Stop Posting Entitlement "it Should Be Free Update" Posts Please!!

Sad that they will be bringing down the reputation of their new owners like this. It's one thing to be a laughing stock company, but to drag another down to their level is just sad.

 

Considering the 1x route now is way overpriced at $54 AUS, then this is in fact a good deal that includes 3x routes.

 

Regarding my previous posts, I must correct direction of my upset, it is not the money issue (tsw4 deluxe is a good deal), IT is the case of DTG making minimal or none efforts to improve their past, current and coming products and assurance that they will eventually leave everything behind with no hesitation with this is fire&forget marketing. And me personally feel that tsw is aiming into pseudosim category (ease of acses, no new physic, etc.).

 

If history is any indicator, the 3 routes will feature scenery flying in your face, popping up out of nowhere as you pass by it, and nauseatingly stuttery frame rates throughout. Oh! But look! We enabled a new rain texture that will probably make your game run even worse. But buy it now! Pre-order it even! We need an army of beta testers that give us money to test our stuff for us! We may even patch some of those problems! (in the next version that you will pay us for).

 

The problem I see there is not a yearly new version to be purchased in general, but the fact, that every owned content has to be redownloaded. Thats crazy, especially if you own loads of old content. Last year, it took nearly a day to redownload the TSW2-content, although I owned significantly less than now because of the lack of an addons-manager back then. After the release of the manager, I bought every missing item for TSW3. On 19th of September I will have to redownload all of that! Thats bogus! And if there would be a TSW5 someday, in that system we would have to redownload the whole content of TSW1,2,3 and 4...
So why not release every new version as (if it must be) chargeable core-update for all players who own the last version. This update should contain the features announced yesterday and establish compatibility of the older content. The new rotes can be purchased as seperate addons.
DTG Matt DTG JD DTG Alex DTG Lukas and the other staff members, please consider this suggestion for possible further new versions, because the status quo is simply absurd.

 

Ah yes, the "entitlement" of people who paid for an IOU for TSW2 bugfixes, and are now being asked to pay AGAIN for that same IOU.

 

If history is an indicator we do this on repeat. Not pointing at you, I do this myself. Complain, say you had enough and then buy it because yeah it's trains and the trains look good. I even bought the NYC route because it was on sale and did not play it. It's a gamble. If I'm lucky I will have a cool NYC route as well in September but I doubt it will be like others routes that to my surprise got very impressive updates in TSW3

I guess almost everyone who preordered on this forum is expecting a mess at launch.

 

Exactly this. From the posts I've seen so far, anyone thinking that some are simply asking for free content are missing the point being made. We already paid for a product 1, 2, 3 times that still has issues being pushed back and back, always "on the radar", yet always disappearing off the edge of it and reappearing over there, where you're lured over with the same promises – and you'll have to put your money where your blind faith is, otherwise you definitely won't get those overdue fixes.

 

I'm not gonna argue with that but I also feel it comes down to expectations. People who refused to belief it was coming got a double whammy. People that expected certain routes are now furious because they don't like the routes, people who wanted a feature that is not in TSW4 want to know why a feature that did make it was deemed popular...

Then there are people like me who have to sell the rotten tomatoes they bought because there is nothing to throw at. If the goal was to silence me I can only say mission accomplished, here is my wallet.

 

Hahahahahahhaha I can’t believe this is happening again!

I only purchased Kassel-Wurzburg for that specific route and just used TSW3 through GamePass as I already owned TSW2 SEHS.
I had a feeling they would do this again, so I was never going to actually pay money for the base game; which is probably why TSW won’t be on Game Pass at all now.

I’ve been around since TSW2020, so I’ve had my fair share of poor update support from this company. Charging for the base game when it only guarantees 12 months of bug fixes is ridiculous though, and is why I am no longer a customer even though I really like the routes and locos that have and are being released.

Those that think it’s about the price of the game or the three routes themselves don’t actually get the point. Bug fixes in a video game aren’t meant to be conditional on re-buying the base game every year. People are furious at the thought of paying for promised product support.

 

My expectations are simple: I expect the original product I purchased to work as it was supposed to, and, if not immediately, then to be made good via free patches to said product. E.g. when I joined here simply to kick up a fuss about my discovery that save game resulted in permanent red lights (= me completely wasting my very limited snatches of time) and that this had been an issue for several years with no attention given to it, I didn't expect the response to be, "We've finally listened, we absolutely understand your frustration, so we've sort of fixed it we think, now pay us for TSW3 because that's the only way you'll be getting your hands on the sort of, kinda, maybe fixed save game."

 

That's also a way of looking at things but if you really want promises kept you need to have a contract. I don't know what is in the user agreement of TSW (I lie and say I read it and forgot what's in it ) But DTG made me agree to stuff when I started playing their game not the other way around.

You buy into a promise but there is no legal agreement that promise will be kept. On Tuesday DTG told us a story (a promise as you called it). I like the story so I'm buying into that story. It's a gamble. Maybe next year I'm not buying into the story anymore because the promise wasn't kept.

Last year I heard a story about consoles. TSW3 would also be more accessible to consoles. They did some stuff but it felt like a broken promise. I was expecting a demo of yet another PC filled feature fest and consoles would all be forgotten about but to my surprise much of my console needs are still being addressed. So for me the story continues. I know once quantum computers become all the rage I and my console will be forgotten by DTG but in the meanwhile I don't feel like a forgotten customer.

 

I have no issue paying for a new product, providing the product is then supported for a reasonable period of time and promises are kept with regards to updates and core support, hence purchasing TSW3.

What I do have a real issue with is a developer releasing a product last year, at cost, and promising the world and barely delivering in places and then going deathly silent on us for the last month because they knew how the reaction would be, to then want to charge us £80 for the same merry-go-round to happen all over again and us, the consumer feeling thoroughly let down and left with a product that is substandard.

I want to support dovetail and TSW I really do, but I really feel this behaviour is disgusting. Sorry I do, it's sly, it's underhand and you want me to pay for this feeling of being let down? As others have said, what's to stop this cycle from happening over and over?

What frustrates me the most, it honestly feels like they're sitting there laughing at us all. It's such a bad taste that's left that I really don't think we can trust a single word they say, other then that they want our money

 

I'm happy to say I've kept my word and haven't bought anything TSW3 onwards. I waited to see if DTG kept their promise to fix the TSW2 content (also TSW3 ran like garbage as I tried it off and on on GamePass). Their latest FAQ proved that my gut instinct was correct. They are a company to stay away from. Deceitful tactics and conning impressionable people is a disgusting way to conduct business. I really hope this version falls flat and Focus finally shuts down this farce of a company.

 

I have picked up that people would have bought 3 new routes WITHOUT a core update, for the same price. Yet these people complain about 'being forced' to purchase new routes for the core update.

I think honestly it has nothing to do with Focus or DTG or bugs (I don't see them and don't see them on my windscreen even and I am playing Glossop everyday) but the the people that are complaining.

Can't you be grateful for once?

By the sounds of some of the posts here hoping a game fails, sounds like you need to take a break at the very least.

Or you are just trying to cause discontent.

Some of you are more responsible than that.

I have bought things on Steam and I don't play them everyday.

If I get disillusioned with something I'll leave it for a while.

But to be honest I have games like Cities Skylines (and EA's Sim city) Arma and flight sim. But TSW get's my attention and the playability is excellent.

I bought Midland Mainline within days of release due all the complaints and I have enjoyed it immensely.

Yes it is true people have different perspectives.

So when I read comments full of negativity and complaints I am suspect of the intentions of the person.

If it points out a problem I have not seen I am willing to help the person but honestly in the last 3 months DTG has been outspoken in their announcements to fix things. The sim is not broken. I can play every route.

The only thing I can think is wrong is on my FAVOURITE route, Dresden Riesa, the tutorial on the BR112 (I may be wrong it might be a later locomotive) cannot be finished where you have to leave the station on the mainline yet there is a red light.

I have tried to build a route from scratch in TSC for Australia and it is daunting. And hard work.

Honestly though the amount of work DTG puts in is phenomenal. I will try to learn the editor slowly but I think crowdfunding might suit some countries like my own.

For the price to get foreign content with locomotives and equipment that I am somewhat familiar in real life, it is not only excellent value for money but I can tell the passion of the developers.

I hope those of you that haven't been able to enjoy the game can start enjoying it.

I found Bakerloo was a good start. Frequent stopping and variety of scenery, under and above ground. Underground stations are gorgeous too.

The scenery is great, skybox, weather, lighting and passengers are very compliant (my attempt at humour LOL) and train behaves physically as it does in real life. Also the details, attention to detail. Sounds are excellent! I can never go back to TSC. I spend all my time on Train Sim World now. I hope they start putting easter eggs and secret rooms and things around as well for fun. Puzzles too.

Hope the District and Piccadilly lines come soon!

 

You are the one calling people entitled for no valid reason whatsoever. If you enjoy the game, that's fine, but it was clear you didn't understand why people criticized tsw 4 and you called them entitled for just wanted DTG to use the same business model as TSC by giving the core update for free and then just charge for the dlc's since they still would've made money

 

You don't need to download anything. It is your choice to buy TSW4.

If you want TSW4 benefits, like everyone else, you will have to download what you want to play.

If you have a problem with this go sailing, the wind is free!!

 

Grateful?? This is a transaction with a business, they should be grateful to have any customers at all.

We feel so strongly about this because we do enjoy the product so much. When it works it works beautifully.

Your favourite route is Riesa-Dresden? I couldn’t play that route for an entire year after I bought it because it crashed every time I played it. Even after upgrading to an Xbox Series X it still crashes the game from time to time.

People are rightly “ungrateful” because this now yearly paid upgrade cycle means there is zero guarantee that DLC’s will be patched past the first year. The base game is now a 12 month license for DLC support.

 

TSC had such an old engine I think they HAD to give core updates for free.

TSW is so good, they can sell it. I get it.

TSW is not TSC.

 

No need to bother with this guy. He's clearly been hit by a train or something. Perfectly in line for a job as DTG's next ambassador.

 

And you would be happy to pay the same dollar amount if it was called a season pass wouldn't you? I bet.

I also stopped playing Dresden Riesa after release.

I don't have a console but I was getting crashes.

I enjoy this game. I am going to continue to enjoy it. Enjoy.

 

Yet still has more players on steam than tsw. Consoles are essentially the milk for dtg since there are no real alternatives. It's not the only sim that does free core updates you know

 

Yet their track record suggests they have kept their end of the bargain and they release fixes almost every week.

 

If you like TSC so much what are you doing here?

 

And again you miss the point. DTG should make you an ambassador at this point

 

Would be curious to see how Simrail fares once it gets a better single player, more variety in content, and a console release.

 

Every week? What fantasy la la land are you living in? I'm still waiting 12 months for a set of promised updates that will never materialize.

 

That would be the horse to bet on in this space. Hopefully they develop and evolve that game into something special that runs well. Perhaps they will become what we wanted TSW to be (and hopefully be an honest developer).

 

We'll see, right now their player count is below both TSC and TSW but about even with Trainz 19.

 

Buddy, the problem that you keep ignoring is that one of those “benefits” of TSW4 is promised but fixes for routes that are years old now. Why should someone have to pay for a full price game to get a big fix for another full price game they already bought?

 

Fixes we were promised for TSW2 and TSW3, so if they don't show up in TSW4 that's strike 3.

 

Unfortunately we live in times that £40 or thereabouts for being able to get continued support for a game, no matter how much it’s dressed up as a good bundle (which I’m sure it is), is still asking a lot for some people.
As I’ve said countless times in the last 24 hours, they’ve essentially paywalled all future updates and added an extra cost for anyone who isn’t interested in the bundled DLC but might want future DLC. It’ll be the price of TSW4 + DLC that interests customer. Shoddy shoddy business model IMHO.

 

My mind is boggled that you can’t seem to fault them at all. Everyone is presenting fairly valid criticisms yet you’re seeing this all through rose tinted glasses of some sort and are happy to throw money at this company regardless.

 

You are entitled to an opinion. Others are entitled to an opinion. You can't attack people for having a differing opinion just because you think they are wrong. The only reason people are constantly going against you is because you are telling them they are wrong.

 

Quick reminder to stop feeding the trolls.

 

I don’t think it’s even trolls at this point.

 

Court jesters and their freedom of speech ...

 

Hi all
New here. FWIW an overview of DTG's finances is publicly available: https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/06751125/filing-history (tick 'Account'). Unfortunately this gives no information on earnings from "new" game sales vs DLCs.

Look, I was (and still am) pissed off too seeing the TSW4 announcement.

I really, really wish DTG would stop the re-releasing the same-game-with-patches every year or so and do DLCs instead but I don't think that's going to happen. The sole purpose of a company is to maximize profit. I'd love to just have TSW in my steam library and have it updated semi-regulary with new features (imagine steam workshop support with custom trains/routes/etc., would be brilliant) and I buy new DLCs when they come out if I like the look of them. But evidently solely using new DLCs as a revenue stream wasn't working well enough.

Anyone saying it's greedy are fundamentally correct, and it should be expected of any company. And I completely understand their frustration. TSW3 is now abandoned just like TSW and TSW2. Everyone who purchased TSW1, 2 & 3 won't get bug fixes, new features, or new DLCs.

The people mentioning ETS2/ATS have a point, however I think train sims are just... even more niche than truck sims (ETS2 in-game count blows TSWs out the water, there are many more truck drivers IRL than train drivers) so maybe revenue from solely DLCs is just not feasible. But applying Occam's razor to the decisions a company makes is generally the best approach as they'll never make any sort of statement acknowledging their business model. Companies are not your friends.

Re-release same game = MORE money. More DLCs = ample money but not enough!

Right now what they're doing works and keeps the bottom line happy, people give them more and more money each year.

 

See ya later!!

 

None of your business what he is doing here. There are moderators to police the forum and you are not one of them. Pure definition of wokeness, only your opinion counts and nobody else is entitled to air theirs.

 

To all those complaining...

We don't need to hear it. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

At the end of the day, who knows if "TSW4" will have the fixes promised for TSW2/3. It may, it may not. Only once you have seen for yourself can you complain about it

 

They have every right to make their voices heard though on other aspects. Not really sure what detriment it brings to you or others.

 

People can complain about whatever they want as paying customers, it is a basic human right. In addition the OP appears to be complaining about people complaining lol. It's ok to be a DTG fanboy but don't turn on the customer base like you're some banana republic dictator please. Thank you. Have you thought many of the players might not want all 3 routes? Not everyone is made of money you know.

 

Because every 2nd thread/post I've read today has been some sort of complaint maybe?

I'd much rather see fulfilling discussions around the positive aspects.

 

How entertaining this thread is.

 

You have every right to make positive threads and comments. Just like everyone else has the right to make negative threads and comments. If you feel like the majority of posts is complaining, well maybe it is because DTG once again disappointed a big portion of the community. Do you think people are complaining for fun?

 

You can get the updates as long as you buy something each year which contains the core or base of that year's game. At this point it might as well have a paid subscription model. If you don't keep up your payments then you won't get anything, even fixes to defective software.

I don't like the model, there is no need for it, a summer release like Rush Hour with 3 new routes would still generate extra pennies due to the good value of buying multiple routes once, they could even do a pick your own 3 for £30 offer. Especially now - as Roadmap part 2 says - the core is more stable following the UE updates. Seems like the perfect time to stop this annual subscription payment being required.

 

Even a subscription model would make more sense than whatever this is, as at least with a subscription model you would keep the same game. Right now they are just trashing the game stores with endless re-releases. I don't need 4 different TSWs in my Steam library. I would like just one, thank you.

 

That's the thing. DTG refuses to be honest with customers and tell them how the model works / will work in the future. If they came out and said each year (or whenever) you will need to buy a base version to keep your older content getting updates and to get new stuff going forward. But instead they put out the pathetic roadmap every month saying updates are coming, updates are coming.... until they weren't anymore. What is the lifecycle to expect going forward? Who knows? Very shady business model they're running that doesn't exist anywhere else to my knowledge in the gaming industry. Better off having a free to play base that gets updates and sell routes or otherwise a subscription model. I really don't think they know or understand their customers hence they invite this mess upon themselves and their reputation all the time. You'd think a company would want to be known for quality, yet anytime I mention DTG in simulation gaming circles I'm met with eyes rolling and "oh no, not those guys" and told to stay away. I personally enjoyed the franchise through TSW2, but now realize what the eye rolling all those years was about. Lesson learned I guess. And to DTG, seriously, just do better. It wouldn't be difficult. You're actually making things harder on yourselves by being deceitful which is completely avoidable. You had a chance to turn the page with a new owner, but you've gone down the same road again. All I can do is shake my head and feel sorry for you folks.