Why Is Their No "upgrade" Version Of Tsw4?

Dear DTG,

as a long time customer having TSC, TSW, TSW2 and TSW3 why don't you give people which have TSW3 already something like an upgrade only version? No routes, just the pure core-update.

Include it in early access as well, because the ppl. deserve it and make it around 15-20 Euros. People can use the content they already have and upgrade to the next version of TSW. That at least would help you generate money for you and maybe ppl. would be more relaxed with a paid upgraded version where they have to put some money into.

 

I too would like TSW4 to get the new Just Trains route but I have very little interest in the 3 routes that come with TSW4. I'm not saying they are bad, just I'm not interested.

It felt different for TSW3 as I didn't own SEHS and I was interested in Cajon pass so it was quite a good deal.

I would be happy to pay a few pounds just to access the new scenario planner tools and consist editor.

 

I believe this discussion is the same as one year ago with the same answer... it isn't free and you have to pay for it.... or if you own DRA you get the TSW4 upgrade for free

 

I wrote that I'm willing to pay, that was exactly my question. Why is their no option to just upgrade for 15-20 Euros to get the new core features for people who already own TSW3. Yes I own DRA, yes I would get a free upgrade to a route I paid full price for back in the day. But I don't see a problem here.

 

Well I guess you wait for the Xmas sale when one of the starter packs will be 40% off, ergo 20 or so Euros!

 

What? I will get free TSW 4 just for having DRA in my collection? Who says you this nonsense?

 

Sure that is an option to wait for it. It is just something I would like to see added, limited time offer for long time customers, let's say until end of october "Upgrade your TSW3 collection to TSW4 core features - just 19,99!"

He meant that the DRA upgrade is "free" when you own DRA and TSW4. Otherwise you would have to buy TSW4 + DRA or the package that includes DRA.

 

I do agree with the upgrade version but as I understand it the training centre is the upgrade. Selling the training centre separately sounds confusing for people who just start out with TSW. They should repackage the training centre to something that can be sold as an upgrade-only

 

Wasn't the training center the selling point for TSW3? Did I miss something in the TSW4 announcement?

 

That's obvious for me.

 

Sorry I mean the lightning update off course

 

Yeah that's not the case but if you make a balance... you get the Deluxe edition for 48€ that's 1 route + 11€ that's a very low and fair price... I don't understand this discussion about pricing. But that's more my opinion....

 

Yes but you always needed the training centre to upgrade to TSW3. In TSW4 it's again mentioned as part of the stuff you get when you buy TSW4. So I'm guessing it's the same with TSW 4 where the training centre is some kind of core to the game

 

Have a look at this- core game is free to play. I offer it as an example of what is possible not from a technical perspective, but from a business model perspective.
DCS World Steam Edition on Steam (steampowered.com)

 

I always avoid free to play games. I was looking at the pricing and immediately went into unruly customer mode. It looks very expensive but probably when you explain the pricing it sounds reasonable.

 

I'm not complaining about the pricing itself, I'm not interested in any of the new routes at all. I just would like to have the option to make an upgrade to TSW4 and enjoy my beloved DRA with the new features. DRA and Editor are the only selling points for me in the end. I like the new HUD, I like that we have new rain effects and volumetric fog but it is nothing like a selling point. OHLE upgrade is one of the biggest + for me as this is something that really annoyes me with the current routes. Also it does "for me" only come to my eyes currently with DRA and KWB. Not for my beloved Rheinstrecke for example.

So yes the upgrade price itself is OK even for the bigger editions, but as said, I'm not interested in the stuff, so I would have liked just the core update to be able to buy new routes in the future and enjoy at least some of the new additions.

The pricing is simple to explain, if you for example buy the F-14 Tomcat it is like buying a AAA game with hundreds of hours of playtime and fun. You will also get lifetime updates for your Tomcat. The pricing in flight sims is different to train sims. If you play MSFS for example a good plane costs you 70+€ that is the normal price. But you get a study sim aircraft like you get in DCS as well. The aim is not to have "all" aircraft but to study and fly the one / the ones you own. Hundreds of pages manuals and a steep learning curve. It is a hardcore simulation.

 

I don't think anyone has the cognitive capacity to buy every dlc in DCS and actually have the ability to fly them all. I only own 1 aircraft and a couple of mission packs.
But this is off topic. Its much more a general point about the separation of core and add ons.

 

TSC, DCS, ETS2 - core updates free, new content paid for
FIFA xx, Football Manager 20xx, WWE 2Kxx- yearly paid update, majority of new content included free (WWE does have some DLC but a majority of the current roster is included with the base game)

TSW - yearly paid updates AND new "content" paid for
Best of both worlds

 

I second this, so far the biggest concern I have about TSW4 are the routes, all of which don't interest me at all, all of them for the single reason of missing rolling stock variety. After all these years of the TSW franchise 1- or even 2-train routes really should be a thing of the past - especially if apropriate rolling stock like the Taurus and MP36 are already basically available - as they're not immersive at all (imo) and we have enough positives examples of a higher rolling stock variety in existing DLCs as well.
Of course details will follow - it was more than enough information yesterday anyway - and are maybe about to change, but as it stands none of TSW4s routes would appeal me at all because I found myself completely avoiding the empty-main-station-1-train- routes in the last year. I made the 'mistake' buying TSW3 deluxe out of euphoria thinking I would find enough justifiable enjoyment in the routes I was not really interested in (SOS, Cajon Pass) but that was not the case.
So a TSW4 basic edition without any of the starter routes would also be my choice as well... personally I hope I'm getting proved wrong on the variety side and loads of layers get implemented but since then the starter routes seem too basic for me...

 

Maybe cause you sell the patch and people don't like that fact? Nah... the problem somewhere else. Not enough repaints maybe?

 

But we already have the game. A lot of us don't want the routes in the pre order discount bundle of which future content is locked behind.
Not a great idea or look tbh.

 

So basicly DTG failed in communicating it better and threfore the customer needs to buy routes they don't want in order to get access to updates and future routes ... did I get it right?

 

It’s because the whole shooting match is unnecessarily complicated. I’ve no doubt it’s deliberate, why else would it have been done this way?

It could have been done nice and simply as follows (prices purely as an example);

- TSW4 is released as a new game with 3 new routes and whatever locos. Price £50
- All existing TSW3 owners automatically migrate to TSW4 core. No new routes or locos. Price £0. Heck, put creators club 2.0 behind an optional paywall. Price £5.
- Existing TSW3 owners can buy the route bundle for £30 or the route and loco bundle for £40

Nice and easy. TSW3 retires gracefully in to the sunset. Everyone’s happy, no one is locked out of future purchases and so on. But no, not in DTG world.

Straight question; Is it right or fair that to buy the new Just Trains route I have to spend a minimum of £60? If that is fair, why is it fair?

 

Be constructive: pitch ideas on how an upgrade pack can be user friendly in stores

 

No, the problem was that it is literally just a paid patch. An unnecessary paywall.

Release the core update and bugfixes for free and everyone would be happy. With the current trend it pretty much does not worth it to buy any add-ons, because by the time they recieve any patches, you are forced to buy the next game release. As a customer, I am advised to hold back my purchase and wait years before buying content. How is that a winner sales tactic?

 

Of course not. Now DTGName will come and say that after release you can buy a version with only one core route, and it will cost you less.

 

There is absolutely no need. DTG have been doing it with TSC since day 1, and they did it with TSW when they migrated from CSX:HH to TSW2020 (I think) and TSW2 to TSW2: Rush Hour (I’m certain)

Where we are today is a conscious decision by DTG, no other conclusion can be drawn. You can see it in that post; “We are forcing you to buy the new game but we’re offering you a discount”. It sucks.

 

Why they can't make the TSW3 core Training Center free for Game Pass users who purchased add-ons? That would be good customer service. Like if you bought Birmingham on its own but not in the starter pack with Training Center (same price), you are going to be unable to purchase TSW3 digitally once it is de-listed/removed from Game Pass. It's not even a year since TSW3 was released. It really should've been an update and rename to the existing game. You're going to have to pay out for TSW4 or find a used TSW3 disc to continue playing.

 

I have refrained until now talking about TSC as there are a lot of TSC users on this forum and don't want to insult them but I don't get these comparison with TSC. After I got to know TSW I had a brief look (not played it) and found it totally not appealing. Way too nerdy for me to enjoy. So comparing TSW to TSC to me is telling me a game should be more like a game I don't want. I would never buy such game so don't pitch it to me

I get the passion from the TSC players but to me TSW is a totally different game.

 

The mention of TSC is nothing to do with how it plays but with how it's marketed. I've got no interest in FIFA or DCS but the comparisons around yearly updates funding development vs DLC funding development (and TSW now using both) are completely valid.

 

That noise you just heard was the point of that post passing directly overhead.

 

I know, mine passed yours. They didn't collide so that's a relief

 

What I just realised is, that you don't provide discounts for the game but for 3 routes, which we haven't seen yet, and demand trust in DTG that they will be any good.
So again, I really don't see a problem with a core package for a reasonable price except not communicating its purpose and content transparently. Besides, the structure of pricing you've created is abysmaly bad. I see the challenges you have with all the different platforms, but man it can't get more complicated. I see why buyers are confused.

 

No it didn’t.

You suggested I be constructive and present ideas as to how they make an upgrade pack user friendly in stores. I replied saying that there was no need, as they’ve been doing exactly that since day 1 with TSC and have definitely done it once, if not twice, with TSW. You then replied with a post about TSC being nerdy which clearly bore no resemblance to the point I made.

I’m assuming (of nothing other than your username) that you’re translating what I’m saying so it’s possible something got misinterpreted there. FWIW you’re also totally misunderstanding what VictoryWorks is saying.

 

It doesn't matter how it plays. It's not the sort of game I want. So how it's supported is of no relevance to the game I want to play.

I get free upgrades for my iPhone as well. No relevance to TSW

 

Hey, DTG, did you hear the Microsoft provides you the free update from Win 10 to Win 11? What a waste of resources!

 

You still use the first cell phone you ever had? You never bought a new one with upgrades ?

 

The relevance is in the context of how a business provides a core platform on which consumables are then sold. In the case of a phone, its the hardware core, connection contracts and apps. In the case of TSW its the core game (which we already own and are being asked to purchase again) and DLC.

 

That's probably because I wanted to play nice and deleted a sentence from that post before hitting Post Reply. "Go play TSC if it's better supported than TSW"

We want different things from TSW that's what you are missing.

 

DTG-Chris

Still waiting….

 

Ok, now you’re doing this intentionally. Read the posts again, carefully.

TSC has got nothing to do with this. The method of delivery for the annual updates to TSC absolutely has.

 

Exactly. TSC has nothing to do with this so it's not the right pitch

 

So if the TSW FUNDING MODEL (bold and caps because THAT is what we're talking about, not how the game plays!) gets compared to FIFA (yearly update) and ETS2 (DLC) are you going to complain that you don't want footballers in TSW and trucks won't work on the rails?

 

I didn’t have you down as troll. Now we know.

 

I would argue I don't like EA practices and not looking for a kind of lootbox style business model

 

Troll? Is the new definition of troll "someone who does not agree with you"?

I respect you for your work but I don't admire your social skills.

 

Time to leave the ping pong point scoring alone now tbh. Either that or you both risk losing credibility.

 

Not at all. It’s not about agreeing or disagreeing, there’s nothing to agree or disagree with. I’ve stated an indisputable fact, you’ve gone off into another dimension.

sunscreen#8305 I’m past caring to be honest.

 

There is something to agree or disagree about: Do you like what is presented or not. You are clearly not? I am.

Someone asks on the forum why there is no upgrade pack and your answer is that there doesn't need to be one because another game you play doesn't have one either. Where is the fact? It's an opinion!