First of all, that discussion ended over a week before you posted. You're a bit late to the party. Second of all, it's speculation. I did not say they are definitely doing a 47 pack. I also did not say they aren't. I was generally talking about what happened with the 55 in that post, anyway. Please stop trying to put words in my mouth here. Thank you.
Let me highlight your OWN comment where you said AP appear to be wanting to compete with Vulcan regarding a class 47. Also i may be a week late to the party unfortunatly like yourself i dont spend 24/7 on forums sorry to say. that is YOUR comment so kindly stop accusing me of "putting words in your mouth"
FFS..... AP have made it very, very clear that they don't do their own modelling, so they are NOT "competing" with anyone who may, or may not be modelling a 47. Just the same people as usual suggesting that AP are somehow working against the 'community'... again... Move along... nothing to see here folks.
What is your issue #390001? I've experienced Cyclone to be very talkative, just sharing his thoughts and experiences, very unselfish, helpful and never attacking anyone - but being constantly pushed into having to justify himself. Just agree to disagree and stop picking on people.
EXACTLY THIS. I see other people backing up the person who feels a need to force me to justify every single word I say, but the quoted post is exactly how to approach this situation. You don't agree, that's fine. Offer your opinion, but leave it at an opinion. This is a discussion forum. We're supposed to have discussions. We are free to discuss our opinions. We will disagree. That's fine too. And that's it. In other words, taking what you read and twisting it to fit your personal narrative about what you want a person to be seen as saying is not appropriate for a discussion forum. That's political behaviour. And that's all I should have to say about that.
Well, there is opinion, and there is fact. Re: AP and the class 47, it's probably best if AP themselves have the last word. "We are trying to hold out or a high quality new build model. However, we do not employ modellers. These are very rare and highly skilled individuals who deserve the right to choose how they spend their time. These kind of packs can only be produced to a high quality by a motivated and passionate individual who feels they have the freedom to spend as much time as they wish to create without arbitrary deadlines which nearly always result in an inferior product. From the outside, it may seem tempting to think we can simply pay someone x amount to produce y product but this simply isn't a sustainable way to operate in this niche market which rightly demands a high level of detail. Such an approach usually sees said individual leave the scene to to 'burn out'. Therefore, all we can do is wait and hope patiently for these individuals to deliver the goods. Some may say, we why don't we create an enhancement pack instead? This would most likely mean a new build project never some to fruition as we would rather be patient and wait for the highest possible quality product than the compromise that an enhancement pack would inevitable be. We want a 47 just as much as you, and or a locomotive of this importance, it deserves to the the best possible pack. Of course, the new build may well not materialise or whatever reason and then we will have to try and work with what is already there for an enhancement pack. We hope that gives a little insight into how we operate and that new-build rolling stock packs are very much based on passionate and motivated people. As a result, packs that may seem obvious for us to release can not simply be dictated into existence. They are something that appear organically as a result of a particular individual's interest and passion. Something which can rarely be forced with the exchange of money like a traditional business." This idea that AP is not working for the "common good" is just silly. Everyone has a right to an opinion, sure, but when opinions fly in the face of fact, then they need to be corrected, otherwise we all end up believing everything we read, like the covid19 vaccines change your DNA, or the Earth is flat, or even U.S Presidents that think wind turbines give you cancer, or that you can cure COVID19 by injecting people with disinfectant . It's our duty to promote fact, and to quell incorrect opinions and while it's your right to say whatever you want, it's mine to challenge it if it's an incorrect assumption... which it was.
To clear up what I mean by the "common good", I was merely referring to cases like the Class 20, the Class 60, and even the JT Voyager (Class 220), where multiple products for the same train exist and people might have one pack or the other. I am merely suggesting that I hope we do not wind up with two competing products that split their use in scenarios and thus require people to choose if they don't want to get both, for instance. "Common good" means one product, and if two companies want to co-produce the product - like the BMG wagon packs, for instance - that would be better than VP and AP having separate 47 packs. To be clear, I'm not saying there ARE two packs in production, and I'm also not saying there aren't. I am just stating an opinion. We'll see what the companies decide to do. Thank you for posting AP's own comments to clarify this a bit, too.
Sorry I had let this drop hit with you reply I will reply further. I did NOT twist anything I quoted YOUR post which uses YOUR words explain to me how that twists your words please. You then start off. T saying you can have an opinion. That’s exactly what I did I had an opinion on YOUR comment and you replied back with a “your late to the party” and a “it is not a speculation” but it was just that hence why I replied. If anyone is twisting anything it’s YOU. You do it all in the time on these forums and various discords.
You said that AP seem to want to compete instead of working for the common good. Yes, that's an opinion... an incorrect one. What you are saying, is you reserve the right to say what you want, regardless of whether it's factually correct or not, and you know what? You do have that right, yes. However, when people correct your mistakes, you can't start complaining and saying things like "You don't agree, that's fine. Offer your opinion, but leave it at an opinion." Not everything is an opinion. Some things are actually fact. If you say something that's incorrect, then people will, and more importantly, should correct you. If I said something incorrect, I would actually want someone to correct me (why would I want to continue believing incorrect information?), and I'm sure if you noticed me saying something incorrect, you'd not hesitate to correct me either. That suggests that if someone has already made a class 20, or is making a class 20, then no one else should, unless they club together for the "common good". You do realise that people who have already invested a great deal of hard work in project may not want to share the rewards for it? Not everyone's motivation for making things is for the 'common good', and that doesn't make them bad people. Often, a bit of healthy competition is actually better for us all. It provides choice, and it raises the bar for everyone, and standards usually go up.
I just got the ap weather pack last week. I telll you it makes a big difference in the way the game looks. But I’m not to sure about this one. What does it really do?
Its a cloud enhancement pack for the new weather enhancement pack which was a new version of the previous weather enhancement pack for the in game weather. Classic AP
What’s next next enhanced tracks for the track pack and new lights for the new signals. I don’t now about this one……
It doesn't actually say that. It says it's a cloud enhancement pack. It may well be a stand alone addon that works without the sky and weather pack. If it's been in development for 6 months, then it was being developed alongside the sky & weather pack. It's probably best to wait and actually see what it is. Whatever it is, it looks awesome. That first shot makes TSW look quite pathetic.
You just can't help yourself can you? Why re-ignite an argument that has already been discussed to death just to have the last word. Am politely asking, will you please just take your petty argument with Cyclone either private or away from this thread. When I get a ping about a thread I am following I expect to see a post relating to An AP WIP, as the thread is titled, not your petty little private squabbles. We all can see from your history you have an issue with everything Cyclone posts. Personal disagreements should be had away from these forum threads. Please just stop this point scoring exercise. neither of you will ever win. Just move on and stop this "having to have the last say" attitude, it is very immature and childish. You are becoming extremely tiresome. I respectfully ask you not to reply to this post as I do not wish to derail the thread yet again. Just please absorb what has been said, reflect and move on. Thank you
It wouldn't take 6 months to just develop a tweak to the WE2 pack so I would hazard a guess that it is a probably a standalone as suggested above. It will look great for screenshots and video production. I just hope that it's a fair price (although it's 6 months work to be paid back) But judging by the new practice of AP banning comments on their FB page and the hostile reception this new pack has received by people who have no interest in buying the product but still believe they have a right to criticise it when the price hasn't even been revealed speaks volumes about the state of this hobby and the 'social' side of the internet at the moment.
So, TSC is getting a Cloud Enhancement pack? Can't help but feel this should be part of the Sky & Weather 2.0 pack. I mean, I bought that pack, it's a nice pack - why aren't the very nice clouds included in this? I mean, I totally rebuilt the MPV at no cost passed onto the community... but then, I'm not relying on TSC $ to survive. Also, turning off comments is a no - no. Whether it's what you want to hear or not, the community have a voice.
My thoughts exactly Dunk! Why did the SWEP not have the best clouds AP could make??? EP for an EP for an existing EP!
Exactly this well said. And the comments turning off and deleting comments has gone on for a long time as well. I also don’t like the way if you leave a review on an AP product it has to be approved by the webmaster reviews should automatically be uploaded without requiring the owner to approve them
I can understand this. There's a lot of people not reading manuals, leaving bad reviews on Steam DLC because they don't know that switching a master key is required for example. Review "Negative. Loco won't move. Got a refund".
You are so true lol. I have 99 percent of AP products bar a few missing wagon packs. Will I buy this new cloud pack I more than likely will as let’s face it AP does totally change the sim. However I don’t like this idea of micro packs at premium prices that appear to be what we are getting now. We have weather pack 1 then weather pack 2 which was a procedure upgrade even for owners of V1 and now this cloud pack which will be interesting on the price front giving aps recent announcement regarding prices. I am waiting for a “grass pack” to appear you just know it will appear now we are getting clouds lol
I’m a bit surprised by this and I wonder how it will work with the Sky & Weather Enhancement Pack 2.0. I thought this would’ve been an update to that pack and I must admit I am surprised and a bit annoyed I’m going to have to purchase another separate pack to make the clouds look better which should’ve been an update to the Sky & Weather Enhancement Pack 2.0 in my opinion because after all it is the SKY & Weather Enhancement Pack 2.0 so like I mentioned it’s a bit annoying to have to buy a separate pack to make clouds look better when the Sky & Weather Enhancement Pack 2.0 should already be doing that… Don’t get me wrong, I think the new clouds look amazing but like I mentioned I am just a bit annoyed that it’s going to be a separate pack that I will have to spend more money on. Also the fact that Armstrong Powerhouse has now turned off comments on their posts says a lot about the reception of this… It was nice to see people asking about certain aspects of an upcoming pack and Armstrong Powerhouse answering that question that I am sure many of us were wondering at that point but if what Armstrong Powerhouse said was true about people being rude to other people in the comment section then maybe it’s for a good reason.
I suppose another way to look at it is we are now on a new core of TSC something new to the sim and AP perhaps have found that the new core allows them to push TSC even further. Could this open up a whole new chance of development. The DTG team done a fantastic job taking the old core sim and enhancing it to what we have now and perhaps AP and other developers will take that oportunity to push it further like they did with the old core. I guess time will tell.
Yep, I had a look at what was going on over there and quite a baffling war of drama was taking place. Really shows how vastly different our sides of the forums are. Anyway I've been able to have some further thought on this Cloud Enhancement Pack. I still think the choice to make it separate was ridiculous. I understand after 6 months of hard work they would want money for it but it just doesn't make sense to make clouds, a part of the sky, a separate pack from the SKY & Weather Enhancement Pack. If they made it an update for that pack, people would be happy and people who strayed away from the pack would now feel more justified in purchasing it with a fantastic update to the clouds bringing in additional income on the pack for their work and would put positive attention onto Armstrong Powerhouse. But this choice to make it separate really puts negative attention onto them instead and may make others stray away from purchasing future products. Even from me, a person who usually tries to justify and defend Armstrong Powerhouse on here is taken aback by this choice. I must admit, I am a hypocrite in this situation though because truth is I probably will be buying this new enhancement pack anyway as I love my game looking as good as possible as I am a huge fan of the screenshotting side of things and it's a big part of my enjoyment with the game but it's not like I'm exactly going to feel good about the purchase either. Edit: I also forgot to mention them turning off comments right after announcing the Clouds Enhancement Pack puts even more negative attention onto them. It's quite a bad situation for the relationship with the players for Armstrong Powerhouse.
We don't know that it will be. It may be done in such a way that it works perfectly with Sky and Weather EP for those that have it, yet give the new cloud textures for those that don't. I'm happy to wait and see what it is, then make a judgment. All I know it, everything AP do makes the sim look, and sound better, so I'm sure all will be revealed soon enough.
Looks like a bit of miscommunication there on my part with my post. I am fairly sure it will work well as an addition to the Sky & Weather Enhancement Pack 2.0 but it's just an annoying situation where I have to make another purchase for it to reach it's true potential. I saw a comment earlier that made a good point, it's like when a game developer puts out a game that is not the best that it can be or unfinished even, but then later releases DLC to finish it up and make it reach it's true potential intead of making it an update. I am not a fan of this business practice... The Sky & Weather Enhancement Pack does stand well on it's own don't get me wrong and these clouds look really good, but like I mentioned it is an annoying situation where you have to purchase something else to make it reach it's true potential when it should already be included with the base pack.
At this stage, we don't know what it is, how much it will cost, or even whether we need to pay for it at all. We know nothing.
Why not clarify it up front, or upon noticing the worries? It would be so simple. It sounds like testing the waters, like when raising taxes, the ultimate decision depends on the scale of the outrage. That's all. No amount of white knighting will help it. They need to come clear.
Wait a second. Clouds are a new separate pack? I'm confused by this. Other than graphical benefits, what is the purpose to this?
Well, all I've got to say on the subject is... I suggest a few people here listen to the whole 8 minutes and chill the f... out.
It's a graphical update, so apart from improving the game graphically, what else would you like it to do? The track EP makes the tracks look better. It has no other purpose, so why are you not asking what other purpose that has, or the signal EP, or even the current sky & weather EP? They are to make the game look better. Seriously... that was a silly question
As a very recent convert to AP packs my initial thought was that it should be part of Sky and weather. I’ll keep an open mind though. I would hope that it won’t be too expensive and the screenshots did look very nice. The Sky and Weather Pack + the Signal Pack have been the biggest ’Game Changers’ for me, I’m interested to hear more. What I really want is a Class 142. I have so many scenarios I can’t run fully as I was too late to get the old pack. So I hope that comes along soon.
It's not a silly question at all. Unless they plan to have some kind of special cloud effect that is called in scenarios (the absence of which calls for random clouds in the sky), I see no gameplay benefit to this beyond "Ooh, what a pretty sky". So I am legitimately confused why they are doing a pack just for clouds.
Well, the question is, how much are you willing to pay to have a few more cloud types and make your game prettier. In this case it's a DLC for a DLC (variety for a technical add-on), which isn't entirely uncommon: loco for a route. Heck, scenario for a loco for a route. And with that, I just have a new idea: solar eclipse add-on. Alternative shape for the sun, with dynamic changes to ambient and sunlight (somewhat already available with the 3D clouds system). There is also room for earthquakes.
But that's the same as saying, "I see no gameplay benefit to this beyond 'Ooh, what pretty tracks' " with regard to the Track Enhancement Pack. It would be like having "legitimate" confusion over why they did a pack just for tracks. It was a stupid question. It's a graphical enhancement. It's purpose is to improve the graphics. It has no other purpose. It's not supposed to have any other purpose. Why does a graphical improvement pack need any other purpose than to improve graphics?
It WASN'T a stupid question at all. I genuinely don't know why this isn't an upgarade to SWEP V2 - I'm sorry but any money for a bunch of clouds is just silly and quite frankly, this is the first time I wont be purchasing an AP pack on release - it's superfluous and a fist to the face of those of us who paid out for SWEP V2 imho. You only have to look at the response to this and AP locking down comments (and deleting the comments that went up that were mostly negative) to know this is a huge misstep by AP.
Perhaps this is a free upgrade to owners of SWEP 2.0 and a sweetener to those sitting on the fence about it. That'd be my hand if I were playing. Always best to see what happens next than speculate too much without much detail. Gotta give the fella the benefit of the doubt at the end of the day.
