Petition For An Apology From Dtg As Well As A Pledge For More Transparency In The Future

All the stuff going on in the world and now we have a thread on here from somene wanting an apology for a game developer for bringing out a new game. God give me strength.

it’s time like this I wish I could stop the bus and jump off lol

 

Ok, so again no one is asking they work for free. Just that not every core update gets a full new game release.
We still pay gladly for content we like. Including new routes and locos. Just like it was in TSC and just like it should be.
They didn't work for free then, and they wouldn't be now.

Let's take your logic to its logical end point though.
How about you pay for a full new window license every time your PC updates.
Those good people at Ms need to make a living, you know?
Driver update? Better pay a new fee to that company that made those drivers.
Ms Office has an update? Better rebuy that entire license. They gotta eat too, right?

 

Stop being dramatic.
You just don't like the topic. Don't get why you're feeling the need to complain about it. It's not like it's affecting either one of you.
You're free to ignore the thread at your own leisure and I would kindly ask that you do.

 

Hahaha the title of the this thread made me pee a little.

Let me know how it goes.

 

To anyone coming into this thread, I would kindly ask the following.

You are free to disagree with the premise of this thread.
You are also free to voice your disagreement through constructive and well construed arguments, dialogue and critique made in good faith.

However, if you can not do this, nor respect our right to voice our own disagreement and frustration through this thread, in order to keep this thread civil and as free of toxicity as possible, I would kindly request you do not engage.

 

Bus? Different sim.

 

If that was the way the system was to work I'd do I had to do, buy what I wanted and not buy what I didn't want, I don't care about the cost of stuff, plain and simple, if I want it I buy it, if I can't afford it then I wait till I can and buy it, capitalism is how the modern world works.

 

This isn't just a "capitalism" issue though.
There was capitalism back in 2009 too, yet the model I'm describing has worked perfectly well for TSC up until today.

Of course you can buy what you want and leave what you don't. And if there's no money now, wait indeed.
But as with TSC, core updates should just not be monetized

 

I think the TSC kind of model would work better than what we have right now. I already pre-ordered because it's at a discount and I don't feel like having to buy it at full price when they release something that I like. I would prefer that they at least have an option to buy just the base game for pre-existing players. And also, I don't understand why people are saying to remove the poll feature because of something they disagree with. What's "useless" to you is not necessarily useless to someone else.

 

Wait till next year when TSC goes to the yearly paid updates. They did this year, thats how it starts.

Oh and please show me where DTG ever said that TSW was going to follow the same business model as TSC. As I haven't seen it anywhere.

66% of players are on consoles and don't have access to TSC or Windows for that matter. And obviously DTG have gone with way that console games go. New one every year paid.

Makes sense from a business perspective to me.

Why do you think the are allowing the editor on PC. Could it be a tool for them scout and acquire new talent?

Sounds like a plan for a rapidly expanding business that needs to make all the money they can to accomplish what they want to me.

 

I didn't see earlier that Roadmap 2 included an apology for TSW2 (and I guess 3?) outstanding issues. In this case I thank DTG for owning up to this. I am hopeful that this is a first step in rebuilding trust with their community over long standing issues. As somebody mentioned here recently, it is easier for trust to be broken than to be earned, so I will remain cautious for the time being and see where the lay of the land is with TSW4. Maybe I'll end up taking another year off and seeing what the long term reaction to this version is and see if it's worth my time. Anyhow, thank you for the inclusion and explanation in the roadmap.

 

Your telling me to stop being dramatic when we have a silly pointless thread wanting an apology from a developer because YOU don’t like the idea of having to PAY for something.
GROW UP. They owe you nothing.
Don’t like the idea of TSW 4 guess what you don’t have to buy it!

stop barking orders at people because they don’t agree with you.

 

It's simple, if you don't like trains... buses are that way >>>>>>
And cars this way <<<<<<<<

Got it?

 

First of all calm down. Go watch Mr Bean!! I love that guy.

Let's all have a laugh. We are all getting too serious.

Now.... would you be happy if we just bought the game for you so you don't have to pay for it?

Will you cease with your apology demand???

Just go for a walk mate. Take a breath of fresh air.

Or play some Train Sim World!! HUGE GRIN!!!

 

If you read the road map you will see an apology.

https://live.dovetailgames.com/live/train-sim-world/articles/article/tsw4-roadmap-part2-24th-august

 

Where are the boats? LoL

Ferry Simulator. New York Harbor.

 

He also forgot airplanes this way ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Have some humour in your day! Smiling helps!!



If we could get a Mr Bean DLC now that would be epic!!

If we can get NPCs to talk....

 

Capitalism isn't just one model of how things are sold, so to be fair they have every right to sell it anyway they want, and what we think is right or wrong means sod all, again that's how capitalism works in the modern world......

 

Good points....

Staten Island ferry that way ^^^^^^

 

The thing is, are you the CEO of Focus Entertainment/DTG Games?

Let them run their business.

If you don't like the model then you can go to Trainz. Apparently that is doing well.

I'm off to check for passengers on the tracks on the Long Island Railroad because apparently someone has said that is a bug that is not fixed.... oh well.

 

The problem is tsw4 comes with old bugs: bullet can car, cc livery on freight cars etc. I would be more than happy to buy new old/bugs free game, but NO, it is the same broken game with some updates not necessarily justified next number, simple as that. For me, TSW4 is not a cash grab, it is fake hype about the same old wear off little/polished. product

 

You can not ask blind for apology when he step on your foot...

 

If you’d like to go to the dtg office and develop tsw4 and give a public apology, then fine. If not then just accept that it’s not what you wanted. It won’t always go your way

 

Well it clearly seems your expectations were way too far off. I yesterday saw again a tsunami of improvements. Turned out the announcement was so packed with improvements it was even too much to register in one go. Luckily stutters are a UE thing or I would have nothing left anymore to shout about.

 

Now listen here, they’re not a game developer, they’re a very naughty boy

 

Maaan, am I happy that you´re a "real world train driver" and not some aftersales manager. Poor customers!

 

Having been one of the most vocal, after watching the various points of view shake down I'm of the view that the only thing DTG need to review is their messaging on this.
Instead of talking about user features, it may have been more useful to really give more weighting to the technical reasons for creating TSW4.
I'm starting to understand there is a clear dividing line between the two that is significant. The functionality of portals for ai trains for eg. This is something that can only be applied from this point forward.
For these reasons it's logical to stick to tsw3 if none of the routes of tsw4 so far appeal, and jump in once some do. Tsw3 routes will still function but not in any meaningfully different way on tsw4.
If the evolutionary potential is realised, routes going forward can be fleshed out massively I think, because of this new functionality.
It's this technological dividing line that I think dtg need to explain and sell, and those that are outraged will begin to see the logic of it.

 

Potential! That´s the right term.
I sense huge potential for improvements on somebody who would willingly appear in front of a greater public wearing pink catphones.
There, first step to be taken seriously.

 

I agree with you actually. I do wonder to what extent more problems than solutions originate from that particular area. Not the focus of this discussion though tbh. Moving the frames of reference to point score is not something that serves our interests as a community.

 

I think the OP should apologise to DTG for the bandwidth this thread has cost them…

Seriously though I was mighty disappointed that SimRail never delivered on their promise regarding a save game and proper SP mode. But you don’t see me over at their forum ranting on about it. I made the point a couple of times, politely, then moved on.

As I’ve said previously, 99% of runs in TSW turn out fine and trouble free. Of course there are niggles, bugs and fixes needed but that doesn’t stop me enjoying the best sim on the market or choosing to buy TSW4 which gives me three routes and a loco pack for not much more than one route DLC. (Bear in mind too that for UK purchases, 20% of that £39 is going straight to the taxman in VAT, Steam are taking their cut, so DTG probably lucky to see 2/3 of that amount).

Compared to some games I tried in the last few months (The Bus, Sailwind, Sailaway), TSW4 is a shining beacon of software professionalism. Even Stray, which I really like, had me tearing my hair out and resorting to god mode for some of the sections due to no difficulty adjustment. Go back a few years and Doom 2016, I could never get beyond that mid game double boss fight so never seeing the rest of the game. But I didn’t plonk a big rant about it on ID’s forum. Smiled, maybe cursed a bit, and moved on.

So my final word on this is, give TSW4 a chance. Who knows, it might just surprise you.

 

You´re right. I shouldn´t finger point. It boils down to something simple and essential: Don´t feed us blatant lies anymore. Between lines it´s calling us "idiots". And that´s the reason why many people from the paying public, including me, are that upset.

 

Waaa waaa waaa waaa. This thread isn't helping anyone and dtg should not have to apologize for creating a game that took alot of time and effort and is alot better than the previous games.

 

In fact OP has shot themselves in the foot with the poll anyway, as the overwhelming majority of responses are “No” to his proposition. The nays have it, court adjourned!

 

Indeed. I voted no.
I think DTG misread the room and got the focus of the messaging wrong, which in turn has given rise to much confusion, outrage and incomprehension.
If anyone needs to apologise, its internally within the company.
As regards all this, I think it's time for DTG to drill down for us on why it's technically a great idea to have created tsw4 with a particular focus on those functions like portals which are not backward compatible and why they offer a great deal of potential moving forward which is as yet unseen in the new routes.
I've done a complete 180 in the last 24hrs. There's good reasons for that and DTG has not played a part. In fact they should have been the loudest voice from the get go.

 

I think you are right.

After last night’s stream, I’ve got more of an understanding of why we have TSW4. Matt also answered a question about a bug that’s been annoying me for the past year, which obviously makes me happier.

Maybe if some of this information had been available earlier there wouldn’t have been such an issue. I don’t know though. Some people would have complained anyway.

I do think it could have been handled better. Maybe lessons will be learned, maybe not.

For me, if they deliver what was presented in the current roadmap without any major disasters then I’m getting it. It’s good value for the bits I like. I will forego the preorder discount to wait and see how the release goes, but I’m pretty sure I will buy it.

 

Even if it was 99% Yes they should ignore it because of the sample size and because it's a poll on the internet

 

Yeah, so I agree with that.

Do you remember when TSW2 got announced?
The team's attitude during it was basically: "While we think TSW2 is great and we're happy to announce it, we also understand sincerely that this is not ideal for most of our player base and may raise some eyebrows, but after running the numbers and trying everything we could we came to the conclusion that this is the best option we have"

I'm basically asking for that compassion and understanding towards their own community.
When I say I want an apology, I'm not saying they should be tarred and feathered (someone said Cersei's walk of shame), I'm asking for them to acknowledge it and basically show us the same concern they did back when they announced TSW2.
That would've made all the difference at least to me.

 

Except the point wasn't to have the "yes" win. It was to show the "yes" wasn't insubstantial, which, looking at the poll, they're not.
Court adjourned!

 

Ok, aside from the pretty immature way you started that. Please make an argument.
What is it about the core game of TSW4 (not the routes or editor) that is good enough for you to justify releasing it as a new game?
There is room for disagreement. Obviously.
Please keep in mind, unlike what some others keep insinuating, even though it's been addressed every time, I'm not asking for free stuff.

 

Doesn't the poll show you it's time for you to reflect?

 

To be honest, I dont think its about us changing each others minds. Its about allowing the full range of ideas to be explored, allowing those to be examined (robustly in some cases), allowing them to coalesce and then allowing DTG to see the predominance of one view over another and fit that into their strategic thinking.
From this they can evolve their messaging and communication.

 

I give a rat´s arse to apologies from DTG. Heard them before. It would be just one too many.
Walk your talks and I might consider to take them seriously again.
Just to answer this poll.

 

Exactly. Thank you for putting that into words.
The reason for this thread and this poll are as follows;

• To vent anger and frustration to DTG's approach to this. To this, as a part of this community I reserve the right to feel however I please about DTG's course of action and to voice that, so long as I do so in a respectful but honest fashion, and sometimes that involved giving them some tough love.
• This poll is also to show that I am not alone in feeling the way I do, giving DTG reason to not just disregard this as the ramblings of a single dissatisfied customer. For this purpose, the "yes" don't have to win, just be a strong presence, which they are, but it's not about necessarily changing anyone's mind.
  It's to demonstrate that the wedge I mentioned is real and needs to be adressed.
• I specifically made sure to include a condition to, at least for me, resolve a lot of the tension. a.k.a. for them to acknowledg it as while the situation would remain less than ideal, there is no point in venting without offering some solution.

 

That's valid, and I'm sorry you feel the way that you do.

 

I'm sorry but the only thing I see in this topic is someone demanding DTG to say they are wrong and should adapt the ideas of the OP.

Until we have seen TSW4 on our devices we don't know if it's worth it or not. Game releases are all the same: People rave about a new game coming out and on launch day it sucks or people moan about a game that is coming out and on launchday they discover a very good game.

 

Oh the irony.....

 

A couple of points.

The OP has explained their reasons. Im open to them doing so as it then gives me an opportunity to explore alternative points of view.

TSW4 has technical advantages which will not be apparent even on launch day, but which will become apparent over time. Potential is a useful concept here and one which DTG could explain better in my view. Immediacy of emotional reaction is no barometer of accuracy of assessment. On that we are agreed.

 

I'm open to productive conversation, but much of the "critique" I'm seeing over here against this thread is basically people just saying "shut up, bow your head and don't complain"
If you want to make productive conversation on this, please explain to me why you think TSW4 is a radically different enough product over TSW3 to warrant selling it as a new game instead of just having it be a core update.

 

While it may seem strange to call for DTG to apologise, what the op wants to convey seems to me to be very well argued.

I don't particularly like that they have decided to change the number of the game so slightly from one year to the next because I don't see significant changes to justify it, but this is the path they have chosen and I am not likely to change this approach. It is ugly that they are abandoning TSW 3 so soon and ending support for it so radically.

But I don't need an apology, I will buy TSW 4 because it seems to me that, for the price, it offers a lot in return. But what is very clear to me is that somehow I have to punish them for these policies. So I don't plan to buy absolutely no future dlc at full price from now on, I'll always buy at a heavily discounted price, even if I have to wait as long as it takes.

I think this is the message they will understand best. Of course, if only a few of us do it, it will be totally indifferent, but if there are many of us... when they do their profit and loss accounts, they will certainly get the message loud and clear.