Tsw 4 *spoiler Alert You Have Been Warned*.

Maybe I’ll give the videos a miss now damn to the untrained eye it looked good to me. But then what the heck do I know…….um yep, nothing lol Going back to scenarios now.

 

Exactly what I was thinking. Looked impressive. I was already sold on TSW4

 

Yes you are more likely to get more accurate information on here. He got the right rolling stock but the 717s don't run to Peterborough for example and there were a couple of other things which weren't quite right. Not a bad channel but you will need two pinches of salt compared to the one needed on here.

 

Ely did make me chuckle.
I'll be honest, I really hope DTG go above and beyond, and give us Kings Cross to Peterborough, with the Hartford Loop included.
Would be a perfect route.

 

That's the one mentioned in the video right?

 

He mentions either Kings cross to stevenage, with the Hartford Loop, or Kings Cross to Peterborough without the Hartford Loop.
I'm hoping for them both combined like they are in the TSC version of the route.

 

But that's already off the table because I see you describe it as a huge operation to pull off?

 

Yes I would say Kings Cross to Peterborough should be the minimum, providing this is the section DTG offer, and then anything else is a bonus. The Hertford Loop is an interesting line, though that could be because when I use it it is a nice change from the normal route, which would be great on top of the line to Posh.

 

Not really, would be about the same as the current version of SEHS. They've also done the exact version of that route previously for TSC.

 

I think the thing making it unlikely is that to get a near to accurate timetable you'd need new, class 800 (both subclasses), class 801 (both subclasses), 700/1 and 717, whereas just to Peterborough would remove the need for a 717 and the extra mileage. I do hope DTG go the extra mile with whatever the British route this year is as they need to make up the shambles of an offering from last year.

 

I hope they go above and beyond because it sounds exciting. Not sure what the end result would be but the 22nd can't come soon enough so we finally can stop speculating

 

The only difference between the Class 800 sub classes is coach amount. It's just 3 coaches or 7. Doesn't really require much in the way of work. The 800, and 801 differences is just the Bimodal. They are the same otherwise with the diesel engines removed.

I agree on the 717 though.

 

Yes, I know but this is still extra work for DTG, even though I would assume they will make the vehicles for the 9 and then reduce it to the 5 car taking out the appropriate coaches, I only said this as we only got the 700/0 otherwise I would be 100% be thinking the same as you. Also I don't know how DTG do the physics and whatnot but there is a difference in the handling of a 5 car and 9 car particularly when braking. Again in the real world the 800s and 801s are mechanically very similar apart from the fact that 800s are bi-mode and 801s are purely EMU (though they do have a singular diesel engine to give them the capability to limp home) but in the game I don't know how much extra work this would be. Again there are subtle performance differences between the two as well. I see what you're saying and agree that both should be more than possible but then I keep going back to the 700 in my mind which makes me less convinced. Again who knows at this moment in time what will happen, I mean for all we know the ECML may not be a base route anyway!

 

If I remember right, the issue with the Class 700/1 is that it has a specific type of coach that isn't present in the shorter 700/0.
That's not the case with the 800, the coaches that are present in the 5 car version, are almost the exact same as in the 9 car version. other than a few normal/disabled seats being swapped.
You can see the layouts here: https://www.lner.co.uk/globalassets/_page-structure/azuma-content/Azuma-seat-maps

Since TSW has the ability to uncouple coaches, I'm hoping the physics are modeled per coach/wagon, rather than per consist. I'm pretty sure this is the case.

So hopefully we can get the variants. At the very least I hope they do the 800 Bimodal 5/9 versions, as it has more utility for future content.

 

Yes the 9 car 80xs have coaches which are (although subtle) different from the coaches in the 5 cars. The way I view it is that the 800/2s are equivalent to the 700/0s (the shorter formation in the class) and the 800/1s are equivalent to the 700/1s (the longer trains in the class which have different coaches to the shorter ones) meaning that there is a chance we may only get the /2s. Although this sounds bonkers it isn't out of the question!
Physics wise I do hope your right because as I say in real life you can tell the difference between 800/1, 800/2, 801/1 and 801/2.

I think if it was 800 or 801 for ECML it would be the 801s personally because we have more of them than the 800s meaning that the timetable would be closer to real life. On the other hand an 801 on a Lincoln bound service wouldn't be great though. Honestly in this situation it is all or nothing really!

 

Fingers crossed for everything lol. Really been wanting the 800 in TSW.
It's pretty much the only reason I occasionally go back to TSC.

 

Yes, they are lovely units which would be great to have in game.

 

I had a great weekend just playing and enjoying TSW3 and TSC. was able to do all M3A services on the Harlem line. Drove lots of services on BML, SEHS, Boston, and on TSC the Peterborough to King's Cross. So we really haven't gotten anything new besides all the information that's available on Epic DB. The latest was a modification made to all DB on 8-3. Some other updates to the unreleased DB for Pentadecagon on 8-1 and 8-2 which was mentioned earlier on the thread and dismissed as they are "trying to confused us" . So with no new information and all this speculation just want to mentioned all this was very similar to last year around the same time. Just want you to look back and see what we actually got for TSW3 during the reveal.
for DE- we got a high speed route on 115 miles, 3 stations, 1 new loco
for UK- we got and extension that was around 45 miles of new track, 6 new stations, no new locos
for US - freight route 85 miles, 1 new loco.
So wanted to bring that out there before speculations start running wild.
Need to have realistic expectation to lessen the disappointment.
Don't get me wrong, I'm excited about what's coming, but then I remind myself what the history shows

 

Yes, you and me both buddy…..oh well, just have to wait a little longer now until we have the announcement

 

Not adding the 800 would be a shot in the foot, yes most LNER patterns are operated by 801s, but there is still a significant 800 presence - The harrogate, Lincoln, Highland Chieftain, Aberdonian, the occasional hull, the forthcoming cleethorpes and the Middlesbrough, and I’ve happened to see some 800s up in Leeds and skipton. It wouldn’t really make sense to only add the 800/2s and 801/1s as they are primarily ran by longer formations. The differences is essentially in power to rate ratio which is N/A for 801s but have a specific figure for 800s, I can’t remember them though, and 801s are EMU with a diesel engine. But there isn’t really that much of a noticeable difference between the 8xx subclass until you get to the 805s/807s/810s which there are a few noticeable differences

 

No matter what happens, whether we are going to get an 800 or 801, if we don't get both there will be services missing, unless DTG have units appear more than once. Yes the 800s can be rostered on any of our services, be it Kings Cross to Edinburgh or Kings Cross to Lincoln but there are still less 800s than 801s so there would be a compromise needed no matter what. Again I have not said it would make sense to only have the 800/2s or 801/1s but in my mind it didn't make sense to only have the 700/0. Although subtle, there are handling differences between the 800/1s, 800/2s, 801/1s and 801/2s with the 800s being slightly less nippy than the 801s and then all the subclasses vary brake wise too, though it's a bit more complicated than that in reality. In all honesty I can't think of any figures off my head but an 800/1 has 5 engines and an 800/2 has 3 meaning that the /2 does have the better power to weight ratio, and it is quite clear as well, when on diesel. As you say the 801 is an EMU which has a singular diesel engine which allows it to limp if the OHLE is down, for example, and the unit is caught in that section. The 800s are a completely different class to the 801s which in the same way are a completely different class to the 802s. The subclasses are the differences within the class, so the 801/1s and 801/2s are the same class of train but they are in a different subclass. Visually (apart from the 810) they are all very similar and it can be very hard to tell the difference but there are mechanical/ technical differences which make them different classes, whether those differences are enough to make a different class is another discussion for the Off Topic section. The 800s, 801s, 802s, 803s, 805s, 807s & 810s are all different classes of train and are not subclasses of each other (even though some probably should be). I hope this clears some things up and doesn't confuse things as I do have a tendency to not be very good at explaining things!

Also sorry for the essay!

I suppose we had better get back to speculating anyway!

 

Fair play buddy, your knowledge is incredible. I didn’t even know what a 800 was until I googled it.
I was sort of understanding, but then you mentioned sub classes etc and all I could think of was Victoria sponge, I have no idea why? I’ll have a cuppa and give it another go
But seriously, great post mate.

 

Remember on the BML they use only one class for the 377 which was 377/4 while they are actually six different classes. So DTG have done this before. In my opinion if we get the LNER 800 it will be one class only.

 

It's information I need to know/ have picked from work so recalling it is a piece of cake! This is very much scraping the surface about them! Yes the subclasses are usually where things go down the drain especially with the 8xxs where sometimes the differences between the classes are smaller than differences between and sometimes within subclasses between different TOCs! It's very much a jumbled mess so to understand some of it is very much an achievement! A good excuse for a cuppa!

 

Yes but again the class 800 is the class, so I presume you are referring to the subclass. That is what I was saying above so yes I agree that is the likely outcome of any ECML route.

 

I see what you did there, I’m actually laughing out loud whilst trying not to spill my tea

 

The 802 is a uprated 800 engine but weirdly limited at 110, but there’s a lot of footage of 800/802s doing 120 on diesel. 800/802/805 should be a subclass imo. 805s have difference in PIS and a few other things, there’s a detailed railforums page on it

 

Well, you've got my mind wired to just think of cake, now and forever!

 

Noooooo, not just any old cake, it’s Victoria Sponge. Which, ironically, you brought to the table (so to speak)

 

Correct, yes however I am sure that the GW 800s have also been uprated. Ours have not so they still maintain that difference. A 5 car 800 is more than capable of 125 if you have enough track but it puts much more strain on the engine than 110 and therefore increases the maintenance costs and really there aren't any sections of rail where the engines need to be pushed that far, or at least there wasn't when they were procured, but again a different discussion. If it was down to me (and I must sate this is my own personal opinion) there would be the class 800 (encompassing the class 800, 802 & 805), the class 801 (encompassing the class 801, 803 & 807) and the class 802 (which would be the class 810s). Differences in PIS will be more to do with the TOC requirements than the actual class so you would expect if the Avanti ones came to us they would be given the software to have the LNER PIS play.

 

Well of course Victoria Sponge!

No comment on the last bit apart from it may have been me who put it in the mix!

 

Lol I literally have no words

 

There isn’t really anywhere on the ECML where you can actually hit 125 for a bit, once you go north of Edinburgh towards Aberdeen is 100 max Inverness is 100 max as well, Harrogate is probably like 90mph (based off assumption correct me if I’m wrong), hull isn’t really 125 either. Even on the GW the only real stretches of 125mph is London - Reading - Swindon - Bristol Parkway, beyond that you don’t get to 125 on diesel, Berks and Hants is too hilly for 125mph, beyond Exeter you don’t get above like 90mph. Cotswold isn’t 125 either, apart from the midland mainline and the XC core there isn’t any unelectrified routes where there is a lot of 125mph action . Only place where diesel would be needed is the MML as wires haven’t gotten to Leicester and beyond Leicester there is a brief 125mph stint.

 

If it is ECML, I'm hoping for 91's more than 800s. Make the 800s dlc

 

Yes, all the 125 stretches of the ECML are electrified so ours, especially the /2s don't need to work too hard at all really. I don't sign up to Harrogate but I do to Lincoln and although you know you're not on the juice they are still much nippier than a HST. Again I don't sign them up in Scotland so can't comment on performance up there but they certainly aren't hitting 125! I'll be honest my GW and MML knowledge isn't great so you hold the ace there. I also believe the 810s will be fitted with 5 engines (one per coach) to give them a bit more go, but that could be my dodgy memory. They certainly are a good bunch of units which are proving to be more and more popular too.

 

I mean personally the Deltics would be my choice but the 91s are lovely too.

 

I would worry about the deltics coming to TSW. Purely because the 37s sound a bit naff , so feel as though the deltics wouldn't be given the justice they deserve

 

on the other hand I think most of the other BR diesels sound bliss, so hopefully that would be the outcome.

 

A good sounding diesel….no better sound in the land

 

Absolutely right mate, nothing beats the sound from a good diesel!

 

They also included the /1s, albeit only some of them to use as extra units in service mode. They're not actually accurate /1s though so I don't think they count.

 

I did the class 700 scenario from TrainGeek08 today and whilst it was a nice easy drive, the sound of the 700 is poles apart from that of a good diesel. I find the sound adds real depth to the experience, so for me it’s diesels first and foremost

 

Absolutely agree, the diesels sound a lot more meaningful than the buzz of a 700 or 377 and they noise they make really does bump up the immersion. I love my 80xs to the moon and back but I would take a Deltic over them any day of the week!

 

The diesels just tend to give me a headache lol, at least the older 1st gen ones. I'd be driving the Class 37 a lot more otherwise.

 

Haha, yes they are very loud! The issue is that if you turn them down you lose that immersion so it is a big decision to make! Have you tried the 45s, 47s or 33s as I find their engines are a lot less head ache inducing that the EE engines.

 

I've been thinking a bit.
I dont think it would be TSW 4 as it wouldn't fit with the 2 year gap. However, I do reckon this would be (and I will use the term loosely) a season pass of sorts.
Like rush hour was.
3 routes but centered around steam.
ECML and scotsman as its pretty evident (scotsman anyway),
A German and American. Forgive me but my knowledge on US and German steam isn't great.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but when rush hour was released, couldn't we preorder in 1 "season pass" to get all 3 as well as individually?

Again, I'm purely speculating and could be completely wrong

 

Lol, I think it’s an age thing for me. I grew up in a diesel era and love the sound partially for the memories it gives me. I do feel like I’ve contributed to the journey as well in a diesel, the electric trains with push/pull single power levers are fairly straightforward after a while.

 

Yes this has been my underlying thought all along but everyone else seems set on TSW4. I would put a pukka pie, two pints and a packet of pork scratching's on this being what happens.

 

I think anything is possible at the moment, so you may well be onto something. Personally, I’m uk routes and diesel so I’ll be a bit gutted if it’s all steam I think most people would agree that ECML would be a welcome addition.
Not long now til we all finally find out !

 

It wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, members of the community have been asking for German and US steam since SoS.
If this is the case, I can sense the disappointment of not having a modern day ECML