According to your estimation that means altogether we have 1,112 services. 650 from Kings X, 462 TL core
yup that's about right. Now it doesn't include the empty stock moves, Freight services, railtours which would add to those numbers. The ECML and MML would both be great routes in my opinion for the 700 to show off is A/C sounds
I'm still curious about this sound licensing issue. If I read between the lines I think AP held back half the sounds as I think giving it all away might impact his 700 enhancement pack. Just speculating
I played earlier today jut for 20 minutes before I went t work, had the volume low so could hear much. But I’ll try it tonight. I’m still going with the 700/1 will come out with a route sooner than later
The sound level is awful TBH as I’ve registered in the other thread. Way too quiet compared to external trains passing, so if you turn it up you get deafened every time something else goes past. Have to question how this cleared beta and play testing. There’s also a bit of a sound loop when you get up to speed though the nature of the timetable pretty much precludes this apart from a couple of short sections. Visually and physics wise it is good, but once again it seems the sound department have dropped the ball.
From my own personal irl experience when travelling on 700's, sometimes it really is so quite that you actually cannot hear the external motor sounds.
However it should not be overwhelmed by the external sound of a train passing. Contrast this with the 323 where the sound balance between how you hear the traction sounds and exterior trains passing is exactly right.
Including the Class 387 is a no brainer - AFAIK there's very little modification needed from the Class 387 we have in London Commuter, all for the benefit of many more playable services and a busier timetable (as well as potentially being the first route in a long while with three train types included as standard). For those who really don't like more electrostars, just avoid playing those services and use them for the extra AI they would bring. In this situation it's a perfectly acceptable use case IMO. Only real issue with the 387 is that they mostly operate on King's Lynn services nowadays running non-stop to Cambridge from King's Cross (so either these would be AI only or include a fictious extra stop at Stevenage/Hitchin for playability). They also used to run to Peterborough before being taken over by Thameslink services, some may still run to Peterborough at peak times however. Regarding the Class 717, they share many similarities to the Class 700, but likely to different to make it a straightforward remodel (different cab, train formation and interiors, plus different safety systems - ETCS I believe). It would make more sense to feature this as a loco DLC later on introducing additional services such as the Moorgate - Welwyn G.C. stoppers, along with my aforementioned idea of "unlocking" the scenery into Moorgate (similar to how TSC has some routes with extra laid track but with paid extensions so populate the scenery there). Just to clarify, the Class 387 and Class 717 units do not share allocations - they are kept separate for different uses. The Class 717 are a fleet of inner suburban units which operate primarily into Moorgate from Welwyn G.C. and Stevenage via Hertford North. The Class 387 are a fleet of outer suburban units operating longer distance services to Peterborough and Cambridge/King's Lynn from London King's Cross. The Class 387 are dual voltage because they were built to operate for Thameslink before the introduction of the Class 700. Also regarding the LNER license - there's already LNER branded content in TSC so they are at least in contact with them regarding their use of the brand. Seems more likely than unlikely.
Thank you for the great details. In your opinion which part of the ECML would DTG likely build? King's Cross- Peterborough- 24 stations,76 miles. King Cross- Cambridge- 26 stations, 58.5 miles. King's Cross-Hitchin-18 stations, 32 miles
The 717 should be added as a base loco, if anything the 91 should be dlc, new locos should be 717, and the 800/801, that’s two new locos and, probably the remaining 80x as it would just be licensing the locos as they are the same as the 800 essentially, a 700/1 would be the third train, and we have a busy enough east coast
I'd love the ECML South. Really want a Class 800 and 801 in TSW, as well as possibly the ability for a Class 91 Loco pack.
In all honestly, most likely King's Cross to Peterborough without any branches. That alone is very complex, but arguably doable. In terms of the timetable, that would mean Northern City Line and Thameslink services starting/ending at Finsbury Park, and unlike going to Cambridge, Peterborough provides somewhere suitable for the LNER services to start/end with a somewhat decent run. MML South *could* include the Thameslink core, but this is only based on the presumption that the route is less complex compared to the ECML (but still quite a complex route to begin with). There's really lots of possible combinations - knowing I myself usually change my selection whenever mentioning it. To keep it simple, we at least need one express train and one commuter train, anything else is really a welcome bonus. Anyhow, I don't want to over-fantasise about the prospects of a ECML South only to be disappointed about it again not happening, especially after lots of us thought what became the Glossop line would be the ECML last time a new route appeared on the roadmap.
What about old EMUs is "iconic"? Growing up with them doesn't count. There are plenty of trains that were gone before I was born, like Deltics and Westerns that I'd consider iconic, but no EMUs. I'm sure when I'm on my 40s, I'll consider Electrostars just as iconic as you consider older EMUs. And I happen to like the noises an Electrostar makes. More pleasant than the low moan of old EMUs.
Actually it is all relative. Although the Class 700 sounds are botched and too quiet, they have had the effect of making me appreciate the Electrostar sounds. It is all subjective though and there is a natural inclination to gravitate towards that which we retain a particular fondness for. And EMU wise, nothing really beats sitting in the motor car of a 4REP powering through the New Forest from Bournemouth to Southampton!
Wanted to link a couple of youtube videos which I think gives us some information on Thameslink and Great Northern operations. We can get an idea how the timetable would look like on the ECML and MML with these two operators.
Out of the two, I'd much prefer ECML South - though only if it meant there was a 700/1 variant though as these, unlike the /0, actually go all the way to Peterborough. Here are some pics why I think ECML would be a clear winner compared to MML: All pictures taken by myself King's Cross is such a beautiful station - deserves to be in TSW just for that reason alone! A busy Peterborough with a plethora of both high-speed and commuter services The 700/1 exclusively serves Peterborough on services from Horsham - so the ECML South route would absolutely need a /1 Great Northern have operated quite a few Class 387s from GX - and even some retained the iconic branding. So, with London Commuter and the GX 387 already, this should be included for realism With the ECML South having TL services originating from Peterborough and Cambridge which head to the BML (Horsham - technically Arun Valley Line - and Brighton, respectively), would like to see these represented in London Commuter
ECML South because you have Class 387/2 run Fen Line Trips via Cambridge 700/1 700/0 LNER 800 801 First Group Lumo 803s
What's the combined length of the MML to Blackfriars plus the service south from there around the whole Sutton loop? If that combined package is possible, that would be my own personal choice given how much I've personally used it in comparison to the ECML which I've only done one run along up to Edinburgh with other journeys being a few London centric journeys that branch off it or Cambridge which also branches off it. Couple that with some future re-working to the DC sounds and I'd certainly be down for that. Also, on a personal level, it would see two of my three local stations enter the game (Herne Hill & Tulse Hill) so win win for me
Bedford- London Blackfriars 19 stations, 54 miles. This is about the current length of similar size route (BML, NYT, Mainz to Koblenz). Don't think they would be able to add the whole sutton loop branch.
MAX1319 did you also manage to factor in track distance for both routes? It’s a big factor in how long DTG will make either of them.
Just curious on the 387 trains from GX that says operated by Gatwick express Does it means these trains and crew are lease to Great Northern but are still part of the Gatwick express...........
Great Northern and Gatwick Express are both operated by the same company, Govia Thameslink Railway (GTR) In fact, Great Northern, Thameslink, Southern and Gatwick Express are all part of the same franchise.
If we got MML down to Blackfriars (or even ECML south at a real stretch), I'd wonder if they'd go one more stop around the corner and get London Bridge into the game for a future SE route. We can only speculate of course. You'd also hope that the scenery in the centre of London would get some serious attention...
Yea I was actually thinking about that. Imagine connecting MML with the BML going through the core. Going from AC to DC. London bridge down, to Brighton. I’m sorry I fell asleep for a second and was day dreaming
Here's are some screens shots from ATS ECML peterborough/Cambridge route which in my opinion one of the best UK routes in TSC
As someone who lives on the ecml, it would genuinely be a dream come true to see it in game and i don’t think i’d stop playing it. Just being able to do all the moves i go and film or see daily in tsw would be so crazy to me. Tbh, i’ll be happy with either or (mml or ecml) but ofc i would prefer ecml.
One of my wish lists for any new AC UK route, is that ATS gets involved, especially in scenery and OHLE work, because their packs on TSC are very detailed and it would be nice to have more accurate OLE in TSW3
if the canal tunnels, thameslink core is included you can expect a train every 3 minutes during peak each direction. I guess you can compare it to the bakerloo line park passenger service mode
I did a run from Luton to Orpington it took about 110 minutes to complete. It was an evening peak service with around 54 AI. This was on Danny's South london Thameslink merge route. Great route. Just shows what the potential of a similar route would look on TSW. the 700/0 doing mostly all stop and go on the MML. While the 700/1 and East midlands trains doing the fast services. From Luton to Blackfriars all stop service is almost an hour long. So a Bedford to Brighton slow service would probably be 70 minutes
Currently speeding along the ‘northern’ end of the ecml south on a 700 and it just makes me want to do it in game so so much more
Give the 700 a chance from Bedford and compare the two . I think they would be great routes. I wouldn't mind either one.
i’ve rode from farringdon to bedford in one, still pretty enjoyable but i do prefer my local mainline personally
Looking at what Matt said on another thread and applying here. It would seem that this would favor more of a MML south route. St Pancras station and area would complement the MML south, the HST,395,700, all of this content would complement it without doing anything to the locos. At least that’s the way I interpreted of what Matt said without giving anything away
Hello all, long-term lurker, first-time poster here. Even though I'd love to see ECML South in TSW3, I think BedPan/MML South wins the argument. At just under 2/3 the distance of Blackfriars - Peterborough (PBO), MML South allows a fast Thameslink service to do the Blackfriars (BFR) - Bedford (BDM) run of 7 stations in 58 minutes, compared to the BFR-PBO run of 12 stations in 98 minutes. A semi-fast BFR-BDM service calling at 11 stations can do the run in 69 minutes. Thameslink doesn't have a semi-fast/fast distinction on the ECML. For me, that means more variety straight off the bat. The MML also has a more evenly-distanced station spread compared to the ECML. The ECML is lumpy with lots of stations in North London and in Hertfordshire, south of Stevenage (served by Great Northern services), though these are ignored by the Thameslink calling pattern. Once at Sandy (a similar latitude to Bedford), there are only 2 intermediate stops in the remaining 30 miles or so of the ~74 miles of the ECML to Peterborough. I also think it's a rather dull stretch of the southern ECML. The Intercity blast up the MML is more frequently a 2-stop service at Luton and Luton Airport Parkway compared to more typically on the ECML a non-stop service to Peterborough with only a very infrequent one-stop service calling at Stevenage. The licences for East Midland Trains and Thameslink are already owned, unlike multiple TOCs on the ECML. That's why, even though I think the southern half of ECML South is far more interesting, MML South makes more sense for DTG to release. Final point (thanks for sticking around!), I also think Blackfriars is a must. Central London is criminally underrepresented in TSW with some great stations missing compared to TSC. The Class 700 will benefit from starting in an architecturally interesting station (rather than underground at City Thameslink or St Pancras) and allow people to do the AC/DC power changeover.
I have said it elsewhere but this section of line actually makes me look forward to getting to Peterborough on the northbound because I know after Peterborough things get more interesting, and dread leaving Peterborough on the southbound services because I know the next 45 minutes is going to be a dull drag with the only excitement coming from overtaking TL trains. I would adore to see the ECML in game but after much pondering out of these two sections give me the MML (with a VP185 HST), however I would like to see a section of the ECML north of Peterborough more than the MML. Obviously I wouldn't turn down the Peterborough to Kings Cross section but it's at the bottom of the list for the sections of the line I want to see.
Not quite true, you have cambridge stoppers which stop at various intermediate stations, then you have 717s from finsbury up to welwyn, but yes i suppose they don’t go all the way. You do also have peak time GN ones skipping most TL stations so there is still a good variety of commuter services.
You're right, I forgot the 2tph Thameslink services to Cambridge. Though, Realtime Trains shows these as following the same calling pattern as the Peterborough services. Namely, through the Core, a stop at Finsbury Park, then non-stop to Stevenage—bypassing several stations in Herts. I'm deliberately not including Great Northern. AIUI, they're not a Class 700 operator and recent DTG developer chat is all about re-using assets wherever possible on new products.
Oh yeah, well tbh, GN and TL are basically the same thing really when it comes to the services they do. Sometimes a ‘GN’ service can use a 700 and vice versa with 387s as TL services to KGX. Cambridge ‘stoppers’ stop at places such as finsbury, new southgate, potters bar, hatfield etc compared to the more non stop style of most thameslink and GN services (fast from finsbury to stevenage)
Absolutely not true, you can do way more with an ECML than a MML, there is literally no point of adding the line to the game until it gets to Leicester which is about 100 miles, 20 stations and is way better than only running it as far as Bedford. If not I want an ECML because there are more trains, better patterns and the argument of scenery is subjective
Well the Cross to Posh wasn’t too bad with a Deltic or even a Duff. Personally I still think the MML would be better for TSW, as regards a stretch of the ECML would prefer to see some thing north of Newcastle. Or maybe Darlington t o Newcastle. Anything with my birthplace (which was actually Gateshead!) would go down nicely.