In light of derogatory comments made elsewhere on the forum this morning about the section choice for ECML, I would actually like to express my thanks and appreciation to the teams behind the routes and trains that will be coming to TSW4. (And the core updates). There are many of us, particularly with experience building in other sims, who know just how much work goes into creating a route to freeware standards, let alone payware. It's hard gruelling work and testimony to the team that we are getting (I think) the longest UK route in TSW to date and I think the same can be said for the US route which I'm eagerly anticipating (even Run 8 haven't managed Soledad Canyon yet). In fact all three routes are going to be a great addition to the game. So I say again to the team, please don't be disheartened because a handful of malcontents seem to be ruling the roost at present. Yes there are and will be issues that need to be aired but always remember there are real people behind what we see on our screens.
Great to see a positive post, and I would like to echo my thanks too, I am looking forward to the new routes and what is to come later.
Yes, well said OldVern. Having watched the Stream last night, I understood a lot more about what was in TSW4 and started to get excited for it. I’ll be buying it when I return after my September holidays.
Despite the fact these routes don't particularly interest me, I'm still happy to see the core game progressing and improving. There is clearly hard work being placed on a labour of love. Well done team.
It is lazy to use a throwaway term like lazy when you don't have to do it yourself. DTG often come in for fair criticism but to cite them as lazy, in particular those involved in producing the routes and stock is frankly detestable. I haven't the first clue how to make anything like a route or stock but it clearly isn't a five minute job. Just because they don't produce what you want doesn't make them lazy.
I couldn't agree more. I am genuinely excited, not just for the new content, but also for some of the new features in TSW4 which are worth the price alone.
There you go calling me names again old buddy. I am going to follow you around this forum, like your worst nightmare .
Agree 100%... and for me personally this is the most excited i've been for any tsw release in the 3-4 years i've played the game, so i'm very grateful we're about to receive Doncaster - Peterborough next month, so thanks DTG for that!
I’m going to assume I’m a malcontent as well, so be it. Can’t help but feel this is a smidge hypocritical OldVern but whatever. I’ll be sure to quote this back at you next time you’re on here complaining about something, which will probably not be long after TSW4 releases. That is, of course, assuming you don’t refund it. theorganist You do like to use very emotive language. ‘Detestable’ is a bit of a strong word is it not? Still, I take it that you have never once complained about a product or service you’ve received? About your flight being delayed maybe? Because that would be, erm, detestable.
Well I have only ever flown twice so have little experience in that regard! There is a vast difference between complaining about a late train (more relevant to me) and complaining that because a route has been made which doesn't meet with your approval and then calling those who develope it lazy, disregarding the time, passsion and effort that has gone into creating said content. For example I think TVL should have had the Bishop Auckland branch, an unfortunate decision in my eyes, however do I think those who built the route were lazy for not including it, no of course not! I can see that what is there has taken time, effort and skill which went into creating it. So I make no apologies for using the word detestable, these are real people, you might think you are addressing a faceless corporation but you aren't.
I'm very much looking forward to the new features, and new routes. I can't wait. Is it going to be perfect? Probably not. But it's going to be the Azuma in TSW, so I'm super hyped.
Yup TSW4 was a very pleasant surprise as I just had rediscovered TSW3 thinking it improved a lot but still could be much better and next DTG said "hold my beer". So yes thank you DTG for keeping this game engaging.
Thank you all for the kind comments! The teams here at Dovetail have been working hard to deliver the best experience with Train Sim World 4, and we can't wait to showcase all the new routes, locos and features over the next month in our preview streams ahead of the launch later in September
Thank you for this thread. I am also very excited about TSW4 and can’t wait for September 21. In addition to the routes, particularly the one in Austria, which looks like it will have an engaging traffic pattern, I am also very excited for many of the new features. The mini HUd is here very welcome addition for me. UK and US routes are so difficult to learn to drive without a HUD. I tend to favor the German routes, but the mini HUD will allow me to take on a challenging US or UK run without the distraction of the full HUD and without having created extensive notes on landmarks for speed changes and stations. Being a connoisseur of chaos, I am also very excited about free roam feature allowing me to drop a favorite train into an existing timetable. I look forward to running the 700 in the chaos that is the BML timetable, placing an LGV behind a Javelin headed to Ashford, and placing the 101 pretty much anywhere on DRA! Thanks, DTG.
You just made me realise that my gripe with imperial units might have been partially solved. Again thank you DTG!
I really do detest the use of "lazy", which is mortally insulting to devs who put in way more than 40 hours a week making this content. I suspect perhaps that "time-pressed" is a more accurate descriptor; I fear that a great deal of customer dissatisfaction with releases stems from the fact that the devs have to conform to a release schedule which is Carved In Stone, whether there is really enough time or not.
Are you just on this forum to complain and be combative? Because since I’ve been on here that’s all I’ve seen you do to people.
Thanks for the positive responses everyone. JetWash yes I’m sure there will be a time when you can point back to this thread and go naa, naargh naa naa naa. I’ve Not suddenly put on rose tinted specs or become a foaming loon. Just wanted to counter the incredible negativity that has surfaced in other threads and the particular instance of downright rudeness aimed at people who are working very hard to deliver this stuff.
You've summed it up perfectly, As somebody myself who's trying to work my way into the 3D industry I know just how many hours you need to sink into modelling and trying to create accurate representations and for Dovetail of course, that's only a small portion of their whole development pipeline. The amount of work that goes into producing a game like TSW Is staggering and takes a serious amount of dedication from the entire team. So I would also like to thank the TSW4 team for all the hours and dedication they've put in.
I always appreciate valid criticism, but I also really appreciate some positive sentiments too - this kind of thread just gets you all the more engaged and positive to get on and do more. Really appreciate this folks. I'll add a bit of my own appreciation - knowing what the team are doing, the passion and energy they've been putting in, as someone who is as much a player of this as a developer myself, I'm blown away by what i've been seeing not just in terms of the art they've created but the drive and energy that's gone into making it. I get excitable messages from team members saying "hey go look at this X we just got done putting in! let us know what you think!" - in particular the character team have done this regularly, not just looking for bland feedback on work completed, but excitable "this is cool! what do you think?!" and that energy has been incredibly infectious. This kind of thread warms them up too, and I thank you all in particular for that Matt.
I wouldn’t do that, I was just making the point that it’s a little unfair to dismiss what I believe is, on the whole, valid criticism as malcontents when you’ve done a fair amount of tub thumping yourself. All equally valid of course. I don’t think any of the criticism is generally aimed at the people building the routes, or if it is I haven’t seen it. Why would it be? It’s the bigger picture stuff, the abandoning of TSW3 and the putting of fixes for TSW3 content behind a paywall. If, when the Just Trains route goes on sale TSW4 is thrown in as part of the £30 purchase price then I’ll happily eat my words.
I mean it was abudentdently clear that the reason they didn't make a london-Peterborough part of the route because it was too hard for them. Having a route in that area would have allowed for more variety rather than a one passenger train, one freight train route so I can understand why there are those not pleased with that choice. You could've got the 387, 700 and maybe even the northern city line with the 717. A nice little network. Peterborough to Doncaster is alot easier for them to make so they can copy, paste some assets and not have to do as much work I feel like there are those that just try to dismiss valid criticism because it doesn't fit their view point
The poster addressing people as "lazy" as happened in the other thread is unacceptable. If you wish to post "valid criticism" fine, but let's try and keep this thread for the purpose I started it.
Was the ‘lazy’ comment aimed at individuals or was it more a comment about the decision to model that part of the route? I genuinely haven’t seen it. If it was aimed at individuals then it’s unfair, if it was aimed at the decision then although it’s a crass way of putting the point across some might perhaps argue there’s some merit in it the general sentiment, if not the word itself. I wouldn’t suggest it’s lazy though, I’m sure commercial and time pressures likely dictated as to why it was that section. With that said, you can’t escape the fact that as a section of the route to model, it would have required the least development time by some margin. A good chunk of it would likely be autogened would it not and it has 5 stations, 3 of which are fairly generic looking.
Very well said! I'm really excited for the future of content creation in TSW. Game dev is a crazy complex subject, to open up in house dev tools for a simulation is such a big thing. It really says a lot about the passion the team has. I'm pretty new to the forums and I'm here for positivity and looking at how we can help improve the game going forward. Great to see the support and looking forward to getting started!
Despite the large comment I left in a previous thread (which I still stand by) I am also excited to see tsw 4, I do enjoy tsw in general since theres really no other way I can enjoy my passion. I play tsw almost daily and I'm especially excited to use the new haptics that come with the PS controller.
I haven't seen anyone attack the developers directly. As to the lazy comment, it is quite clear that this section was made because it is the easiest part to make. Lazy isn't a totally unjustifiable way to describe it. People are entitled to their viewpoints
It’s always the same people too. There are 3/4 people who regularly frequent this forum who only want to spew vitriol at other users and DTG staff. It’s bizarre to me that people spend their time using a forum dedicated to a product they despise made by people they continually abuse and denigrate.
Personally I have no problem with anyone expressing their views. What does annoy me is people expressing them 80 times in 3 days...
Of course it takes less time, but it was still substantial - every bit as long to develop as other equivalent routes, it's still an 80 mile route after all that doesn't just happen. Only 5 stations, but 5 large stations - most routes have one or two of those. Autogen paints the ground, and that's about it. The routes you're running are still 95-98% hand crafted. We chose an easier section, but that doesn't mean it was easy, just that it was easier. We decided not to do the southern bit because we didn't feel it was achievable for us at this time. I fully accept that you wish it was another bit of the ECML, but please don't downplay or attempt to trivialise the amount of work that it's taken to make this route, a massive number of hours have been put into it across the team, many late nights and long days. To consider any part of these projects to have been "lazy" is, frankly, ignorant and uninformed. I'd invite you to understand the topic you're discussing better before you berate the team. All three routes have been big projects to develop. Sorry if that comes off grumpy, but, well, I'm grumpy! Now, can we get back to the topic at hand please, there are loads of other threads with this kind of stuff in them, it doesnt need one more. Matt.
I wouldn’t have called them lazy personally because I understand why they made that section of the route. It wasn't a difficult part of the route to make. People do have a right to an opinion regardless if you agree or not. That's all I'm saying
I'll start by saying that I've been on the fence regarding DTG's future work on TSW since the move from TSW2 to TSW3. I always felt that this really was a costly move for us avid supporters of the game/simulator. I really felt let down by the improvements that they boasted about. Looking at what TSW4 will have to offer over TSW3, is a clear indication that DTG have 'listened' to their customer base, and are finally putting out a product 'update' that is worthy of its purchase price. Having watched the stream the other night (and thanks to whomever for creating the time stamps), it's all too evident that there is a plethora of updates to look forward to. This, along with the 15% loyalty discount, makes me feel like a valued customer once again. I can state that I am off the fence and will be purchasing the Deluxe version. All I will add, is to address the people with negative comments and ask them, "Do you really like the experience of being able to 'drive trains' along 'real routes' ?". If the answer is 'Yes', then get back to playing the game and stop making out that you are being 'forced' to update/buy TSW4. The reason I ask and state this is because there is a package for UK, German/Austrian and USA folk to enjoy. I fail to see how a new route/loco, game additions and updates can't appeal to those who 'really' like trains. Many thanks to all the DTG team and 3rd party developers. x
I’m replying because you seem to have directed that whole post at me. I’m not bothered about which section of the ECML it is. It was actually a pleasant surprise it wasn’t the Southern bit. In an ideal world, from my point of view, you would have gone further North but whichever section it was someone was going to be disappointed. I stand by what I did say, that in my opinion that section is probably the dullest bit of either the East or West Coast mainlines. Other people will disagree with that (the section north of York runs it damn close) and that is just fine. Finally, I appreciate you’re grumpy about it but it wasn’t me that said it. I’ve said 3 times now that using the term ‘lazy’ wasn’t justified, especially when aimed at individuals, and at no point have I berated ‘the team’. If you can demonstrate otherwise then I apologise, but I’m pretty certain I’ve not said anything of the sort. Cheers.
Personally I feel the route selections and choices are fine! The Austrian route looks exciting and would be a visual treat hopefully with the detailed mountains as the backdrop. The American route looks interesting as well and hopefully justice is done on the loco. There’s a fair few features which I’m looking forward to as well. I really cannot wait to see what people will do with the editor. Feel like that’s a huge huge release and def will extend the longevity of the game. There’s lots to be excited, but it’s just that I really really wish DTG would consider patching the routes in TSW3 first or at least bring them to TSW3 once they are out for TSW4. I’ve seen the roadmap and there are plans for some of the TSW3 content but there are a few more locked away with TSW4. Also yes while this is a forum, remember there’s a human being on the other side. Be nice, I can assure you people won’t dare to say half of the insults if it were face to face.
I could say the exact same to you. You can just play the game and don't have to be here. Telling people to not say anything and to just play the game doesn't do anything and is hypocritical
Really Matt? That's not what Lukas said in this video showing off the new game: He said that the tracks, signals and major stations are built by hand but clearly stated that 'a lot in between [the stations] is generated' (translated from German). 'A lot' to me would suggest more than just painting the ground. He went on to say that it otherwise 'would not be possible'.
there are some points that make me really mad about this game, obviously, won't deny that(BR1442, for example?), but generally i always appreciate to all the work you've been through, DTG. some hundreds of hours of mine were already poured to this game, so enjoyment is what should be appeared to headline...
i have a lot of respect for everyone at DTG and really don't see the need for a lot of the negativity that seems to come up on this forum regularly. There is a lot of hard work that clearly goes on behind the scenes, and having an immersive train sim like we have, and available to me on ps4, is incredible really.. i'm not saying everything is always perfect (i still cannot play midland mainline without it crashing) but the vast majority of the time the game is exactly what i would like it to be I'd also like to commend Matt for his engagement with the forum, despite it being a seemingly negative environment at times a while ago this was part of my responde to something Matt replied to: It's really great and interesting to know that my comment about Peterborough to Doncaster would have already been in the works at that point!
A positive thread! Hallelujah! In all seriousness, i'd like to echo OldVern's post and thank the DTG/TSW team for TSW4. I'm personally really looking forward to it, as it's a huge step up, especially on the creative side (which I care a lot about). The three routes all look interesting and I'll be sure to give them plenty of my time. It's not perfect, and it probably never will be. But I'm for one looking forward to it, and just wish the perpetual negativity and lack of constructive discussion would just end. That's all.
I'll apologise for quoting you for the entire post - your note about expecting large chunks of routes was what triggered the response, but then it went into other places that were NOT a response to your post. So i'll apologise for that. Matt.
