Honestly I’m happy longer UK routes are coming, and my favourite train is being added to the game. Only peeve is no 91 and 800 but these are relatively minor at the end of the day so well done to the developers
No need to apologise Matt. I just wanted to clear up that it wasn’t me that said it (I did for a second think blinking heck, I didn’t write that did I?!). I’m not sure I even wrote anything about wanting large chunks of routes. I may have said at some point in the very distant past that as an aspiration I’d like to see the whole of both mainlines built on a modular basis and eventually connected together (as ATS have managed to do in TSC) but I’m certainly not expecting anything other than that. It’s pretty obvious that I have an issue with the way this episode has played out, particularly the fixes for TSW3 routes being behind the TSW4 pay wall and that although I have no real interest in the routes that come with the game I have to buy it to get the JT route, something I’ve been looking forward to for a long time. As ever though, I’m here because I’ve invested A LOT of time and money into your software and wish to see it succeed. When it’s good it is very very good and on the whole I enjoy it. To be honest, other than FS, TSC & TSW probably get most of my game playing time. Finally, I do appreciate the time and skill it takes to develop this stuff and I am happy to see the game progressing. My issue is with how that is marketed and sold to the customer, not that it’s happened in the first place.
It would be little harder than making London to Brighton to be honest! Interesting that you think that in building Peterborough to Doncaster they just copy and paste some assets. Maybe those who think route building is that easy should attempt it when the editor is out.
I must say I am actually REALLY looking forward to it. Ive already preordered Deluxe just earlier today and counting down to the 21st is it? But yeah I am looking forward. ECML this choice isnt actually bad - it gives proper high speed UK a go without tunnels - Something we've long needed.
I can only imagine that the OHLE might have been a challenge at the most Southern end and there are a lot of unique buildings etc in the first 10-15 miles outside of London. It would have also been a headache of a timetable too. I’d bet it was a time thing. Had they had enough I’m sure they could have done it.
Is that because you need to first build up a library of LNER Steam locomotives to do King’s Cross in the “Big Four” era? Great thread OldVern ! I’m really looking forward to TSW4, have already pre-ordered the deluxe edition on both PC and PS5. Can’t wait to take Flying Scotsman for a run along the ECML!
[EDIT - Jan - Quarrelsome], just think customers complaining - how awful? Is this the UK or N Korea? I don't ever see this sort of thing over on the TSC forum, I wonder why that is? Oh you buy the game just the once and get free core updates then buy all the dlc you want, that might be it. What a novel idea!
Given the way our governments going i could see it taking the other far way, you know, 1933 Central Europe. Politics aside eh, I've seen the TSC forums, there nice people until you relize there's actually only a handful of people there. So yeah. And I do think some of the complaints are completely unjustified especially with route choice - you don't like it? Build it yerself
Rubbish. As was explained, validly, KX-Pboro wouold be an incredibly dull stretch for the Azuma, and the Azuma is really the whole point of the route. Add to that the Scotsman and the racetrack. Meanwhile, the southern portion would be way too much like BML and SEHS, just another electric commuter run through the London suburbs of the sort which has received endless complaints.. This was all stated in the stream... There might be a valid complaint about not including the extra 30 miles to York- but that would be another massive station to build (with the usual complaints about lack of traffic).
I think this week has been filled with ups and downs. I for one have been very vocal about NYT timetable . I’m not going to lie , I was initially disappointed with the reveal . I had hope for other routes and with the 700 not having a AC route, I had expected the ECML south. But. After getting over the shock , disappointment, actually looking at the whole package, the actual price of what we were paying for the Deluxe version , my opinion changed. Since my initial disappointment I had made several positive comments about TSW4 as a whole.. We have to respect everyone’s opinion as we’re not going to agree on everything. I know we all love trains and love playing the game. Doesn’t mean we won’t provide criticism.We have to. That’s how the game improves and moves forward .We just have to do it in a respectable matter.I haven’t see any disrespectful post myself, but would always point it out if I come across.I think this week has just been rough,We received a lot of information and just need to take a breather. I agree with Vern comments. After taking all in of what’s coming with TSW4, Kohn new timetable, free roam on timetable mode, PC editor, the price of the deluxe edition, 3 routes, 2 locos is a good price.With that said,In my opinion they should had offered a free upgrade package for those that just want TSW4 and are not interested in any of the current content launching with TSW4. At the end, DTG should be confident that the player base will buy new DLC in the near future. Is just my opinion and by no means I'm no expert. Just think, free upgrade today, next month the JT route comes out which you know lots of players will likely get. Players will spend money sooner than later. As far as the Devs, thank you for all your hard work on this hobby that we all love. Really looking forward to TSW4 and the future.
And Peterborough to Doncaster isn't bland? Also the Flying Scotsman isn't even part of the base route. It's just an old steam train that you can get as a pre order bouns or a standalone dlc. Sure it reached 100 MPH in that section, but not everyone is even interested in steam. I couldn’t give a flying kahoot about that train. What I said wasn't rubbish, it frankly was true and quite obvious. Also there are people that have complained about too much variety in the London area, but then there are those that complain about major stations being empty. I'd take variety over some bland section with one passenger train and I'm not alone in that view
Don't get the joke sorry. i don't even know what an electrostar is. My interest in UK railways stopped when BR was privatised. I have no interest at all in European railways.
The OHLE on the ECML south is very advanced there’s like 7 or 8 different types of masts and gantries
Its one of the modern one-handled plastic trains that Vern loves (the final word in that sentence may not be entirely accurate, cough)
Thought as much. Personally I’d rather that when they do it they do it right rather than rush it for the sake of just ‘having it there’. As I said, personally I’d have loved to have seen Leeds/York or Newcastle - Edinburgh. For me I want to see new ideas rather than constant rehashes of TSC content. DTG never did the north of the line, I’d love to see it in TSW.
To be fair given the 5 stations we have are MASSIVE I'm content with what we have. HOWEVER an extenstion up to Leeds or York or even just Lilcon would of been nice but Im content with some proper UK High speed.
Yes DTG never did north of the line. JT definetly did however. and I think that speaks enough for itself.
I’m not sure what you mean by that, but I think JT themselves would say that that route, or that period in their history, was not their best. In a nutshell, it’s not great. JT now is a very different beast.
Right. Meanwhile, from KX to Stevenage is all suburbs, and from there north it's all fens. I rode that route regularly between town and Cambridge, and it's incredibly dull.
Doncaster also has a huge yard complex, of which some will hopefully be useable. Also not forgetting the Dresden to Riesa makeover which will breath fresh into the route.
I mean alot of tsw routes are in the suburbs or rural areas. I can't see how Peterborough to Doncaster is somehow not dull because it feels dull especially from a gameplay perspective with the lack of variety. I've played the route in TSC. There is alot more to the ECML than just 125 MPH running
I like the high speed stuff and I love the British countryside, if it’s done right. There’s not much to look at, so the fields etc need to have an element of detail, and where there are built up areas they need to be detailed with clutter and infrastructure 10 times over. If they’ve nailed that then I might even change my mind on it.
I realise there's a good chance some of my comments will have been read by some staff and I want to remind them in the strongest friendliest of terms that my very vocal comments have always been aimed at whoever is making the call much much higher up, usually above the immediate TSW/TSC dev team. To explicitly make clear, my comments have always been aimed at whoever is managing the product(s) from (i'd imagine) a directors chair or thereabouts. I know DTG Matt , DTG Alex and DTG JD do frequent the forums often and if you've read my comments thinking they are aimed at you, please accept my apologies and note that they are not aimed at yourselves. I hope you don't mind the tags, more just to clear any air as I know i've been incredibly vocal the last few days.
Agreed with the OP, especially after watching the lengthy Road Map stream yesterday. Not many devs are this open about what they are working on. Looking forward to Vorarlberg, the Vectron and the upcoming Swiss, German and Austrian routes immensely!
I just want to say thank you. you folks put a lot of effort into something that a schlub like me uses for personal entertainment. I appreciate it.
I'd also like to say thanks - yes I have (nearly) all the add ons (just missing niddertalbahn and the new loco livery pack) - and I have pre-ordered TSW 4 too, but for me the return on my money is absolutely fine (particularly given how much I've brought in sales). For all that can be found wrong with the game - and there are a number of things - I got TSW 2020 about 3 months before TSW2 was announced... and since then I've had nearly 2,500 hours of game time (and I don't leave it on the pause screen - thats pretty much all active time) even at full price thats only just over 50p an hour, given how much I have brought in sales - its probably closer to 25p per hour... To be honest - thats pretty damn good value...
That didn't come across as grumpy, that came across as someone defending their team. In todays world that's a rare commodity, and I've learnt a lot from that post about the background you all must work in. I imagine most devs simply close themselves off from forums as an act of self preservation. I hope on a personal level my robust, occasionally acerbic style doesn't cause upset. If so, it wasn't my intent. On a tangent, I think a lot of the recent broohaha stems from a lack of appreciation for the technical changes under the hood which don't often get a mention as they are not immediately visible. I know you've mentioned some of these like the portals, but only in passing, and I do wonder if more effort was spent explaining these features and the potential inherent in them whether this might illuminate for some the reasoning for the step change. This would remove the incorrect assumption that TSW4 is merely a few glossy upgrades from TSW3, replacing it with a more concrete understanding of why and how TSW3 routes cannot avail themselves of TSW4 features, and TSW4 features can only be derived from this point on.. Bit of a waffle I know. Hopefully you get my meaning. Keep the faith. Its appreciated, and TSW is indeed a marvellous creation.
I sure do love comparing Video Game discussion to North Korean Authoritarianism. I wonder if the North Koreans feel the same way.
I have had my fair share of being critical but I was honestly bowled over watching the TSW4 Direct presentation. Not only for the 3 routes + 2 locos + 1 updated route, but for the raft of improvements which just kept coming, one after the other. Then they finished with the editor announcement and I was just stunned, because I thought that horse had bolted long ago. So thank you so much for listening to our grumbles and feedback and keep up the great work. If I may suggest once the initial TSW4 sales figures have died down, that you at least consider upgrading the core of all legacy TSW players to TSW4 á la TSC as a commercial gesture of good will. That will bring back on board many of people who have fallen (or will fall) by the wayside, and trigger a metric ton of DLC purchases. It will also mean your customer base is all on the same version.
I daresay the fact that you have been quite critical of TSW makes a thread like this mean more coming from you.
It’s nice to see a positive post amongst all the negativity and arguments on various threads within the forums, so thank you for posting this OldVern For PC players, I’ve got a rather small but useful mod I plan on creating and releasing once TSW 4 is out, although I won’t say what it is. That would spoil all the fun
I'm sure the leopard hasn't changed his spots, just responding to the disparaging and sometimes offensive language being used in various threads, language that even those of us who have been critical of DTG do not for a moment want to see on these forums. I would add that, whatever issues I may have had with the direction of the game, the developers have gone yard with TSW4. Simply astounding new content, a real game changer.
Absolutely brilliant thread here Vern, which admittedly I have only skimmed over. I would to like to add my thanks to the team as the ECML has been my life and specifically this section as I have lived within a mile of the line between Peterborough and Grantham for the vast majority of my life so have an even stronger 'emotional' connection to this section than any other. This is the section of track I have wanted most in game and although it won't be with the Deltics it will still be such a special route for me. I am also glad that my cries for the the old Eastern Region have been answered and that will be crossed out on the 21st of September from my signature. I hope not only for our sake but for your sake this route (and the others/TSW4 itself) are solid, well made releases. No! We all know Vern's worst nightmare is BR loco hauled trains missing a buffet car!
The real question here is would he be willing to spend a month playing with electrostars if it meant inclusion of a buffer car to the game?
I always like to see the positive things in any situation so I am quite pleased that the Peterborough to Doncaster has been chosen. It kills two birds with one stone. First it gets a decent length route for high speed running into the game and secondly it provides an asset (The Azuma) To be used for future sections of the ECML which will surely come at some stage (whether from DTG or 3rd party ) so win win all round. DTG Matt has said on multiple occasions that DTG want us to be able to play the game the way we want and I see this release and more importantly The whole TSW4 release as the latest step towards fulfilling that ambition. so I would also like to add my thanks to the team.
My initial reaction was NO! Why? TSW3 still has issues, rip-off. Watching the video soon changed my mind. I can't wait to get my hand on TSW4. OP is spot on.
[EDIT - Jan - Inappropriate Content] In all seriousness I've stayed away from posting my thoughts, until let's say, the dust has settled. I suspected a TSW4 when the 'big announcement' announcement was made (with TSW2 to TSW3 it was taking time out to fix outstanding bugs in the four weeks prior), but the relative age of TSW3 made me question it, along with recent releases and associated bug fixes still being required. Cue the announcement stream and I'm pretty pissed when it turns out to be TSW4. The ECML doesn't particularly interest me, a couple of Napier's or Paxman's and I'd be in! Does look bloody good though. The USA and Austria I can't and won't pass judgement on needless to say it's not something I'd go to. Okay, I'll just wait for something that does prick my interest and buy into the TSW4 train and continue to enjoy what I have on TSW3 with the associated fixes. Wait, what? I discover I need to get TSW4 to ensure my TSW3 routes get fixes. Cue purple face and much rage.... But then a light... Ormskirk-Preston-Blackpool I spent much of the early 80's at the south end of platform 3 at Preston and the 142's are the actual direct reason why I moved even further North. I could bore you with tales of row upon row of orange, chocolate and provincial 142s being built! The subsequent night shot of the 47 with the volumetric fog could have been an actual picture. If I'm being pendantic, needs some AC traction but appreciate it's an extremely short bit of the WCML. So hopefully a TSW4 + Preston and I'm in. So in summary I wouldn't thank all the team as I question the morality and ethics of some, but certainly those who engage with us here DTG Matt and DTG JD, and their associated teams deserve nothing more than praise for the hard work and basically artistry they produce not to mention Shepherding the herd of cats that is the forum.
Could you please keep politics out of this. I'm really offended by your comparison. Whatever your gripe with a video game might be it's still a video game. Making such comparisons is very distasteful and ridiculing one of the biggest crimes in our history. Making derogatory imagery about a group of people you don't like sounds rather familiar to me so I would suggest to drop TSW and get some history books instead
Yes a month driving Electrostars between Gravesend and Faversham. That’ll learn me! An excellent trade off for a nice RMB or Kitchen Car in the rolling stock pool. But only if I can be the motion capture for the surly buffet car steward, dispensing pork pies, curled up sandwiches and MaxPax tea… Mind as I noted the other day, my new Toyota Yaris Hybrid when running off the battery has a vague Electrostar sound to it. Can’t beat em, join em!
