Longer Routes Or Route Extensions

The thing is long routes aren’t that bad, but the save game needs to work. And I’ve seen a lot of people complain about route length being too short

 

That depends on how you play it - on passenger routes I can leave the train at any station, and continue by spawning at that station on foot just before departure, continuing the run if I feel like, as I'm in for the driving experience and can't be bothered with meaningless scores or numbers. That's what I enjoy in Zusi, it's just about the operational and driving simulation and things work exactly like in the real world, even random factors (delayed trains) and no arcade elements - don't get me wrong, I understand many players like that and need to be told that they've done a good job using medals.

If scores and completion statistics are important for you, then of course you need a working savegame.

 

Oh I definitely agree, what I don’t understand is a lot of the community complain about routes in TSW being too short, but DTG believes that players don’t like long runs, and when I say long runs I mean 2hr max runs. I can understand more than 2hours being too long

 

I do like long routes, because I've played earlier simulators and see how content just gets shorter and shorter because of commercial pressure, licensing bs and no community to add routes to the pool because there's no editor, or DTG thinks it's so complicated we wouldn't understand how to use it. See what's wrong here? And you can still have short services or scenarios on long routes.

I've been with TSW right from the start, since the CSX Heavy Haul Beta. Advertised as being "the future of Train Simulation", I was quite happy with SPG and the interactive SD40-2 and AC4400. Though DTG typical issues with brakes were already there.

Then came Great Western Express. Having played that route in TSC (Paddington to Oxford, with workshop extension to Swindon and BR Blue era rework), that was my first disappointment with TSW. Route ending at Reading? Why?

A route like TSC's Stevens Pass for example offers gorgeous and ever changing scenery, and scenarios can be split into multiple parts. After a 4 hour run to the west coast, you really feel you've been there and get a sense of the location. I just love starting out in the smooth hills at Wenatchee, seeing the mountains far in the distance, awaiting the climb, canyons, rivers, then after going downhill again carefully the land flattens, the coast comes near, industries and yards, Everett! And then a small delivery up through the forest to the Boeing plant. It's just gorgeous. This will never come to TSW, that's for sure if you can add 1 and 1. Different target audience, and we have to accept what DTG offers us - because for TSW, there's not much choice. Eat what you get.

And the coverage of the world's railroads with some routes being merged in TSC workshop is just much bigger than having just small cluttered sections of railroads in the game.

For me, 13 miles is nothing more than what I would presume to be a "free demo" route. The full iconic Woodhead line for TSW would have been an instant buy for me. Glossop - never. And as DTG have explicitely ruled out extensions, you know the full line will likely never see the light of day.

Don't get me wrong, I accept that many have a different opinion. We can still choose our game.

 

I voted extensions, the technical difficulties are for the devs to figure out. Building it from the start to be modular would have been ideal, but that ship has sailed...

I like networks, and even with just existing content in game we have opportunties for networks in:

NYC (LIRR, Harlem, NY-trenton)
London (SEHS, ECW, BML, Bakerloo, GWE)
Midlands (BCC, MML, Glossop)
Scotland (E-G, Cathcart)

Germany (all of it- i kid, but not really exaggerating that much tbh).

I know there are different eras involved in some cases, but i'd definitely pay good money to see any or all of these extended/linked up.

 

Routes like the bml and sehs are perfect lengths any like that in the future would be good although some people probably prefer shorter routes

 

Very good point, I just don’t know I don’t get as much enjoyment running a 20 mile route, compared to a 180 mile route, for example on TSC, I used to drive London - Lincoln, with the busy depots around London, the 125 mph running, the beautiful Lincolnshire countryside, etc. Since I started playing TSW in 2017, I haven’t had that experience yet in TSW, what people don’t understand is that you can still get the shorter experience of course if that’s what you enjoy on a longer route. But I also believe not every route needs to be long, for example take GWE, to really enjoy GWE it’s got to be long because you won’t get anything out of doing London to reading, compared to say London - Bristol TM or London - Cardiff, or the MML, which you would get more fun driving from Leicester - Lincoln or Leicester - Sheffield, compared to Derby and Nottingham, then you have routes like IOW, which are supposed to be short.

 

That’s fine, BML and SEHS’ route length fit the overall criteria, Commuter at best, so being around the 50 mile length makes a lot of sense, compared to GWE being 38 miles

 

I wouldn’t say the ship has sailed, it’s still at the port, but DTG really need to find a way to balance modularity with the route not being repetitive, say for example now, DTG have done a good job releasing a 700, because it opens up the possibility of many routes, take ECML, Midland or even the Southeastern and Southwestern Mainlines, DTG could make 5 DLCs out of one loco release, DTG should also prioritise releasing more loco bundles, take for example now a Sprinter bundle, which includes 4 different classes of sprinters as layers, imagine how that would populate a lot of empty routes, and they need to use their big stations more, places like reading, Manchester, Edinburgh, Birmingham, Derby, Leicester, Glasgow, DTG need to model more routes around those stations, because it builds up a network, and usually they have 10-15 different trains running from those stations, so a route being repetitive is extremely unlikely, as you can get about 10-15 different destinations from those stations

 

Using words like "need to ", "should"... will probably end up in a disappointment for you. This applies not only to TSW, but to life itself.

Though DTG have stated there'll be no extensions you're still hoping for that? That wasn't a "Maybe...", but a clear "No." on that stream with Sam I remember.

Or is it in hope they'll see this poll and say, "Hey let's do it. Give them what they want."? Wouldn't count on that for my own sake.

 

Both have its advantages and disadvantages. On the one hand we have very long routes like KWG, which are very long but only ICE and freight playable. On the other hand, there are shorter routes like BRO but there are IC sevices as well as freight and commuter services. It also could be extended somehow, but you can't say if and if so, when it will be.

Personally, I prefer shorter routes with lots of different services.

 

All fair points, but i'll just say with being under new ownership, perhaps DTG's thinking has evolved?

I'd also point to comments from Skyhook about MML being a starting point for a bigger network- i'm paraphrasing a bit, but that suggests the issues aren't insurmountable.

There then stands the fact that SEHS 2.0 exists, right now- i don't particularly care how the sausage gets made, but the end result for the player is an extended route. If it can be done once, it can be done again IMO.

 

I have optimism in Train Sim World

 

Can't really answer tbh. It boils down to the route itself. There are some iconic routes that were done at the less advanced times of TSW that I would love to see treated to an expansion and update to do them proper justice. LIRR is a great example there, or GWE. But there are also plenty of totally new routes out there that could be done.

 

I mean if you asked me this 4 years ago when we had less routes, I’d opt for more routes. Long routes, short routes, medium routes, any routes.

But now that I have all these routes, yea sure, I’d love to see them extended. There’s some obvious candidates that could benefit.

I just don’t think extensions are going to happen on a frequent level, for a variety of reasons that have already been discussed. I have no expectations here. Never say never though, I could see it another route getting the SEHS treatment for TSW4 eventually.

Hopefully it’s Peak Forrest extended to somewhere and we get some BR Greeeeen let’s gooooo

 

Another issue is that not many services are more than a hour and a half long. There usually last about an hour or less on average. It sucks when I am doing a re9 service from Aachen to Koln and I can't go further or a service with a 612 but can't go further than Chemitz HBF. If there was a constant working save function, that would be one way to solve this problem. Not everyone wants to do a 20-30 min run

 

2 hour services aren’t necessarily “too long” it’s when you get past 3 that it becomes long, 1 hour 30 to 2 hours can range from a stopper on a line, to a full intercity line. 2 hours IMO is the perfect length for driving, but I can understand people don’t have time, which is why a working save function is needed. Most routes in TSW are an hour max, nothing over 1:15 unless shunting, etc. we need more hour 30, 2 hour, 2 hour 30 runs in TSW

 

Well I most certainly would mind all routes being in the same region, as currently there are no old eastern region routes in game, which just doesn't sit right with me. An example of a modular network which would work and not limit us to one area of the country is building off of the MML route as you will be able to go west, east, south and north. However I wouldn't want every route to be built off of it because different regions are just as important as different eras, and currently dtg are mucking this part up as since TSW 2020 DTG have released only two non modern routes both of which are in the same sort of time period (a thing to note is I am only talking about British routes as I have no knowledge of other countries) with 60 years of British Railway lines being totally ignored, including arguably the most iconic era for British Railways: BR blue (I had to get it in somewhere).

Essentially what I am saying is that extensions and mergers are all well and good but there must also be seperate routes (or networks) in different regions of the country and in different eras to make each release feel fresh and please as many people as possible.

 

That is fair, I agree with that, I can see where you are coming from. DTG can do this with two regions at the same time. I as much as you do would love an eastern region, most of my suggestions are either ECML, or GEML based, but honestly it won’t be nice if we only get one loco, or if it isn’t done properly, which is why I suggested the modular routes, so when these routes get added it is much more interesting

 

I was thinking about the route lengths perhaps we are only having shorter routes because of people on last gen consoles it probably can't handle the bigger routes although I would think alot of people are on series x/s and ps5

 

Last gen consoles have nothing to do with the release of shorter routes

 

Cajon is done well actually. Good detail.

 

No, the pass looks horrible, the ground looks like sand in the Sahara desert, the vegetation is horrible, the rocks are lacking. Hill 582 is missing. Highway 138 has a massive gap in it due to a missing bridge.

 

Have you logged a ticket? Or put in a post in the Technical Reports?

You have valid points, yes. Can you screenshot the missing bridge please?

But I still enjoy it.

Hopefully the route can get a vegetation fix (unsure how it goes with loading systems and performance) that is not going to cause performance issues.

DTG just keep improving stuff.

I like this iteration of Cajon Pass. TSC I can no longer use really. It is just not real for me.