Dovetail Direct Live Stream Reaction

Overall feelings:

* Vorarlberg:
* OEBB 4024:
* Lack of any other OEBB train:
* Potential layers:

* ECML:
* Choice of section:
* Azuma:
* Layering:

* Antelope Route:
* Vectron:

* Scotsman:
* Lack of dining car (again):

* Scenario planner improvements:
* Only with new routes (?):

* Livery editor improvements:
* Livery toggling:

* General Gameplay improvements:
* Photo mode:
* Free roam:
* Haptics:
* Scoring:

* Editor:
* PC-only:

* Preston - Ormskirk:
* 142:
* Layering:

* Roadmap:

 

This should have been just like a TSC update. You can buy the game and get the routes, but everyone else on TSW3 should have received a core update to TSW4 regardless. There is simply nothing there that is worth paying for, or remotely justifies being a ‘new game’. The TSW2 - TSW3 move was massive compared to the TSW3 - TSW4 change. It’s a joke to people who’ve been here since the beginning.

A second paywall in 2 years is beyond my own personal BS tipping point and I won’t take part in it. I wonder how Just Train’s really feel about all the lost sales as a consequence of their route being locked behind a paywall?

 

I have followed RS.com aka Dovetail Games for a very long time and it always seems that there are two opposite realities in the company:

Ownership and Board Level ("the leeches")
From the total company income of 2022, developers received £7M in salaries, whereas the owners took home £2.7M in dividends. Moreover, many board members expanded their shareholding in the company, with compensations and options amounting to £0.7M. To put this in perspective, from every £50 DLC, £25 goes towards developer + board salaries, and £12 is allocated for dividends and board compensations. Upon reviewing the public list of the board of directors from Company House, it's notable that most of them have no evident connection to railways or fishing. Moreover, I found few justifications for their board positions, except for potential familial ties to current or former board members. It's questionable whether these individuals genuinely share the interests and passions central to us.

Developer Level ("the enthusiasts")
This is the heart and soul of the company. In 2022, the company reported having 188 active employees. If you break down the £7M salary among them, the average salary per developer doesn't appear to be particularly high especially if the board salaries are removed. These developers, like Matt, are genuinely passionate about the hobby. However, they might be significantly constrained in implementing changes that would truly benefit the hobby due to decisions made at higher levels. A testament to their dedication is the introduction of the editor, a feature that might not immediately boost the company's revenue or appease the board, but serves the user community well.

 

Very little interest in the routes with TSW4 however full credit to Matt and team for an editor release. I may have complained many times that this was expected a while ago but should be a game changer. Hats off for that.

 

I think it was when rush hour released.

 

Sorry but right now you're not loyal you are chaotic

 

I understand that you are upset but DTG can't please everyone. Like I said in your topic, I want to see what TSW4 brings before I join the angry mob and I'm actually very pleased with what I saw. Sure there is still stuff in there that was not addressed that will get me moaning once I get my hands on TSW4. Matt surely hasn't heard the last of me about stutters and passengers which were top on my list but there was enough candy to soften that blow.

I think DTG has tried to please everyone. They did fail to please you so I do feel for you.

 

Still stunned from what has to be the best most positive summer update ever. So much to take in, so many questions...!
Curious to know if creators will be able to extend existing routes.

 

At least the Metrolink partnership opens up the LA area for future routes, including the highly requested Amtrak Pacific Surfliner route, however expectations for Antelope Valley are a bit low for me ATM.

-Just 1 new train and carset, shame the MP36 and Bi-Levels couldn't been reused.
-Incorrect freight layers, BNSF doesn't not run on this trackage, Union Pacific does.
-Looks like UP's LATC yard isn't represented, though the shots are too far to confirm.

We'll see how much one can actually do with this route in free roam and such.....

Also wish for regional bundles, since this is the only route I remotely care about....

 

Excuse me, but while I do find Mattty might go a bit overboard, though still entitled to their own opinions, of course. Who cares about being loyal?
Are you not supposed to look at things critically?
I'm calling out DTG because I want to see them do better and not ruin something as great as Train Sim World.

 

Disappointed with the new routes announced, but I realise that’s my problem. They can’t please everyone.
There’s a few features that look promising but not sure it’s worth the price for that alone.

What would’ve made the difference for me is improved lighting, passenger behaviour, better draw distance, improved train and track audio and realistic onboard and platform announcements. Surely realism and immersion is more important than scoring systems and shiny medals etc?

 

Mind the door on the way out mate.

 

Regardless of whether the new updates "justify a new game" or not, it's still incredibly disappointing that incompletable / bugged route tasks and scenarios, red light bugs, etc will remain unfixed on DLCs that sometimes cost as much as a standard game (~$60AUD).

I think I've seen some people on here say that some bugs that existed when TSW3 came out are still unfixed.
It also sucks a lot for anyone who recently bought TSW3 with the sales and that it's losing support after just over a year.

EDIT: Also for those asking, it will NOT be on game pass.

 

3 routes thats come with one new loco each
Vectron comes with deluxe
Flying Scotsman with deluxe.
Some players were dreaming of two or even 3 locos per route .
Well I’m not surprised but disappointment. The best looks to be the Austrian route

 

Was the "Route Extension" caption clearly visible during the ECML part of the stream meant for Dresden-Riesa (e.g. inclusion of the community much-wanted S2 branch from Neustadt to Flughafen in addition to the announced TOD4 update and Vectron layer)?

 

DTG Matt Thank you for answering my query before, very helpful.

Are there any more performance fixes coming to consoles around some of the terrain pop in and shadows at all with TSW4?

 

Great question. Add improvements to the micro stuttering too.

 

It

It was ever thus. The inconsistent view is that it would ever be different.

 

Ouch! Guess I'm out for the time being. Looking forward to some day driving the heck out of DRA again, but I'm in no hurry.

 

could content appear in future on the roadmap or is everything thats on it now the only things that will released in their sections

 

I'm so underwhelmed it's unbelievable regarding the TSW 4 base routes - there's hardly anything here that excites me, if at all being honest, compared to previous editions of TSW. Ironically, the Vectron and TOD 4-updated Riesa-Dresden is the most interesting...

Was really hoping route-wise and content that TSW 4 would offer something really interesting, but instead there's:

- Voralberg: 44 miles potentially with just one EMU for the bulk of services; really hope there's a lot of extra content that can be used, so far they've mentioned the Vectron and in the stream I noticed a RABe 523, but really hoping there needs to be more. Was hoping a new Austrian route would be like one of the modern German routes in terms of lots of content and playability.

- Antelope Valley: it's a long passenger route without tunnels which is great, but from what it seems there's very limited services and single track which makes me wonder what the long-term playability is - I'm thinking what about the LAMP system? Will LA actually be busy, or mainly empty? Where's the MP36H, surely can't be just the F125!

- Peterborough-Doncaster: Very disappointing overall. Just 5 stations with mainly high-speed services; are these stations too going to all be mostly empty - well Peterborough will have the Class 700, yet ironically the /0 doesn't even serve here in real life as the Horsham services are all exclusively the /1. Really wanted ECML South, as the Azuma could have been complemented by the Class 700, 387 and so on.

 

It’s an interesting move just one year after TSW3 was announced.
I’m hoping the change to TSW4 opens better opportunities as it does seem that many of the linear things in TSW2/3 have been overcome with TSW4 (mixing consists on any route, more flexible scenario planner, route editor etc)

Maybe this was essential to enable extending existing routes as this has also been widely wanted by the community and has been seen as not being possible in TSW2/3?

Regarding the editor on console, I play on console and it is quite disappointing, However, I totally understand why it’s not going to be included. It would be a huge task to implement this as all this type of programming is carried out on PC I can’t think of anywhere where a console could perform tasks in what is PC only software I’m no programmer but I think it would have the same parallels as getting TSC ported over to console.

I do hope however TSW3 continues to be supported so that players who cannot upgrade for whatever reason or indeed do not wish to upgrade, get the current software fixed as was said previously.

 

Just out of interest, I noticed that only the base version is available to pre-order on the Xbox store (with 20% discount). Why isn’t the deluxe version?

 

I see both (and the special edition), on the Canadian Xbox store at least.

 

Question on the editor. Can you edit scenery on Existing routes? So place more trees/clutter, or lay track extensions?

 

I had to look for it as only the base version came up when searching Train Sim World 4. Select that and you should be able to find the other editions.

 

The LA route does look interesting, and the F125 is certainly…unique looking.

The only comment I have on it is, could this route style not of come in the form of Amtrak?

So many US routes are screaming for a P42, and I can’t help but feel this new route gets very close to that remit, just the F125 has less versatility when it comes to layering.

 

"
What is considered a legacy Train Sim World game?
Legacy Train Sim World games are those that are no longer being updated. This includes…

• Train Sim World 2020
• Train Sim World 2
• Train Sim World 3"

 

Happy beta-testing to all of you!

 

Why not a free upgrade like TSC?

Because it's not TSC, it's a different game.

Millions of people pay every year, and I might add for a higher price than TSW4 Deluxe, for sports games and WWE.

And they gladly do it. Just as I will gladly pay again this year.

Video games are the last of my problems in life, I don't need to care to much on ways companies make money.

There alot of other shady business practices that affect peoples lives much worse than games developers to worry about in this world.

 

Wondering whether the "new partner" UK loco release will be a WCML-themed loco pack from Alan Thomson Simulations which could layer onto existing WCML stations, e.g. Preston, Manchester Picc, Birmingham New Street etc. Would be even better if DTG / Alan Thomson released North Wales Coast as their first Welsh route.

Also excited about the possibility of future border routes (alluded to by Lukas) provided that changes to signalling, line voltages etc. are relatively simple.

 

So I’m not happy but to be honest deluxe edition for 3 routes and two locos for 55.99 US dollars on Xbox X is not a bad deal

 

What bothers me too is that, while I welcome Austrian content, and it doesn't sound like a bad route. When there's this call from a large part of the community for DTG to finally venture out of their comfort zone and actually look at new countries, Austria seems about as uninspired as it gets considering both Germany and Switzerland already exist.

Again, I welcome Austrian content, but that "new country" itch is very far from being scratched.
Even France would've scratched that itch better, considering the LGV doesn't really represent the standard French network.

At least it's done in place of the full German route for this one so it's not taking the place of what could've been the release of an actually refreshing new country, unlike the Austrian one in the roadmap.

 

Ain't been able to watch the stream yet, due to horrible retail work ...

Did they mention at all whether trophy support on PS4/5 is continuing?

 

"
Will Train Sim World 3 continue to receive updates?
There will be a short window after the release of Train Sim World 4 where Train Sim World 3 will receive updates focused on improvements to tutorials, and the Trenton – New York timetable. After this time, there will be no further updates."

This time next year the folks who are currently saying its fine, they're buying etc will be looking all confused at the pile of expensive abandonware they've accumulated.

This is actually kind of entertaining..

 

After what happened with TSW2, I would highly doubt every promise made in the TSW4 roadmap and TSW3 support.

I mean... where are the TSW2 fixes that were promised more than a year ago? Why should I believe in a NY-Trenton update coming for TSW3? And Scenario Planner 2.0 and Livery Designer 2.0 were originally promised for TSW2 as well. The Editor was also originally promised way back for TSW1. So why should I believe it when I read thes will do an Editor v2 and Editor v3 update for TSW4?

I mean this is a great roadmap plan, if they actually keep their promises. But knowing their track record, I would not hold my hopes up...

 

Agreed, it's nice to see Austria and out of the TSW 4 routes, Voralberg at this current time is by far the most interesting for me. But, this random, mostly S-Bahn route doesn't feel iconic enough for a TSW 4 launch route if honest; if they want a brand-new Austrian route, then it really has to be like the modern German routes with lots of locos, variety of passenger, freight and/or high-speed services with a lot of interesting, long-term gameplay serving large, well-known cities. Also, agree about France, or maybe even the Netherlands which always seems to be much-requested.

 

Just finished watching the stream.
Did I miss anything? Because, I failed to spot the DB BR 420 by TSG during the ‘roadmap’ presentation part.
I’m curious if the omission was by mistake or intentional. As I was quite excited for it.

 

That's disgusting, what the actual...
I guess, at least they're not stringing people along like they did with TSW2 and all the updates that were promised there. This time, it's an honest "eff you, pay us." What a mess.

I probably won't be buying any new routes for the foreseeable future. Realistically, I've got enough content I've not yet played that could last me a year no problem.

 

I do not actually believe TSW3 will see the updated NY-Trenton timetable.

 

Nope, you didn't miss it. I didn't see it either. I was also looking forward to maybe some more info on the ATS route and the Japan / China route (everything has gone quite on these).

 

Don't worry, I bet they will get released right after the New York - Trenton update for TSW3!

/s

 

At least they are being honest this time re TSW 3 updates. Look at last time with some people holding onto the hope with the TSW 2 updates. You may not like that they won't support TSW3 much longer but at least its' honest.

 

Ah right, thanks for confirming.
I really do hope it wasn’t deliberate. Though, it does seem like a missed opportunity.

 

Question will TSW4 be on Xbox game pass?

 

Nope. That's in the FAQ's. Also TSW3 will be coming off game pass on 1st sep

 

My feelings are very much in line with yours on this. If I were interested in all three routes, I would be perfectly happy to buy them at a considerably higher price than the new game release. I don't love the DLC prices for TSW, but I can live with them. It's the fact that I'm compelled to put down that money on that content for continued support for the game I already own, and to be allowed to buy future content that I'm actually interested in, even though it could easily have been content for the existing game. Because I'm not fussed about this new stuff, I probably won't play any of it, except maybe the Scotsman - which I'd happily pay 15 quid or so for as a loco DLC. But I'm interested in the Pacer, which could've been a TSW3 DLC but won't be.

The deeper frustration for me is with performance issues and glitches in TSW3. I have a very capable PC (as in: significantly exceeds the recommended spec) and I still get stutters. I still have that awkward, unsmoothed draw distance in the middle distance (i.e. the one place I'm staring 99% of the time during gameplay). If I can get smooth performance in any new, big-budget title you care to name (hell, my boyfriend can on a 7 year old graphics card and a hard disk drive), what's special about TSW3? If all those things were addressed, as well as the little glitches and things on the routes, well at least I could throw up my hands and go "I'm not dead happy with this, but at least I can stick with TSW3 and have a complete, polished, experience!" But instead I can't help but feel that I just paid another instalment on a game I hope will eventually feel finished. And here I am pondering my own susceptibility to the sunk cost fallacy again. Will it all be sorted out and work nicely this time? Were it just about future content, I would be irked but I'd live with it, but it's the things that now won't be addressed in the previous full-priced game that many people bought (and, one might argue, the last two) that takes this beyond just a business decision I personally disagree with, for me.

We've got great devs who obviously love what they do, why not let them continue to improve upon this fine game we have (and, as usual, create a couple hundred pounds worth of DLC annually!) instead of wasting everyone's time and money on a new coat of paint for something that isn't new?

 

DTG haven't brought out a route with two or more new locos since Tees Valley (except SOS, which was a special case)

 

Yea true . After seeing the price with 20% off for everything you get on the deluxe version is a good deal. I’m not happy with some of the routes but overall I think is a good price