn't change - but remember that Midland Main Line was LD(MML) in the leak but we ended up with Nottingham too.

My point really is only that the name of the leaked package doesn't necessarily indicate the confines of the layout. Could have been a bit awkward calling the package BlkpoolBlkburn, or maybe the eastern scope of the route wasn't fully nailed on when it was first put together - the leak was some time ago and this route has clearly been in development for ages.

 

47's on parcels? I know HST's ran there in the 90's/00's but did they in the 80's? An 08 would be prototypical too. Also 47 on Thunderbird duties. 150's, 20's, 31's and 37's too. There's plenty in game now that could be used at Preston to make it feel less empty.

 

There's always the Pleasure Beach Express...

 

I'm sure if the route mileage is added up for preston to Blackpool Sth 7 miles, Nth 15 miles and the Fleetwood line 7 miles that it only comes to about 29 miles? So we're missing about 15 miles? Preston to Blackburn is about 9 miles, the obvious add on is Preston to Ormskirk which is 15 miles, the trains ran from Ormskirk to Blackpool South during that time period. Interesting to guess

 

Edited the OP to just hone in on Preston - Blackpool and Wherry Lines, I think that appears to be a safe assumption.

Colne - Blackpool North clocks in at 46 Miles, although I feel like that's probably a bit more unlikely, as it would exclude Blackpool South...

 

Swap out regional Railways and sectors for BR Blue.

 

Just watched PTGRail route learning video on YouTube. Blackpool North to Preston reveals a very similar location to the screenshot a short distance South South East of Poulton Le Fylde Station. For my money, this seems to make Preston to Blackpool branch lines the most convincing candidate.

 

Yes I think it’s just a question now of establishing the extent and what the classic traction layers will be.

 

Blackpool North - Peston is 20min... That's the shortest route in TSW ever I guess

 

IoW is shorter in terms of mileage.

 

Alright so if it's a Pacer, what livery could we expect it in? Regional blue, provincial blue, regional/GMPTE red, grey & white?

 

GMPTE was often seen in the area but the earlier Orange/Brown version.

 

I was pondering that. The 40's were gone by the time the 142's came out, save for the green celebrity one and the four or so allocated to departmental sector for the Crewe remodelling. Maybe the class 45 if it was set pre 1988. The 31 and 47 I suspect and and maybe the class 101 might layer in.

 

As long as they do a WCL type layer where it can be the Pacer or the 101. Then I'll be happy!
I do hope other similar era routes get the pacer layered in for the 101 too. I really want to enjoy Tees Valley and NTP, but I just can't get to grips with the 101's slow response brakes.

 

I think as Bravo2six says, options are the key here. I’m the other way around - I’ve no particular interest in the Pacer, but there’s loads of traction already in the TSW3 library which worked the Blackpool route in the same era as Pacers which I’d love to drive on it. I’m sorry to hear the 40 didn’t overlap with the Pacer, but I’d have thought 45, 47, 101, 31 would all be appropriate. I’m unsure whether 20s made it to Blackpool during that era?

 

It is called vacuum brakes.

 

Regional Railways didn't exist prior to 1991. It was Provincial sector prior to that. Pacers were blue, chocolate and cream or GM Orange. If the WCL sprinter layers in and its before 1991 the livery is incorrect. All 47s and 45/1s had high intensity headlights after mid 80s. Unrefurbished 31s were getting very uncommon late 80s onwards. Lots of possible traction but how accurate it will be?

Yes but not frequently. They didn't do a lot of passnger work in North West. Lostock turnbacks and Stoke Llandudno spring to mind. Blackpool post 85 was 31s, 37s, 47s mainly.

 

Getting a sense of deja vu this will be a bit of a WCL style fudge as regards era. As I intimated earlier in the thread, you can’t really go for true classic diesels if you are setting the route in the post Pacer/Sprinter era. Class 31’s and 37’s on 4 coach trains will still be great but not much of a driving challenge along the Fylde Peninsula flats. If they had gone for late 70’s that would have made more sense and given us a Class 104 to boot.

 

I am glad JT have gone for a BR period route especially knowing the detail that will be in it and the quality their work.

However, I do hope they do deliver on a realistic period experience. I have seen the detail they go for in TSC and they do seem to like to make period scenarios for that sim which are realistic.

Any year from the Pacers introduction to the early 90's will fit with (presumably) a 142 in original condition, I hope the 31 does layer in and I suspect the 47, wonder if 45's made it to Blackpool in their final years. I will be interesting to see the scope of the route if the loco hauled trains are only Preston to Blackpool it isn't a hugely long or challenging run.

The 142 could layer in on TVL although Heaton had mostly 143's and I think the first 142's they got were ex Cornwall Skippers in chocolate and cream. But that wouldn't be a big deal.

The Pacers had gone from Cornwall by the time the route is set and didn't return for a few years. Although class 40's were never there and 45's long gone so realism isn't a barrier for that route. The 150 in WCL is in a livery which they didn't really carry in any great numbers until around 1995.

I too hope this route won't be a WCL style fudge though. Everytime I play WCL, which is rare at the moment I find myself having to cut and paste pak files to make the experience vaguely realistic.

 

Regarding the 20s - occasionally is good enough for me! A summer-dated service in the timetable with a pair of 20s on it would be great.

I do take your point regarding high-intensity headlights etc, but have this real nervousness that we’ll get a route which just has a pacer and a re-liveried 150 and when we say “what about 101, 31, 37, 47 etc?” we get a response of “well they’d have needed modifications so we couldn’t include them.”

It’s great if those minor modifications can be made, but I’d far rather have them without the modifications and accept a slight inaccuracy, than not have them at all and be stuck with only a 142 and a 150. This is a great opportunity to utilise some of those locos and the 101 on a new route, and I don’t want it be missed.

 

The worry too is that JT are not averse to just dumping traction on a route, I still remember the Class 166’s on their Edinburgh to Dundee route in Railworks. Though I suspect they have come on a bit since then.

 

That was due to the laudable desire to include scenarios using only base Railworks stock.

 

Or at that point they didn't have anyone to build traction for them!

 

Unless it has changed the code suggested diesel mechanical and diesel electric traction from what I recall. That would suggest no sprinters but there will be loco hauled trains.

Hopefully they will look at what realistically ran on the route. I do think some aircon mark 2's and some blue/grey mark 1's would be good, I have a suspicion we will be stuck with the trans-pennine rolling stock. Hopefully at least no trains without a brake vehicle. I suspect a catering vehicle will be conspicious by its absense again.

Sadly there are too many compromises made on historic routes in my opinion, something similar on a modern route would result in a forum meltdown.

 

Especially consider some of the modern sets like the HST do have a buffet/snack car. Part of the appeal for me is the variety in the historic periods! I'm hoping by them acknowledging the variation on the route they'll be able to get at least some of the way there though

 

I agree I think they will strive to provide variety. Certainly the 47, 31 and 101 would be a good fit. The 37 on freight although I think the WCL version might be a better fit than the TVL one. The 20's, especially reskinned in blue. The 45 depending on when it is set. I think the only unsuitable BR period stock we have in the sim is the class 40. A reskin in the green celebrity D200 would be lovely though if it featured.

 

I do agree especially on the D200. I remember when SEHS came out and everyone was trying to spot the trainbow. Having more of those unique liverys is great imo!

Very interested to see what JT come out with. Hopefully they can as others say avoid a WCL style layers for layers sake.

 

I was going to try and say similar but lcyrrjp has said it better than I think I could. I think routes in the past have missed out due to being held to an unreasonably high degree of accuracy. The 20 in particular is a lovely model and has not had enough use. If it is plausible and not ridiculous, I say let’s have it. I would prefer a route was set in an era rather than a specific year. It would do away with the issue of X didn’t overlap with Y by a few years so it has to be excluded. To me a route with a great 70’s – 80’s feel is much better than a lacklustre exact recreation of 1978

 

It depends how far you go. Class 40's or 45's, or even an all over blue class 47 hauling a brakeless rake of non airconditioned mark 2's in mid 1990's Cornwall is stretching the imagination far too much in my opinion, in fact it makes the route far less realistic.

As you allude to, class 20's hauling a summer Saturday train to Blackpool is not beyond the realms of possibilities even if it didn't happen in real life so yes should be included in my view.

 

Maybe the new thing will be a Blackpool tram to drive along the prom

 

I would pay £30 for a decent Blackpool Tramway as it was pre modernisation and pantograph era. A Balloon car and Twin Car (or Railcoach) would do nicely, then later DLC for Coronations, OMO cars and the illuminations trams.

 

The tramway might not be a long route but it certainly would be time consuming doing the full run from Star Gate to Fleetwood.

Maybe that'll end up on that Tramsim game.

 

Here's where it's Chester to Llandudno. Possibly not suggested yet but milage wise is close and fits the seasonal additionals plus the pacers were rife on the Coast when new.