Time To Go For 8th Gen

I upgraded from Xbox one s to series x about a year and a half ago, and whilst at first I still believed that 8th gen should be supported, the last few months have made me realise how much those consoles hold back tsw. I think it’s time for dtg to reconsider their stance on 8th gen consoles and whether it’s really worth still supporting them, or if they should use common sense and leave it behind

 

I think DTG have already posted somewhere that it’s the amount of 8th Gen console users which makes it viable to keep them. It would be a big revenue drop if they stopped supporting 8th Gen.
It also mentioned that it wasn’t necessarily holding back development, but on that point I would agree with you, that surely development would be easier and could progress further if they reduced the amount of generations they had to cater for?
As it stands, with the current cost of living crisis I doubt people are queuing up to upgrade to 9th Gen, especially if the game is still being supported on 8th Gen. Maybe if console manufacturers reduced the cost of 9th Gen, you may see a increase in sales that would sway DTG’s thinking.
It’s an interesting post, that will probably divide opinion.
For clarity, I’m on Xbox series x

 

Several times the past few weeks DTG has stated very clearly that gen8 will not be dropped any time soon.

Why keep beating this dead horse? Get over it!

 

So because you’ve upgraded, then everyone has to?

I personally want the maximum number of people possible to enjoy the hobby. There are still a massive number of people on GEN8 and you want to cut them all off to get a couple of extra layers or slightly better consists of whatever else you think is being held back?

Sorry but I don’t agree. I’m lucky enough to have a good PC and a Series X (but still sometimes play on a One S) but I don’t feel I’m being held back enough to want to cut other people out of the hobby they enjoy.

Fortunately that isn’t going to happen yet. DTG has been quite clear.

 

I never said that

 

Gen 8 are over 10 years old. You can't keep supporting ancient hardware forever.
What they could do is release two versions Gen 8, and Gen 9 and PC as another version with increased settings. Much like a lot of sport games do.

Gen 8 (and the series S) is 100% holding back the game. Every time DTG talk about memory issues, it's to do with those platforms.

 

Genuine question, not trying to argue, but would you have made your opening post if you were still on Gen 8?

I just feel that there are a lot of people still on Gen 8 that would read your post and be worried because they can’t upgrade.

If I misinterpreted something then I’m sorry. That’s just how it sounded to me.

 

Matt said they hold back the game a little bit in terms of memory usage and available layers. But they can always do other timetables for different consoles as they're looking into doing. Remember The initial 9th gen builds where 8th gen had reduced services compared to 9th and PC. Matt even said they're looking at a way to get account for series S and get another build for it. Look at BML with a reduced timetable for 8th gen.

As he said they could do a Paddington to Penzance route that would work and run on 8th gen but it makes 0% commercial sense to do it. The main thing that holds the game back in those terms is time it takes to make content.

Dropping 8th gen and Series S would be a business and financial nightmare as previously discussed.

 

He's certainly not going to admit that Gen 8th is holding back the game a lot, in the same post he says they're continuing support for them is he? That would be shooting yourself in the foot.

 

I think I worded the thread poorly. That one’s on me. But if I was on gen 8, I don’t think I’d realise how much gen 8 is holding back tsw and so I’d probably want it to stay

 

Playing devil’s advocate here, but if DTG dropped gen 8 for TSW4 onwards, players would still be able to play and buy routes for TSW3 and prior. So gen 8 revenue would not drop off a cliff but gradually fall away, as I’m fairly sure there’s plenty of gen 8 players out there who haven’t yet completed their TSW3 route collection.

 

Like I've said before why don't Dovetail do a next gen version and keep this version for gen 8 consoles similar to what Grand Theft Auto have done

 

Too hard to support with such a small team.
DTG ain't in Rockstars ball park. Physically or financially.

 

Gen 8 is a big chunk of revenue for not a big chunk of extra compilation time. How does DTG lopping off a big chunk of their revenue enable them to make the game better?

 

Read from Mr. P´s post forward. Very interesting read and funny enough, it seems that a gen9 console plays a major role when it comes to "holding back progress".

[update 13 July] This Time I Am Really Annoyed

 

Its also not just about whats holding the game back. If gen 8 still makes up such a high percentage of dlc sales and income theres no point dropping support for it or they'd shoot themselves in the foot again. This is very much a monitor the user base situation. If there were very few 8th gen users then sure go ahead and drop it. But we aren't at that point yet.

As Matt also said they are looking at ways of diluting the timetables etc also. So I don't think theres a need to drop gen 8 while they can adjust layers etc

 

I’d love to get a PS5 some time in the future, but not really for TSW specifically, I’d certainly appreciate the increased memory and overall better experience it would offer but at the moment unless DTG say gen 8 is being cut off I’m not in a rush to save up for gen 9, especially since progress transfer isn’t a thing yet, it’s extremely off putting thinking about starting from level 1 again. Ideally, I’d get myself a pc so I can enjoy all the enhancements people put out but that’s out of the question.

 

Your post said it for you

 

DTG follows the market, it doesn't drive it. Right now there is a very large Gen 8 installed base, and DTG would be fools not to cater to it. Mass migrations are triggered by the software giants; I reckon the death and final end of Gen 8 will occur when Rockstar releases GTA 6 for 9 only and that will be the "killer app." But until then, a little developer like DTG can't leave money lying on the table.

It's also the case, as mentioned above, that the real fly in the ointment is not the Gen 8 consoles (which have been getting nerfed versions for some time), but rather XBox Series S and its memory limitations.

 

It may have implied it, it wasn’t meant to however

 

I haven’t heard dtg say that recently, but thank you for informing me so kindly and gently

 

It will make more sense for 8 gen to be dropped next year because the cheaper PS5 comes out aka the PS5 slim.
Plus next year is gonna be the year where Xbox and PlayStation will stop adding games on gen8 and stop making updates to the software, and they might just be summer release for TSW3 this year then TSW 4 will be a next gen only next year.

 

Even if they stop supporting Gen 8 there are other low end devices they are targeting, like handheld computers. The best games have always offered something for everyone and scaled the visuals and features accordingly. This game does that too. Comparing Train Sim World 2020 for PS4 to Train Sim World 2 or 3 on PS5 is like night and day because of the increased texture detail, resolution, frame rate, and so on. It's still largely the same game underneath.

While there will definitely come a time where they will have to move on from older hardware, I don't see it being the biggest factor in why routes are shorter than we like, or lacking detail. In fact, I would argue the fact they sell it on these platforms gives them more chance to make sales and increases the overall available development budget.

 

A comprise can be made if going foward they do like was done for SEHS.Two timetables. One for gen8 and Xbox S and another for gen 9 and PC

 

Well, up until 18 months ago, I was playing on a PC I purchased in 2010. I suspect that many players have older PC's. Do you think they should upgrade asap? At current PC prices?

That old machine was actually doing quite well and exceeded the minimum specs that DTG publish. I upgraded only so I could play in 4K at good frame rates.

Has anyone considered that older pc's are what's holding back the game, along with gen 8 consoles? Together, that might be 50% of the player base.

 

Talking of Apple….Maybe Sony & Microsoft could be a bit like phone companies and do contracts for consoles. You pay a bit each month for 24/36 months, that way you always stay up to date with latest technology.

 

1) Apple makes the hardware
2) Apple is the world's largest company and drives an entire industry. DTG, not so much

 

Fair point, I’ll hold off on my application to be Alan Sugars Apprentice this year.

 

Older PC's aren't holding it back, games update their Minimum, and Reccomended requirements all the time. It's also possible to manually alter settings on PC's to make literally anything be able to run it due to ini edits.

 

It's not that older hardware holds back new updates, it's older phones don't have enough power for the new updates. And even then, Apple throttles the speed on them to give them the longest life span possible.

This is similar to what DTG are doing, taking away some features like static stock and and layers to give it the longest possible. In my experience it's not like the ps4 crashes as soon as you try to load TSW, it may not be buttery smooth but it's runs well enough for people to still play it and not move to ps5.

 

There is a way to do that with Xbox if I recall. It's like all access or something. Pay a monthly fee and get console plus game pass. But I would love to see that expanded to all (I'm ps4 user) because I think I could swing an extra monthly to get a new console (plus like in Xbox all access you get game pass as well so like it's a pretty good combo) whereas I can't afford to drop money on a new console. I do hope that the devs are able to do more with low memory timetables as I am okay with having a lesser timetable while allowing those with the hardware to have a fuller more detailed experience.

Edit: and I'm pretty sure with all access at the end of like 24/36 months you are considered to have paid for the console and will only have to pay for game pass but the console is yours not a lease.

 

It's even more unrealistic for a small company like them to stop supporting a platform that still brings in a significant proportion of their revenue.

 

As long as their bean counters ( or Focus Entertainment's ) tell them it makes financial sense, I imagine.

 

Series S isn’t holding the game back, it only happened with SEHS. People hear that the series S couldn’t cope with one route and believe it’s holding the game back. Bear in mind the series S runs BML and Munich -Augsburg smoothly without any drops. Series S is still gen 9, with less memory than a series x

 

Gen 8 is not holding back. Otherwise we would not have game chrashes and stuttering on Gen 9 too especially since TSW3. It's a evidence that TSW needs more software optimization to reduce memory usage.

 

The optimisation needed for tsw won’t work on gen 8

 

Of course, gamers have the right to remain on older consoles and insist that devs keep making games for those consoles for as long as possible. As a PS5 owner, I also have the right to only purchase games that look and play like they were developed for modern hardware. If TSW4 doesn't meet that criteria then I'll be holding out for a massive discount sale at the very least.

 

It doesn't work on gen 9 too. Since TSW3 I have stuttering and game chrashes on my PS5 too. Or is PS5 not gen9?

 

As a PS5 owner you have longer american trains, bigger time tables and better graphics. So you have already your gen9 experience. The longer north american trains were the reason for me for buying a PS5. And I'm not jealous on Gen8 mates, that they hold back my gen9 experience.
I am so happy that a lot of other people can share our hobby, equally which hardware they have.

I think we're all railfans here. And that is the most important. Not the question on which harware we ride.

 

Actually it's been told to me over and over that TSW3 is perfectly optimised for gen9. You must share the same eye affliction as me where you see camera shaking stutters all over. If I ever find an eye doctor specialised in TSW3 eye transplants I will let you know.

 

The reason is probably that with TSW3 they put to many new things like the new lighting system inside. And overall that things need much more memory. You can see that also the dlc size and the loading times before playing a service for the TSW3 routes are much bigger than for TSW2.

 

Would be nice if you could turn off most or all of that useless fluff in the settings menu to gain a smooth ride. A lot of these"features" look laughably ugly. Have you seen that snow cloud effect off the trains? Makes me laugh out loud every time I see it and then I laugh even harder knowing that this was introduced as an amazing new effect . I should probably show more empathy and feel sorry for the presenters. It can't be easy trying to sell a dull penny and pretend it's a crisp new hundred dollar bill.

 

You forgot the males with pony tale haircut. I personally prefered the classic tsw male haircuts.

 

It is a universal problem with Series S goimg forward. While the Gen 8 versions can be nerfed for the hardware limitations of PS4 and XBox One, Series S runs the same Gen 9 software as Series X, but doesn't really have the horsepower for it.

 

It's like a V8 smallblock instead of a V8 bigblock. You can se it also at the size. S is more than half smaller than X.

 

Dtg can still cater to each platform as necessary. That's why there are 2 timetables for sehs

 

I totally understand where you're coming from and I agree that we're all railfans. But to me, TSW3 is not a a Gen9 experience, not by a longshot. In fact I'd say it's the worst-performing game in my PS5 library in terms of frame rate, scenery loading, etc. Whether or not this has anything to do with Gen8 or limited dev resources or outdated engines or anything else is beyond my knowledge. I only know what my eyes tell me.

 

No, they can't. XBox Series necessarily run the same software; that's a Microsoft thing and there's nothing DTG can do about it

 

This discussion for Gen8 is not fair... If you buy 1 new graphics card you paid twice 1 console.... A mid-range GPU is at the moment a little cheaper but over a time period of 10 years asking for support and never spend money for a new console is silly! I paid over the years around 2000€ on my PC and I didn't have a high-end PC.... A console price is around 450€ in 10 years.... So stop to discussed about of it is fair or not!!! 45€ each year you have to save....