Red Flag Of The Day

The biggest red flag in today's stream was the amount of items that won't be available at launch.


Vectron*
Flying Scotsman*

*(Edit from DTG Alex: This is incorrect - both of these are available from day one, the individual purchases of these outside of TSW4 Deluxe & Special edition are available 30 days after Launch for £12.99 / €15.99 / $16.99 each.)​

Formation Designer
Suspension Improvements

Plus question marks over exactly which items will be available to play from the compatible set of routes on day 1. (on previous evidence the core TSW3 routes won't be there)

There were many examples of things that were still in planning or unclear (they even cut the entire segment discussing the formation designer which was clearly filmed, plus put on a subtitle about the suspension).

Remember these estimates are as of Mid-August - will they be met? Hmmm

Now if you are moving to a 12 month model, it really isn't great if some of your new content is delayed by 1 month, and that's just today's estimate.

We know from previous releases that they can't develop a lot of items simultaneously, so moving to an annual launch fest is just a recipe for disaster.

 

True, I don't mind the 12 month cycle but I expect more robust launches.

 

I'm pretty sure the Flying Scotman and Vectron are available from day one, just not for separate purchase on day one?

 

Hold on, where was it said Flying Scotsman wasn't available day one?

 

It just says you can't buy them individually till October on the FAQ. Not that they don't release on day one for Deluxe owners.

 

I haven't watched the whole stream yet. But I must admit they have announced a lot of new features. I am most excited about the suspension improvements.

 

is TSW 4 a full update of UE4 to higher or even UE5?
or is it the same engine as TSW 3?

 

Ah ok, so the locos are available for sale in a bundle in August, finished for September but we can't buy them individually until October? Makes sense.

 

Keep in mind the suspension update will not be released at launch.

PS: Just noticed Alex posted this same info while I was writing.

 

I will be watching the roadmap with keen interest tomorrow.

 

So you expect people to fork out for things not yet in game. You've done this before (rush hour). Still not implemented. we paid for content that was never delivered. You do realise that this could be construed as false advertising in uk, if not implemented. Dtg are going down a very dangerous path.

 

DTG Matt so whats happening with rush hour on tws3? Will this be implemented? because if not, a full refund should be issued to all players who purchased rush hour. Don't think for a second you can get away with selling content that was never going to happen. This is illegal under uk law. What dtg have done is literally a con.

 

Umm.. this is DTG. Expect the bare minimum effort with flashy marketing. Robust is not part of their vocabulary.

 

I'm only interested in the ECML Route + Flying Scotsman. Can I wait until 26 October and buy "Flying Scotsman Centenary Edition (including Training Center, East Coast Main Line: Peterborough - Doncaster Route Add-On & the LNER Class A3 60103 Flying Scotsman)" as mentioned in the faq?



Or can I buy that content only after I have bought a TSW4 edition?

 

So whenever a developer runs into Technical Issues or Development Issues, they're breaking the law...?
Noted.

 

Its called false advertising. Look it up

 

Agreed. We have quite robust consumer law here in Australia, so I’m going to enquire with the ACCC to see if there may be a breach.

It could also be argued that it’s a bait and switch. This now yearly paid upgrade cycle means there is zero guarantee that DLC’s will be patched past the first year; this is contrary to their past support practices, and also to what they’ve said they would support going forward based on our purchase of TSW3.

The base game is now a 12 month license for DLC support, ie. a subscription, or software-as-a-service. I never signed up for a that.

 

Would be interesting to see whether they have breached any consumer laws. But I suspect that they have lawyers that have made sure their EULA is air tight and they can lie to customers as they please.

 

Most anti-fraud consumer laws in EU are some variations of "if proclamations by vendor lead the customer to make a purchase they wouldn't otherwise do, it is a criminal offence of false advertising". It does not matter at all what is written in the vendor's EULAs or anywhere else.

 

I'm not a child and I do know obvious laws mate.

The only thing from RH that is really missing is RH Passengers on BML, which is absent due to technical limitations. You still get everything else, and I really don't think the police or the courts would give much of a s*** because one minor thing was prevented by technological limits.

 

Rush hour passengers were a major part of the advertising for tsw2 rush hour. It wasn't a minor thing either

 

My view on the Rush Hour issue is that, if it wasn’t implemented in TSW 2, why would you solely buy TSW 3 hoping for it?

I don’t agree with how DTG are acting, but there is a point where someone is just being silly.

I stopped buying DLC for TSW 2 when I couldn’t have it all installed, and I didn’t go for TSW 3 until that issue was fixed. I certainly wasn’t about to trust DTG to fix the issue & purchase TSW 3 prior to that being fixed.

I’ll do the same with TSW 4, if there is something that I do not trust to happen (which at the moment seems to be a few things that won’t be happening at launch), then I won’t purchase TSW 4 until those things are implemented. I’m not about to crowdfund a multi-million pound business, with a track record of lying, spanning over a decade, in some hope that they’ll do what they say they will.

Buy DTG products based upon what they are when they’re sold, not what DTG promise or you think they will be.

FYI it’ll cost you more in legal action then whatever you’ll recoup from a DLC, that when bundled wasn’t even £20.

 

Rush hour passengers were added, just not on all routes due to limitations. None of this would hold up in court, so all of you saying "It's against the law" good luck to you, nothing is going to happen with such a minor thing, as it was partially added.

 

Just A couple of points I would like to make.
1: Regarding a yearly release cycle. No-one from DTG has said categorically that this is happening.
2: Even if it is the case that we are now on a yearly release cycle, we now have an editor, so there is nothing to stop people continuing to use (and more importantly produce) new content for TSW4 using the editor. So in theory TSW4 can last as long as content is being produced for it. Even after the release of any follow up releases.

 

It is a bit early for pantomime season! I remember someone on here was adamant they were going to Kent trading standards, they wriggled out of it when people started to encourage them!

 

Since the Editor is distributed over the Epic Games Store, they can push force updates or straight up remove older versions of the Editor and release a new one with support for the next game only

 

They can't very well remove copies of the editor that are potentially sitting on numerous hard drives throughout the world. Also Just because it wasn't supported does not mean it would stop working.

 

You're aware that UE can integrate with Epic Games Store's APIs pretty well just as Steam does?

 

You are aware that computers can run programmes in offline mode?

 

I have a question about the formation designer, can you also make custom length ICE 1's or is that not possible as it counts as an EMU, even though as tested with godmode the individual middle cars work perfectly fine and can even be coupled when running them into each other, unlike on the ICE 3 cars for example, since the ICE 3 is a different type of EMU (you can't just swap out a broken car like that for example)

 

It’s that time of the year again. I’ll go into town to get some popcorn. Should I get you anything?

 

Well no need to pick up extra salt. There’s plenty in this thread.

 

Not the type that tastes like cat litter!

 

Wouldn't remotely hold up in court, especially as it is literally technical limitations causing it.

You could write a strongly worded letter to [legal agency], avoiding tear stains, and see if it goes anywhere. Doubt it will.

 

I don't think anyone really bought RH for the passengers alone.
If they did, I ask them: what is wrong with you?

 

Release reveals are truly like winning the lottery, you always get strange family members crawling out of the woodwork trying to almost guilt trip you into forking over some of the cash........

 

I never said I would take legal action. You said that the rush hour passengers were a minor thing which just wasn't true in terms of how it was advertised

 

Hey, DTG, if we have to wait a month to buy it separately, that doesn't count as it being available at launch.

 

Alex did explain only deluxe and special editions

 

It is called rush hour. The focus was on increased npcs. This never happened. Dtg mislead the consumer.

 

And the focus was the busy timetable with over 1000+ services on the BLM so that's why it's called rush hour.

 

Neither Jackie Chan nor Chris Tucker were featured in the release therefore it is false advertising

 

Weird coincidence how we seem to have all these consumer lawyers in the DTG forums. What are the odds?

 

How is it false advertising?

 

Twas just a little joke

https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.cKyJO...203&h=304&c=7&r=0&o=5&dpr=2&pid=1.7&PC=EMMX01

 

ok lol

 

Rush Hour was the name of a bundle of three routes, with the passenger feature coming alongside it.
BML is, due to technical limitations, lacking that.

They didn't lie.