PS5 Why Would You Do This To Poor Little Br 363?

Discussion in 'TSW Troubleshooting & Issues Discussion' started by Pipe, Aug 2, 2023.

  1. Pipe

    Pipe Well-Known Member

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    She´s certainly strong and powerful, but not that powerful.
    Found on BRO - Timetable Mode - KT 50491 - Bremen Grolland-Maschen

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  2. bobbobberdd

    bobbobberdd Well-Known Member

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  3. Pipe

    Pipe Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely, that´s a treat for the 155.
     
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  4. Taihennami

    Taihennami Well-Known Member

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    I think I've had that combination before, and was just about able to complete the service using the Shunting gear. Getting up the hill out of the yard was impossible in Travelling gear.
     
  5. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    This I must try! I do like the 363, got a nice bit of character.
     
  6. bobbobberdd

    bobbobberdd Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't work for me, but I don't want to rule out that it's my fault.:D
     
  7. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I tried it but couldn’t get the brakes to stay off once it started moving. I was also having to constantly hold down the sanding button which is probably not good for the keyboard buffer. I suspect if it was double headed by 2 x 363 or maybe used the G6 there wouldn’t be a problem.
     
  8. hells.high.lord666

    hells.high.lord666 Well-Known Member

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    You can try it in the G6 if you have it.
    Had to put the G6 on full throttle but it got the train moving
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2023
  9. Taihennami

    Taihennami Well-Known Member

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    Having gone back to it, I think I see where the problem lies. The Czech articulated wagons used for this intermodal train have some kind of problem with the brakes, which manifests in two distinct ways:

    1: When close to the release point, the wagons collectively leak air faster than the BR363's decidedly anaemic compressor can supply, and this makes it very hard to release the brakes fully. There are a couple of ways to do it, but it's time-consuming.

    2: Every so often, the inshot valve is triggered on some wagon which propagates to others adjacent to it, and all the way along the train, effectively causing a spontaneous minimum application.

    I would wager that both these problems have the same root cause, which is some numerical instability in the brake pipe and/or valve modelling on these wagons, which may even be causing the inshot valve to "flap". The same symptoms are seen when hauled with the G6 (so it isn't the BR363 causing it), but the G6 has a considerably stronger air system and is thus able to keep the brakes held off sufficiently to allow it to be moved. It just gets slowed down a bit every time the brakes spontaneously apply themselves.
     
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  10. tft#6439

    tft#6439 Well-Known Member

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    Even a Class 66 probably couldn't hall that much! Couldn't even see the end!
     
  11. Taihennami

    Taihennami Well-Known Member

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    It's 44 containers on flat wagons, total train weight around 1200t. Within the capacity of an RA7 Bo-Bo with appropriate gearing - up Beattock, to boot. A 66 would arguably be overkill.

    The trick is that the BR363 is an RA5 3-axle loco, so has somewhat less available tractive adhesion. Add the brake problems and it's genuinely difficult to move the train - but still possible.
     
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  12. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    On bremen oldenburg is a service with "empty" coal wagons. I like the fact its pulled in double traction with a total weight of 4300tons ;). The 40+ wagons are all full and will be shunted away at oldenburg by a pair of 363. Seems the a.i physics dont have troubles.
     
  13. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if the scenario would still complete if you detached some vehicles from the rear and left them behind, as had to be done on some other routes with overweight trains (Clinchfield comes to mind).
     
  14. Pipe

    Pipe Well-Known Member

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    IIRC it does complete with the usual "unexpected train formation" message on arrival. It´s not a proper scenario, just plays from the timetable. Somehow the poor little loco stands in on a consist that should probably being handled by the 155 or 185.

    BTW: I tried this again in shunting gear and after a loooooong wait for brake charge. But no, no way to get this driving.
     
  15. Pipe

    Pipe Well-Known Member

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    The game gave me 1734,7t as overall weight and 657,7m as train length (second pic). So, looks like a respectable train to handle. At least for german circumstances.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2023
  16. Taihennami

    Taihennami Well-Known Member

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    There are two methods that work for me (on PC). One is to use sand (and shunting gear) to increase the 363's tractive effort. The other is to go along the train and pull the "distributor release" handles briefly on each wagon, which helps to get the brakes completely released with the limited extent to which the 363 can charge the brake pipe. This allows the 363 to start the train without using sand. You should be able to use full throttle from 5kph upwards.
     
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  17. Pipe

    Pipe Well-Known Member

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    Sure, I´ll try again, this is actually fun.
    I suppose the brake distributor release must be started at the last wagon, right? We are on a 0.1% grade there ...
     
  18. Taihennami

    Taihennami Well-Known Member

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    You can use the external camera for it, to simulate having a shunter on the ground. Procedurally, you would start by applying the loco brake and a few handbrakes at the downhill end of the train, not forgetting to release them again before departure.
     
  19. Pipe

    Pipe Well-Known Member

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    Hehe, your hint really does work, big Thanks! Releasing the brakes for every single wagon will do the trick. I did it on foot and sure enough, all car drivers of the region and quite a few train drivers as well want to eat you alive now since you caused *THE* traffic jam of the century. :D:D:D

    This is real fun and I won´t spoil it: Just only use the loco brake to stop on the first leg, and watch your speed at the second (end) leg!

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    Last edited: Aug 7, 2023
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  20. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Yes it almost plays out like an actual scenario as the AI signaller moves all those delayed trains around you at Neustadt. On the final run down into Hbf I was positively cruising at 15 MPH. I found the secret to keeping moving was as soon as you hear the air hiss and speed drop, reduce throttle to 55 or 60%, apply sand as this stops you from slipping then at about 7 km/h speed starts to build and you can run up again.
     
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