Rhetorical question in my opinion: >100km of LFR vs. >50km of MML, no matter how much I like diesels this UK route is not a deal for me with this dwarfism in distance. Sorry Skyhook, routes less than 60km are 2nd choice of mine... and BTW, Rivet gave example, it is time to fix old dlcs of yours.
As I keep telling the other half, length isnt everything. Its what you do with it that matters. Take SKW super long, but IMO nothing to keep me going back to it
Correction, Lfr is only 92km. Longer routes or shorter routes doesn't make a route bad. It's not always about the length. I care more about the gameplay.
MML doesn’t seem that short especially doing a 158 run. Like most TSW routes it should have been 20 miles more in one direction or another but is what it is. The 158 and HST are generally superb, unlike the GWE HST you can run with the cab doors open and enjoy that almost Valenta scream.
I must be having a brain fart but what’s LFR again? I can’t think of anything 100km that starts with L… it’s driving me batty. Anyway, MML is sitting pretty right now. Good rolling stock and it’s not really that short in terms of play time, seems to be a good old medium sized run.
Maybe for Britons it is worth more, but for me MML is sale road, the same as gwe, island, Cornwall etc...
Thank you! Tough call between the two. Don’t know if one is objectively better than the other. I run both pretty often but I find that, personally, I’m just more comfortable driving MML stock (I’m more comfortable with the braking, the British safety systems, etc) therefore I do gravitate towards MML more. I’m familiar with PZB/LZB/SIFA but sometimes I just don’t want to deal with them.
I have to say I am having an absolute blast on MML with both the HST and 158, don't have the other route so no idea about it.
One of the best "routes" I played on TSC was the one which was effectively the sidings at a railway scrap and repair factory, becuase there was a load of different stuff to do, loads of areas to explore and it wasn't a case of "go from here to there, stopping twice on the way" The issue with long lines, especially on the UK network is that cities have suburban rail, and long lines have industry and for the railway to "work" for me, all of those need to be in game and working A really line route in TSW is likely to be a line that avoids all of that by being a high speed line, necessarily removed from "hustle and bustle" because that means slowing down So to my mind a 50 mile route with everything working, loads of intersection, different types of driving and hopefully lineside or local industries would have me playing mush more than "drive 150km in one direction" Now that's not saying MML meets this criteria, the fact that I haven't yet seen one freight scenario that uses anything lineside rather than a simple A2B drive says a lot, but it still gives me "more to do" than a longer route I've seen in game to date
Anyway LFR refunded after few runs as well, bad route signalling (HUDless driver) , low quality textures in cabins, broken physic, (esp.103 braking), broken pis, broken passenger system, lightning... All new dlc put into sale waitingroom. I gave them a chance and go back to oldiesbutgoldies.
I like both routes. The scenery of LFR is lovely and the trains enjoyable to drive and to me sound good but I have never heard a real life cab car or 103 and 110. I love the feeling of running along side the river with the road sometimes between you and the closeness of the towns and villages as you run along between the river and the valley. The PIS isn't broken, it isn't there at all which would probably be my main complaint about the route although the signalling isn't working as it should, although I haven't tried it post patch so that might be fixed. MML now it has a better timetable is a lovely route with well modelled trains and good sounds with quite a variety of services although I think it is still lacking freight services. The HST services are still too short though in my opinion.
Length does kind of matter...otherwise why would people be suggesting various extensions in order to make it a longer and more appealing route . I don't know the exact continuous distance you can drive in MML but I did watch TinTin's post-patch video (HST) and all I really saw was a couple of "go via" of around 8-9 miles and that was the journey pretty much complete. The good thing about SKW is that if you do enter into the spirit of what the route is all about then when you finallly do make it to your destination you really do get the feeling you've actually driven a train - and as a result it does feel kind of cool trundling into the station and bringing the train to a standstill. The same philosophy applies when doing an 'all stops' trip up GWE in a 166 with that incredibly tight timetable and arriving at London/Reading on schedule (without slamming the brakes full-on at every station). Both of which are highly relevant so the length of the journey you're undertaking. "Iconic" is great but I'm struggling to see the long term appeal of MML beyond the initial novelty period because you're not going to get the best of any world on 20-odd miles (or whatever it is) of continuous track with a handful of stations so once the novelty period is over it just resorts to being another addon with multiple requests to make it bigger and better. The obvious problem with that being a £30 route becoming a £50+ route (with various addons) in order to make it that worthwhile experience.
Some people want to drive fast trains very fast and very far Others want the railways to be as per real life (so fast, slow, freight, regional...) People don't all want the same thing, but I would think most people agree that if DTG were to make London to Birmingham then all the local trains at the London end should be there, all the local trains at the Birmingham end should be there and so should the regionals in between That's a lot to get working and developed on a single drop long route, and that's why we end up with 50 mile routes with a fair amount "done" or longer routes with little happening. We (as in DTG's customers) dont have access to enough in between to allow for all of it
See your point about the distances between both routes and the HST is a short run imo, but MML with the update now has plenty of extra services to keep you busy. I also like the idea that SHG are going to add more to the route in the future.
Some of the stopping services on MML are nearly an hour, the HST services are over rather quickly. I hope an extension is possible in the future there seems to be a difference of opinion on here whether that is likely or possible. SHG haven't confirmed or denied that one is in their thoughts. Apart from a handful of DLC and opening up some areas like the power station I can't see that there can be that much more to add "game play" wise on the route as it stands.
I think you're slightly missing the point. It's not about length per-se it's about creating an immersive experience within a much more relevant distance. As a route, SKW is effectively 100km+ of tunnels and very samey visuals but more importantly, as a journey it offers a genuine sense of driving a high speed train. GWE is effectively 40-ish miles of dead straight track but as a busy commuter line it works perfectly within that given distance. If you migrate either of those scenarios into MML then sure, you get the opportunity to drive similar trains....but in a neither here nor their environment. I'm not for one second saying MML is a poor route, all I'm saying is that it's something that offers way too little of the route it's trying to reproduce in order to make it a standout product.
WHat would you say is missing from the (very short) route that would make it more immersive in the way you're talking about
I think you’re confusing the route length with the duration of the service here. Believe me, you also get that “wow, I’ve actually driven a train” feeling when you’re pulling into the last stop on Bakerloo line, which is 90% shorter than SKW. I totally get that distance is important for some people, but you’ve also got to accept it isn’t an important factor for others.
All I will say is that TSW is more than capable of 50+ mile routes and MML is more than capable of exploiting that fact. I have my own views on why that didn't happen (and why HST's are currently under-utilised) but due to the current ultra-protective attitude towards Skyhook they will remain just that.....my own views. So we'll leave it at that
Why didn't it happen? This is the first route by a new team who only really got their act together when two new people joined from experienced developers (and possibly DTG took their pressure off about release dates relating to French takeovers) BUT MML is supposed to be part one of a major thing (whatever that turns out to be) and the question is what do YOU think would make it a better "more immersive experience"? Not expecting you to suppose or presuppose what and why on behalf of Skyhook or DTG
Certainly from a UK point of view there is a lack of longer distance "express" routes, both routes featuring HST's feature journeys of less than 30 minutes. There are longer runs on German and US routes with their express trains. For the UK, NTP is possibly the best in that regard, although not high speed, the trans-Pennine loco hauled services were class 1 passenger trains, of course BML as well I suppose. It would be nice to have at least one or two longer UK routes, that is why I hope SHG do manage to somehow extend MML to Sheffield as the HST services are over in a flash (well nearly). Some of my favourite UK routes are the shorter routes where you can drive complete services as a driver would, CCL, IOW, BCC all fit the bill, yes I know they only have one train but to me they are some of the most immersive routes. The new Glossop route will be similar. I would like to see more network routes, maybe with a longer trunk where possible with shorter routes diverging.
Sorry but it doesn't matter what I think, feel or say because in the current climate it will be incorrect. I've already put forward my humble opinion as to why I believe route length is an important factor and acknowledge that everyone's view on this subject will always be dictated by personal taste. All things Skyhook is a different animal though...and I have zero intentions of upsetting the "gang" with any talk of MML other than than the (on point) route length thing.
Life's too short to worry about what random people on an internet forum think of you or your opinions, and reading the MML thread (regardless of how gushing it is), there has been some feedback directly actioned or implemented in the patch, so if your suggestion/feedback is constructive then it can only help to better the product, given the engagement from the developer that is currently ongoing
For those wondering why Linke Rheinstrecke: Mainz - Koblenz is known as LFR: TS2Prototype-WindowsNoEditor-LeftRhine.pak
Considering Cane Creek it is highly doubt if they fix MML to satisfied level, seeing Canecreek in winter or subversive boogie in thier AC4400CW... or screen wipers on HSC
