Armstrong Powerhouse Raise Prices 20%

Announced on FB and with the new prices now on their website.

The increases vary depending on product, but generally 20%.

 

Starring the usual suspects.

 

Dear god their prices are already super steep, especially for their wagons and coaches

 

Hope they still have sales, which at 40% off are good.

 

Agreed. With a 40% sale the new prices are still just about stomachable for me. Having said that, inflation shouldn't really affect the software industry that much so a 40 or 50% increase on certain products is way too high.

The number of sales AP have had in the last 12 months coupled with this price increase makes me think they are struggling financially.

Says someone who has a lifetime and unlimited supply of AP's products.

 

I recommended downloading and backing up the latest versions of any products you've bought from them. This is doesn't look like the act of a healthy company.

 

LOL... what's that got to do with anything? I had to same attitude towards AP prior to April this year... my post history will confirm that.

Sure, because they have no expenses... they just sit at computers and press keys, right?

A slight overreaction perhaps

 

As someone who has just recently got into AP products which happily happened to coincide with the last sale. I can’t say I’m unhappy.

Some of the packs I bought have been better than others, but they’ve all really enhanced my enjoyment of my hobby. If anything new comes out then a couple of pounds extra if I want it straight away isn’t going to hurt for a quality product. Otherwise I’ll just be patient and wait for a sale.

Of course we‘d all like things to be cheaper, but that’s not the way things are at the moment sadly.

 

I have proudly never bought anything from AP.

 

Why would that be something to be proud of? Just curious.

 

Ooft, Owning all of their content I feel this really made me feel inferior, how silly and ashamed I feel now.

*Cries in 37 clag*

 

I've proudly never bought anything from Lidl.

 

This logic doesn't really make any sense. The inflationary pressure isn't just on expenses, it's on everything, including the income a product derives that is then spent by the company as they choose as the reward for their work.

Put it this way, if the value of a product remains unchanged but the currency used to purchase it goes down in value, it makes sense that the price needs to go up if the individual selling the product still wants to receive the same value from a sale. What was worth £14.99 5 years ago is simply not worth £14.99 now, regardless of the cost to make it.

You also say 40-50% when the reality is mostly 20-25% with 40% being solely seen at the lower price point of £4.99 to £6.99. Only some wagon packs and wagon sound packs then.

This isn't without precedence. See DTG now charging £29.99 for a TSW release compared to £24.99 a year or two ago.

 

Really? These kind of increases have been seen across the board over the past two years. It's just simple economics if the value of money falls. It just probably seems so drastic to you as AP have done it all at once rather than the constant incremental increases which pass without much notice from other businesses.

What would be the sign of an unhealthy business would be this occurring with inflation running low and no appreciable increase in quality of product being offered.

 

FF..............
Now I'm going to have to shop at Aldi!

Can we stop with all this shaming please?

 

I do not approve of their business practices.

 

I bet you don't buy from Amazon, Microsoft, or any Supermarkets either huh!

How dare these people make money!

 

Frustrating as price increases are fact is that AP like every other business is exposed to inflationary pressures and everyone has a choice whether to buy their products or not. My own view is that AP have transformed TSC and taken it to a different level so I will continue to purchase their products whenever I can.

 

You mean making a product, and asking a price for it? Outrageous!

 

I am referring to such practices as delisting old products.

 

Yeah we know what you're referring to we were just taking the piss.
Why wouldn't AP want their older scenarios to utilise their newer released content?
It's not their problem if you didn't keep a backup of the old scenarios and then went ahead and updated them, it's common knowledge they do this, so if playing the scenarios with the original stock requirements is your priority then keep a backup and switch out the scenarios if you need to update.

Edit: I realised after that I thought you were complaining about the updating of scenarios (tbf it's usually the first thing people go off on one about) I was distracted by something else at the time of posting and didn't realise you were referring to the removal of older products, my bad..

So instead...
refer to Pookeyheads reply below as that sums it up well enough.

 

Yeah, terrible. I mean, if I want to buy a new Ford Sierra Cosworth, I should be able to. How dare they stop making it in 1992.

It's not unusual for manufacturers to delete old products they no longer feel are up to standard. It's not as if those who already own them can't continue to use them. AP aren't obliged to keep selling old stuff because people made scenarios that used them. How exactly do you feel that AP are gaining anything from doing this? You act as if it's a scam to get more money out of you. Wouldn't they make more money by just keeping the product available? Maybe they just don't want to have products that no longer reflect the standards they set themselves. It does beg the question why they keep the 31 though... which is dog poo, but hey ho... their company, their products, and lets be honest, they are doing nothing more than many other companies do - stop making old stuff that isn't really selling any longer. I mean.. take the 142 for example. People complained when it was pulled, but let's be honest, if you hadn't already bought it after all the years it was available, then you probably weren't going to ever buy it. It's like when banks close branches, and people complain, but when asked if they ever used it regularly, they say no. (shrug).

 

Hmm.

Just like the Beeching Act. People did not use the railway, and when it was gone, started complaining.

 

If only Australia had the same conversion rate to UK pounds. Us over here virtually have to pay double.

I only buy stuff from AP on sale - still a little pricey but worth it

 

Exactly. I bet the people who complain about this would object if THEY never received a pay rise, and was forced to earn the same amount as they earned in 2008 (AP haven't had a price increase in 15 years), despite the things they need to buy being more expensive now.

 

I wonder why Just Trains haven't put their prices up? I wonder why ATS only put theirs up by less than 10% and DTG only put their up for future releases starting in November last year. Do they not live in the same world as AP where inflation is 40%?

"AP haven't had a price increase in 15 years". Seriously? No products are left on AP's website from back then. You really think when they released their Class 700 EP last year for example, they thought, hmm, let's price it in line with what prices were back in 2008. Of course they didn't.

Conflict of interest. You can't comment fairly on the price of something you've received for free.

Expenses make up a small fraction of a businesses costs.

But the value of a digital product doesn't remain unchanged. As software gets older it generally reduces in value due to it's age. Look at the amount of DLC on steam that has gone down in price since when it was released. I can't think of a single one that's gone up

DTG is charging £29.99 for new route releases; it hasn't gone back and retrospectively increased the price of it's older products. If AP had done the same, I would have had no complaints.

 

This is quite ridiculous. Pookeyhead has never hidden the fact he gets them free - it’s been brought up a few times. I suspect he‘s paid for a lot of them in the past.

Fact is that when I have been looking to buy something he gave me very detailed information which was absolutely accurate. Not many others were so helpful. Especially those that just told me not to buy it with no reason.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Whether you agree with it or not given the facts available to you is your choice.

 

Not in games, it's not.

It's very simple. Delisting makes them money because it makes people feel like they have to buy it before it's delisted. This is a common sales tactic. I'm sure you don't wonder why companies make things like limited editions.

Yes, because as we all know everyone who plays TSC has been there from the beginning.

 

I sympathise with those saying they shouldn’t withdraw old products. As a recent new purchaser of AP products it is frustrating to see there was a pack for something and I can’t get it. I don’t mind if it’s not top quality compared to recent releases I‘d still like to have it so I can use reskins that are based on it. Seems to me it would be a good source of revenue particularly if discounted.

But regardless of other comments, it happens a lot with other publishers. Microsoft Studios being a big offenders. I‘ve got several games that I can lo longer buy DLC for. For some older consoles, the entire online store has been removed.

So I’m sad I missed out, but it’s not going to stop me enjoying what I can get.

 

You need to stop quoting 40%. Yes, one of the increases, £4.99 to £6.99, is 40% but they are just wagon packs and wagon sound packs which most people don't seem to care much about anyway. If you are to come across as fair minded and reasonable, best to say 20%-25%. Otherwise you are just selectively choosing figures to suit your agenda.

Look at what is in the 700 EP compared to a £4.99 sound pack in 2008. It's fair to say it is by far more than 3 times better than those early sound packs which no-one had any issue paying £4.99 for. In addition, inflation between 2008 & 2022 (the release of the 700EP) means that £4.99 in 2008 was worth £7.18 in 2022. So in fact, in real terms, AP only charged just over double for the 700 EP. Hardly unreasonable in the slightest. If you had actually read their Facebook post, you would understand the logic that prices have only gone up to date due to an increase in quality of the packs. Not inflation.

I struggle to see why the 37 for example shouldn't be worth the same amount as when it was released 4 years(?) ago? It's still the same solid, quality product and by no means looks aged. Inflation like this has never been seen in the era of DLC which might be why the lack of precedence is troubling you.

Well then they will see a reduction in the value they receive from sales if they do not respond to inflation. More fool them.

 

Except 9 times out of 10, AP do just the opposite and remove without warning which rather goes against your greedy narrative that it's to push sales. Maybe it is just as simple as taking pride in what they sell? I sense this would be far too generous an interpretation for your cynical mind.

 

So no game, ever, has ever been deleted? I find that hard to believe. Besides, it's not a game, it's DLC for a game.

The 142 was on sale for YEARS! If you hadn't bought it by the time it was withdrawn, let's be honest, you just didn't want it, and you were not going to rush to buy it just because it was being axed.

Nothing they have ever released is a "limited edition" That implies only a fixed number will be made. It's not even a fixed time of availability. Most of the stuff recently deleted has been sat there for years. There was nothing "limited" about them.

So they are obliged to keep selling everything, forever, just because newcomers may miss them? Like I said. I'd love to buy a brand new Sierra Cosworth... and I think it's outrageous that Ford stopped selling it in 1992... I mean, how dare they? Don't they realise that some people may still want to buy it 30 years later?

If they withdraw something that a scenario needs, just replace it with something else with TSTools, or Locoswap.

 

You need to stop saying this, as it's specious, and childish. I won that competition on March 30th this year. I've been a strong advocate for AP stuff for YEARS before that, and my attitude has not changed one iota. Prior to winning the competition, I had already spent a LOT of money on AP products. Why do I need to declare anything? It's my opinion, and I'm entitled to give it, and if you keep up with this childish nonsense, I will just report you. Grow up.

What about all the stuff I bought prior to winning that competition, can I also not comment fairly on that? Seriously, grow up. You are basically suggesting that I am shilling for AP because I won the competition. Please stop it.

AP can charge what they want. If you don't like it, don't give them any of your money. Sounds to me like you DO want their stuff though, otherwise you wouldn't care what they do. If you do, then realise that £20, which is the average price for their DLC, is not particularly expensive. Two packets of cigarettes. A meal in a restaurant. Thirteen litres of petrol. £20 on something that gives years of pleasure is not particularly expensive. If you disagree, then just don't buy them... and if you have no interest, or wish to buy then, why are you so bothered?

 

Your suspicion is correct. Apparently though, now I've won that competition, the fact that I have previously spend hundreds on their products is meaningless, and I'm just a lying, untrustworthy shill for AP... even though I have criticised some of their products in the past... and even in this very thread
Some people are just jealous. (shrug). You see it other hobbies. Those that can't get the stuff they want, trash it. It makes them feel better.

 

No, it does just the opposite. If they gave warning people on the fence would not have to worry about it being delisted, because they could always buy it when AP gave warning it would soon be delisted. Delisting without warning means that people on the fence are pressured to buy now, since it could be delisted at any time.

In today's modern world of digital distribution, delisting usually only happens if relevant rights expire.

I was using limited editions as an analogy to help you understand the concepts of artifical scarcity and fear of missing out.

The distinction is that a Cosworth is a physical product that has to be manufactured.

 

I best run out and buy 500 bags of Wotsits then. I love those little cheesy puffs... and they could just disappear at any time!!

 

Interesting way of looking at it. I'm sure if AP did give warning you would argue that was them pressuring people into buying unnecessarily when they could just keep it up. Either way, it's of no worry to you as you are "proud" not to have purchased anything from them so perhaps your point of view isn't particularly relevant to them anyway.

 

I don't even understand this argument anyway, as DTG have got rid of DLC off Steam without informing anyone before now, and no one cried like little girls about that. In fact, there was a thread listing all the withdrawn DLC off Steam not long ago, and it's far more than AP have ever deleted.

It's just the same people who moan about AP over and over again. I've no idea what their motivation is, especially when they inform us that they 'proudly' don't buy anything from AP in this instance, or admit that they have only bought a few but don't really rate AP products highly enough to buy any more in others. These people aren't really AP customers anyway, yet they seem far more concerned than those of us that are. They just seem too invested in turning up in all the threads about AP in order to moan about it to be taken seriously IMO. There's an agenda there. When people go out of their way to comment in threads about the price of a product they 'proudly' don't buy.... or more absurdly, the availability of a product they 'proudly' don't buy, then they are here to simply trash AP, no doubt about it. This is the behaviour of someone with an agenda. It's so predictable that it prompts responses like in post #2 in here. The first thing we all think is, "Oh no.... the usual suspects will be here any minute", and sure enough... LOL. You can't have a thread about AP products without at least three of them turning up. I'll not name people, but you all know who they are, not least because two of them are in this thread, and you almost certainly know who the suspiciously absent ones are.
It's becoming a meme in here.
Possible reasons are... Some of the obsessive AP trashers are regulars in the Official Screenshot contest, so there's motivation there... possibly because they would love all the AP goodies, but then making vanilla screenshots becomes far more problematic. Then you have the ones who's post history has a lot of moaning about the price of stuff, so they probably cannot afford all the things they want. Either way.... Moaning about the things you can't have makes you feel better about not having them. It's like the character Les McQueen from League of Gentlemen walking around saying "It's a **** business anyway" when he talks about the music industry he can no longer take part in, but clearly misses a great deal.

That's what I reckon.

 

This discussion about Armstrong Powerhouse is a complete waste of time. Everything is getting more expensive everywhere! I paid double (100% increase) for my holiday flight this year.

 

The cost of running my home (including mortgage) has gone up from £1,100 in 2020 to £1,650 per month. When the fixed term mortgage ends next year it'll be a few quid short of £2000. 90% inflation in 4 years. At the same time my salary has increased by 7% and I'm one of the lucky ones to get increases.

So that's what it's like here in the UK. And if the cost of running a home has doubled then a 40% increase in prices at AP still probably won't increase their profit margin. I'm sure they had to have a long think about this and wouldn't have taken the decision lightly.

The best anyone can hope for is that incomes somehow catch-up with inflation at some point in the next few years. It's not looking good and a lot of smaller businesses are going to fold over the next couple of years. Someone broke Britain.

 

[snivelling adenoidal train spotter voice]
"yeah, but this isn't a real product, and there's no reason to delete it, and they should tell us when they are withdrawing stuff so we get a chance to buy it... no, wait, that creates FOMO.... they should just withdraw it.... no, wait. that does too because we fear it will just disappear... they should just keep everything forever, and never put the price up ever, ever, ever!!!11"
[/snivelling adenoidal train spotter voice]

 

I don't see how this is supposed to be a "gotcha".

There was one big purge back around TS2012's release, and I'm not defending that, but pretty much everything that's been delisted since was due to licensing issues.

 

It isn't...

 

Does it matter when it was, or why? It happens. It doesn't matter that it happened 10 years go... because a licence expired... or because the owner just doesn't want you to have it any more. The result is the same.

Why do you even care? You 'proudly' don't buy their stuff, so you're here just to cause trouble. Shut the door on your way out, there's a good chap.

 

Yes, motives are irrelevant, blah blah blah. I don't agree.

You do understand that I brought delisting up because I was asked why I don't buy AP products?

 

This thread is currently very boring. Might I suggest you agree to disagree and get onto something worth reading?

 

eldomtom2 bart2day
As someone who owns and have bought the entire catalogue of AP products at full price, and have been more than happy to pay whatever the asking price is at full price for their latest releases
My current,state of opinion is :-
Quality costs......... If you can't afford their products then don't buy.
If you want your TSC to look amazing then either pay the price or shut the **** up.

My current household outgoings have increased by probably 60% over the last 24 months
Yes I am having to review my budget every month like all of us.
AP are also going through the same struggles as a business.

Option 1:- Suck up the small increase in price and keep AP going to continue giving TSC outstanding quality DLC
Option 2:- Moan about the price, Make out that AP are the demons of the world for increasing their prices, and glory in them folding as a business.
Option 3:- Carry on as you do by not buying their products, but continue to criticise AP anyway.

May I suggest Option 1 is the way forward?

 

You mean like people moaning about the price of AP products? Seriously, what did you expect to be reading in a threat titled "Armstrong Powerhouse Raise Prices By Up To 40%" that was posted by someone who turns up in every thread about AP to tell us all how expensive and unnecessary they are? Clearly, it will be a thread about the price, and by extension, worth of AP products. Not sure what else you were expecting to see in here if I'm honest.

 

Thank God... someone trustworthy with an opinion... not like that AP shill Pookeyhead, I mean... he only paid for half of the catalogue, so he needs to declare that every time he opens his mouth!!!

For some reason though, we're supposed to pay attention to people who "proudly" don't even own any AP products.