Midland Mainline - Skyhook Feedback

Thank you and no worries

 

I do have a hope that the power station will be brought online with appropriate freights to bring and remove the coal and fly ash hoppers. This could add a lot of services of the freight variety. Not being from the UK, which way the extensions go is not a matter as much as we do get some so the HST will have more room to stretch its legs. That 158 is a pleasure to drive, it gets back to the old school of having seperate power and brake handles so you have to think about what you are doing, not just move a handle up and down.

 

My favourite experience has been the Hst’s they are one of my favourite trains and great to see them in EmT livery. It terms of future content I really hope class 222 and Sheffield are developed in the future

 

thank you for this Sharon, really appreciated!

Jane

 

I agree that gameplay is the priority, the route needs some MGR and other power station freight activity.

And the 158 dmu is a much better experience than the electro stars that seem to populate every new route these days, though it's still too easy to drive. Give me a first or second generation dmu every time.

Overall, though, this route is a big step up from the recent A-B, one cookie box offerings that I've had to pass up lately.

Unfortunately the next UK route looks like it may be a step backwards.

Got to look forward to the " new " NYT and the next US freight route.

 

One thing that would be good, probably for future routes rather than the current one, would be some areas to explore on foot. It doesn't need to be anything major, but something I notice on a lot of routes is there are often some quite distinctive footbridges that it would be nice to be able to access, or vantage points that are good for screen shotting. I think Peak Forest includes something like this, and of course you can wander around the training centre. If Skyhook was to take on Hope Valley (I can only "Hope" - sorry, I'll see myself out) for example, you could allow the player to explore a small scenic area near a staion, or access a popular spotting, er, spot (I swear that one wasn't a deliberate pun).

 

Had about 5 journeys since the patch dropped and while from a gameplay standpoint the route has much improved, I have had 2 crashes on PS5.

So very sorry to say the route its still not up to scratch at this time

 

Been really enjoying the route, both pre- and post-patch. The 158 is already one of my favorite trains in the game, and the addition of the guard buzzer is really cool- hopefully this can be added to other trains/routes where appropriate (i'm from the US, so my UK operations knowledge is very limited).

Regarding the future of MML, i'm just excited to hear that it HAS a future- personally, i'm a huge fan of networks, so anything approaching what DTG has done around London/SE Region would be great- with it being planned in advance, perhaps it could be even more cohesive and well-crafted. The specific locations for expansion aren't that important from my perspective- though opportunities for layering existing stock should be taken advantage of.

For operations, i'd like to see more freight shunting, and local (drop-off/pick up) freight, if and where that's appropriate.

I'll leave it to those more knowledgeable for DLC ideas.

 

After the update, I gave this route a shot, and it's pretty solid. Definitely a potential there, and would love to see it get more content.

Not sure about the safety systems yet, some of the penalty brakes seem really weird, especially with green lights ahead and no alarms prior. Also noticed one little timetable error - IIRC, only two ROG 37s exist, definitely only two numbers in the game. Which ends up creating duplicates on the white 375 service.


Also, Jane, could you share with DTG the dynamic weather magic that's been done here by your team? It is SO much better than previous routes, not just going "worse-worse-worse-snap-good again". Truly a variety of what can happen to the weather. A dynamic session without a storm is such a lovely change. It also has a lot smoother transitions. The first time I've seen the fog slowly creep in instead of popping up out of nowhere. The settings used here need to be brought back to all other routes. Good job on that one!

 

That's fantastic news, Jane. It'll really help Skyhook routes stand out. There's a big section of the community who have been crying out for this for a long time (our usual hang-out is the pinned "Awesome TSW Service Mode Runs" thread) and I really think that once others experience the variety and interest created by this approach they will love it too.

 

Interesting, loving the non-green runs. Can I ask which signal sequences have been updated, because the only one I've seen is the one into Derby. There are a couple of outstanding ones that haven't been updated in the update that I received (Trent North and South junctions I believe).

 

I struggle a bit to remember how the signal sequences at each location used to be before the update. So far on the updated version my approaches to Derby, Leicester and Nottingham have all had correct signalling sequences. I know Derby used to be wrong. I also remember having an incorrect sequence approaching Nottingham before the update, but I don’t think it happened every time, so I can’t say for certain it’s been fixed.

In terms of the Trent Junctions - I think the 3 corners of the triangle are Trent South Jn (nearest Leicester), Trent East Jn (nearest Nottingham) and Sheet Stores Jn (nearest Derby). I’ve experienced Trent East Jn approached from Nottingham and had a correct signal sequence, but I was held at the red due to a Down HST passing so I don’t know whether I would have had a correct sequence if the route had been clear. Sheet Stores Jn approached from Nottingham also looked correct. I’ve also experienced Sheet Stores Jn (signalled to Leicester) and Trent South Jn approached from Derby, and they seemed correct. Finally, I’ve experienced Sheet Stores Jn (signalled to Nottingham) and Trent East Jn approached from Derby and they seemed correct.

I should say that I don’t have an encyclopaedic knowledge of all the possible signal sequences which actually apply currently at all of these locations, so I’m accepting any sequence which COULD be correct (in the sense that it would be compliant with the regulations) as being correct.

 

HI Jane,
Just so you are aware, it's not only the 6M93 serice that doesn't appear when you spawn in to timetable mode on foot. From what I can gather, none of the freight services appear when spawning in on foot. Hope this helps narrowing the issue down.

 

A quick bug report: uninitiated emergency brake application at Mountsorrel on the 1757 HST from Leicester to Derby. Speed was 93mph against line speed of 110mph. Power and brake handles were in the off position (coasting).

The TPWS Brake Demand light did not illuminate and the location is not on approach to any speed restriction. However, the brake released after the train was stationary for 1 minute which is behaviour consistent with a TPWS brake activation.

 

Note: My "like" here is for JD removing the troll's account

 

Hello Jane just want to say what a fantastic update we'll done. Would you pls sort 158 diesel smoke pls for me I love seeing the smoke adds the immersion for me. Thanks again Jane you and your team done amazing job I play game on ps5.

 

Thanks. For Trent East junction I have a double yellow followed by single yellow with feather for the 80 to 30 turnout there, I definitely think it should be more restrictive as it doesn't give the driver enough time to decelerate for the junction. Same goes for Trent South (high speed to a 40 turnout), in my build anyway. Maybe should be release from red or even flashing yellows.

 

158s don't produce much clag. Here's a video I took yesterday of one at Nottingham.

 

this is also really useful for the team, thank you Marc. All reference is always appreciated.

 

Thank you Stewart, this info is really helpful. Many thanks

Jane

 

Hi Jane

do you know if it'd be possible to make the aws sound audible on class 158 when using external cameras on consoles (ps4,ps5, xbox) please?

Also sorry if that's already been answered and gotten lost in the forum somewhere!

Also to add to some previous comments about brake demands when on the fast line northbound near mountsorrel, i think it's because you pass over an aws ramp on approach to the signal ahead (green) which is all good, then very shortly after passing the signal there's another aws ramp that is linked to the signal on the same line but for southbound running (opposite direction), and this is always on red. It seems that the aws ramp triggers the brake demand thinking you are about to pass the red signal on the same line but heading south towards leicester, when obviously that signal doesn't come into play as you're driving north towards derby/nottingham. That ramp should only trigger using that line (which is used by all hst's heading north) if heading south, which would in reality be never.

Katia

 

I have seen the posts about the PS5 getting crashes post patch 1, but on PC I am seeing an increase in frame rate since the patch. I run a high end gaming machine with all settings at ultra or high, whichever is allowed, and in 4k.

 

Hopefully also the heavy stuttering around Long Eaton and Ratcliffe power plant will be fixed soon on Xbox. Personally it's quite immersion-breaker. As I said, it's a shame because in general it's a good route. Not perfect for sure, but definitely good

 

Someone mentioned that dynamic weather seems better behaved in MML, so I left it on when I ran my last timetable service and the weather begun as clear and remained so for the entire run, which was an end to end. Now will have to do a few more services to see what happens.

 

For me, its the guard feature. Such a fantastic addition. That alone has made MML my fave route, and the 158 my fav train! Well done SHG. MML is a very well done route overall!

 

Further on looking at this we need more pathways from Beeston Yard to Toton, Leicester or Derby and vice versa please for scenario Creator.

Hentis

 

You are correct. I'm not a signalling professional so stand to be corrected on the details, but here is how I understand junction signalling:

Method 1 - Unrestricted Aspect Sequence (greens all the way, up to and including the junction indicator) - can only be used if the speed for the diverging route is no more than 10mph lower than the speed for the main route.

Method 2 - Flashing aspects - If the permissible speed approaching the junction is 80-125mph, the speed on the diverging route must be 40mph or greater to enable use of flashing aspects. If the permissible speed approaching the junction is 40-75mph, the speed on the diverging route must be 25mph or greater to enable use of flashing aspects.

Method 3 - Approach Control from Red (the junction signal stays red until the train is approaching it at slow speed) - used when the speed of the diverging route in comparison to the main route means the above methods are not permitted.

Method 4 - Approach Control from Single Yellow - used 'by exception' and has a number of requirements including that the highest permissible speed for any route at the junction is 60mph or less, and the difference in speed between the diverging route and the main route is greater than 10mph and not more than 30mph.

In all cases the process for deciding the method to be used is more complex than described here, and includes a number of factors, but these are the speed-related stipulations.

 

I have no personal connection to the MML route as a whole although in a way I wish I did. I’ve been really enjoying both the 158 and the HST, but the 158 is something special. The physics and the sounds and now the benefit of the guard feature make it an absolute pleasure to drive - particularly the Derby to Nottingham runs which let you get to 90.
If I may I too would add my voice to those asking for more freight content, both locos and rolling stock. We desperately need more variation, just so we can have something resembling the selection you get with the German routes.

 

Oh no, not again! Moderators pls?

 

This route is still far from release quality post patch. Numerous crashes on PS5 both pre and post patch.

Quick question. Whenever I have a crash I send a clip to Sony with a video. Do developers actually get these?

I played the London to Derby service (part 1) and (part 2). It’s an evening service (can’t remember head code). It ALWAYS crashes outside Nottingham. Did this pre patch. Sent in a video. Tried again last night and it’s still crashing and there’s plenty of posts in this thread of PS5 crashes.

I love the route, I can see the hard work being put in, but it’s not ready for release and still looks some way off.

Never had crashes on any of my other routes.

Please have a look at this service as it’s a one off going via Nottingham to Derby in evening sunset. The lighting looks great going from light to dark but it doesn’t work.

It’s an HST service. I’m not near my PS5 so can’t give the service number. You get a red signal just outside Nottingham and it crashes as you approach.

Like I said I can see the hard work being put in and when additional rolling stock and extensions are added it could be the best route on TSW but right now I don’t want to be sat there for 30 mins plus and it crash a few mins before the end of my run. Feels like I’ve wasted my time as I have a small family so getting time to play isn’t easy. Frustrating.

 

East Hull born & bred.
Friday nights round Witham and the old town. Great memories.

 

Yes, this is the sort of basic stuff that should be sorted before other things such as scenery etc, because it lowers the immersion factor, for me anyway. I've only just noticed this myself, as I've only been playing the 158 services which don't use the fast lines at that point. I was doing under 110mph which is the limit at the said location.

There are many other extra AWS pings/warnings in the route which do not correspond to a signal in the trains direction,but most probably are built for the train running in the reverse direction. These have not yet been sorted.

I have a feeling that it's v difficult to resolve once placed in the TSW editor otherwise surely this would have been a priority. However we are waiting for a patch for the patch, but no sign as of yet.

 

They've said previously that signalling is one of the hardest parts of a route to do, mainly because of all the parts that interact and have to be working, so I agree with you

 

signalling is a nightmare. We can do fixes (and we are) but it is VERY slow and laborious and can take hours and hours per fix.

 

So when you start a route sit the people who do signalling down, give them a stern talking ro and a LOT of coffee and make sure it's right in the first place

Wooden seat and a stapler until they get it right type job...

 

I have been very clear patch 1 (even with everything working as it should) does not resolve all signalling issues. I have been honest on that in relation to expectations. We have had people full time on signalling since release fixing issues. It is an enormous amount of work hours, so even though a priority there was not the time to fix every signalling issue. That work continues. Fixing signalling is rather like trying to defuse a timebomb (do I cut the red or blue?) whilst being blindfolded and wearing boxing gloves.

 

I joined the company just before release of MML. However, this was the first ever UK route from the team, so the guys had to learn how to implement UK signalling from scratch at a standing start (and even learn how UK signals work in theory). A lot of lessons were learnt during the process, which will stand the team in good stead going forward with new routes and fixes for this one. A huge learning curve for the team.

Jane

 

Must be a dream to work for you ...

 

Do you know how long we are going to wait for Freight services On the ps5

 

I'm sure you had to fight the UE engine and probably the DTG overlays as well... not sure I've ever seen a vid on how the signalling implementation in TSW works... there was one many moons ago on TSC (by Matt), but not TSW that I know of

 

It is, because you know EXACTLY where I stand, and I am happy to tell you when things are going well or when you're being a muppet (and that's the directors as well).

 

jane-skyhook
RE the scenario "Can't make your mind up" and the missing stop trigger acknowledge at Spondon, maybe the pics below help the devs to identify the root cause. Mind you I´m stopped at Spondon and get these PIS messages:

1. "Welcome to this service to Derby" - hmmmm, sounds about right ...
2. "The next station is Spondon" - nononono, this IS Spondon ...
3. "This is Nottingham" - no way, we left Nottingham quite a while ago ...

Obviously I don´t know if the PIS (if at all) and the scenario script triggers share the same single source of truth, but it sure looks weird enough to be noticed ...

BTW: I´m amazed how clean the trains are on your remote island...

 

Blimey, didn't realise that, doesn't sound good! So I guess once a signal/AWS ramp etc is baked in, it's a nightmare to edit. Hopefully DTG can sort it out to make it easier. Otherwise the signalling has to be spot on from the outset.

 

Amusingly, IRL the CTA trains' automated announcements will do this too when the GPS systems get confused.

 

Hi Jane,

Sorry if this has already been mentioned but passengers still seem to be getting stuck in doorways. A couple here on a HST.

Also I cannot walk from on carriage into another on the HST, there seems to be an invisible wall, again, sorry if this has already been mentioned.

At least I'm able to grab a seat now Haven't checked if I can in the MK2's now, I'll check that later

 

The PIS is all over the place in timetable mode too, I guess this maybe something to do with DTG's source code as none of their PIS work properly in any of their routes either.

 

I echo this, it should say 'terminates here' (without an arrival time), however it shows the destination, which is the station you are currently at. Leicester is an example, when the 158 services terminate.

 

Try closing then re-opening the doors between the carriages. You should then be able to travel between them.
I've read this entire thread over the course of time since it started but I honestly couldn't tell you if this has been raised or not.
Gets a +1 as an issue from me, though. (PC, Steam)

 

hey gang,

Was away from my machine most of today (the busy life I lead with dev teams ). I am going through all of the above issues now and logging with the team. Also asking info on updates for all of you.

all the best
Jane

 

The PIS isn't our code, but we are talking with DTG on potential updates to it.