Train Simulator Classic Core Update Feedback - Dx12 Experimental Build

Thanks for that seems I was correct.

 

Woah hold up there now. lol

You can't count an update that was made today as confirmation about what you said in a post you made yesterday.

At the time of our posting DX12 was not supported by RWE2...


And todays update (below) as mentioned a couple of posts back.. (Note what I've highlighted in the second red box regarding it being disabled when selected, this confirms what I said yesterday )

 

You said that you have set RWE2 to use Vulkan... so you are not using DX12, you are using Vulkan.

 

A little feedback. Personally I noticed a decrease of the FPS, but also a stabilization of those.
Before I was in 64Bits between 15 and 60 Fps, today on DX12 I am between 20 and 30 Fps more stable.

R7 2700, X470, 32GB ram, RX 6700Xt, SSD for storage

 

My PC: Asus AMD Rysen 7 6800H with Radeon Graphics
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Ti Laptop GPU GDDR6 @ 8GB (256 bits)

 

Time of this report: 5/4/2023, 08:11:50
Machine name: DESKTOP-OQA5V5C
Machine Id: {BD7B6246-82AB-4D5C-A951-00A03C607CC3}
Operating System: Windows 11 Home 64-bit (10.0, Build 22621) (22621.ni_release.220506-1250)
Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: Micro-Star International Co., Ltd.
System Model: MS-7C75
BIOS: 2.40 (type: UEFI)
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-10600K CPU @ 4.10GHz (12 CPUs), ~4.1GHz
Memory: 16384MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 16306MB RAM
Page File: 10426MB used, 13047MB available
Windows Dir: C:\WINDOWS
DirectX Version: DirectX 12
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
User DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled
Miracast: Available, with HDCP
Microsoft Graphics Hybrid: Not Supported
DirectX Database Version: 1.4.6
DxDiag Version: 10.00.22621.0001 64bit Unicode

 

Hello, everyone.
My experience with TSC DX12 Experimental is negative so far. On my Ryzen 5 5600X system, 16 GB RAM and Nvidia 3070 RTX, I averaged 80 fps on the original DX that runs "Railworks64.exe" (probably DX9) at 3440*1440 resolution. After using DX12, under the same conditions, fps dropped to a maximum of 40 fps (minimum was even 12 fps when passing other trains).

 

Has anyone already tried to rename the DX12exe to the normal railworks.exe and then start? I ask because I had in past the strange thing, that I had much better fps (up to the double) by using the 64bit version, after renaming the 64bit.exe in the normal railworks.exe. Could be interesting if this will change something too for the DX12 version (I did´nt tried it yet)
(Of course, if core-updates coming it resets the renamed exe.files).

 

Hi,
Curiously, the FPS seem to oscillate between 14 and 15 FPS. The way they oscillate gives the impression that the FPS could increase much more (it's hard to explain in words).
So, I changed in NCP the fps to a higher value but it seems that TS doesn't take this into account!

See config in my signature.
Richard.

 

I don't have any direct feedback on the performance yet, but I did note that both the Steam overlay and the in-game Store do not work in the DX12 version as of yet.

 

When I experimented with the DX12 mode I had significantly less FPS.

I did a quick drive scenario starting at Jamaica heading towards Penn on LIRR, with no AI traffic. Both tests were done with the M7, and just stationary where the train loaded in at.

Without DX12 I had ~35 FPS
With DX12 I had ~5 FPS

My PC Specs:
Windows 11 Home
i7-9700k
16GB Ram
2070 Super

Important to know I was using RWE Pro and AP Weather 2.0 during these tests, which could’ve impacted the results.

 

It doesn't, I've tried it on a completely fresh install and it's still significantly less FPS than with DX9

DX12 = WCML-South Class 390 @ Euston 15 FPS
DX9 = WCML-South Class 390 @ Euston 30 FPS

Already posted my PC specs further back.

 

Tried the experimental build and having the same frame rate issues. Was getting near constant 60fps with a locked frame rate, on DX12 this dropped to between 20 and 30fps.

Intel Core i9 12900K
32GB RAM
Nvidia GeForce RTX 3080

 

I have objects made with TrainShadowOnlyDiffuse.fx shader broken in DX12 build. Objects with this shader are not shown if they are in Asset block group.

Here are my trees with shadows made using shader described in TSC x64:


Then, here're the same assets, but in TSC x64 DX12 Expiremental:


You can see, all objects have no shadow except shadows from the trunk (trunk uses a TrainBasicObjectDiffuse.fx shader).
Also, I still have ONLY ONE asset still making shadows OK - but it has no any differences from other made the same way, so I wonder to find a reason at my side, not game Core.

PM me if You want to get my test assets, as they are not released yet.

 

hi. when i started the dx12 version with my integrated gpu (i7-6700hq) game stutters, which happens a lot in 64bit version with my external gpu (gtx950m, like 5-6 seconds unplayable especially in Taurus Mountains dlc), did not happen but i could play in low graphics. However, when i start dx12 with external gpu it does not start i press play and nothing happens. What can i do about this i was very excited when i first entered dx12 version.

 

DX12 is broken, seriously don't bother with it, those of us with pretty decent PC's are still seeing at least half the framerate in DX12 than we do in DX9.

Honestly It's nothing to get excited about yet, hopefully they fix it and fine tune it in the future.

 

but as i said i got better results with dx12. i mean i prefer 10-15 fps without stutters than 30 fps with 5-6 second freezing.

 

Currently the DX12 version is inferior to the DX9 version, but that's not the point. It has the potential to be better, so it needs us to try it a bit and report back on specifics so DTG can improve it, or go down a different development path.

They've given us the opportunity to be beta testers for DX12, which I applaud. This means some work for us, but we shouldn't pass over the opportunity to shape the future of TSC.

 

I spent a while playing around with settings last night. I noticed that in the DX12 version both Motion Blur and Depth of field had been switched on. I hate them both and I have both turned off in 64 bit.

Turning them off has made a massive difference for me. My frame rates are back to roughly where they were in 64 bit, so it seems for me at least, the DX12 version is very sensitive to certain settings. The only thing I would say is that the frame rate counter is jumping around all the time, much more than usual but with no actual visible effect on the frame rate.

I spent 5 happy hours last night doing return trips on the WCML South and ECML London Peterborough in the rain (I like driving in the rain, don’t ask me why). With RW Enhancer 2 running in the background. Everything looked good, no OOMs + I’m not 100% certain as my eyes were tired, but my perception was less stutters.

So I’ve changed my vote. For me it’s currently running as well as 64 bit on the settings I like to run. Not sure if that’s specific to my set up or not. It maybe a slight improvement, but not enough for me to vote for that.

 

Just make and activate the specific GPU profile for RailworksDX12_x64.exe in addition to game settings. Mine has Max FPS limit at 60 Hz (display's refresh rate) and it is stable all over the time at 2560x1440. Additional bonus is no coil buzz at all game menus as they have no FPS limit.

I can share my profile for NVidia cards if needed. Mine is RTX2070 Super.

 

^^ Could you share your profile please?

 

No backup - no mercy

 

Sorry, but this is a really bad joke. Advertising DX12 by using D3D9on12 is just weird.
With that path, why not use DXVK Native instead? It has much better performance and compatibility than D3D9on12.

 

Not sure if this is DX12 related or not. Yesterday evening I selected to run in 64 bit DX12 - no issues.

Went to play this evening (in normal DX11) and the game starts in a 1920 x 1080 borderless window on my 4K monitor. Previously running at 4k resolution, borderless 3840 x 2160 but when I call up the list of available resolutions the maximum available is 2048 x 1152. What gives?

I've now tried DX12 again and it starts in full screen (borderless) but maximum resolution is only 1920 x 1080.

How the heck do I get my 4K resolution back?

Update:
Switching to full screen in DX12 mode brought back 4K resolution, but full screen is not great as TSC doesn't like it if you have to Alt-Tab to another running app, whereas in borderless that's not an issue.

 

Could you share your profile, please?

 

Make a profile in NVidia control Panel with next settings (I have Win not set to English interface so just go down the list of parameters and set similarly):

Image scaling - None
CUDA processors - All
Anisothropic filtering - 16x
Vsync impulse - OFF
virtual frames - Use application settings
Max FPS - 60
Max FPS on suspend - OFF
Vulkan/OpenGL - Auto
MFAA - Auto
Stream optimisation - ON
Low latency - ON
Power management - Optimal
FXAA - OFF
Smooth Gamma-correction - ON
Smooth Parameters - 8x
Smooth transparency - OFF
Smooth mode - Increase application settings
OpenGL GDI - Auto
Triple bufferization - ON
Texture filtering - Anisotropy - OFF
Texture filtering - Quality - HIGH QUALITY
Texture filtering - Tri-Linear optimisation: ON

 

I'm actually enjoying playing this again, thanks to the DX12 experimental build. I'm getting framerates fluctuating between 36-58 from in-cab, and if I'm helicoptering around 32-40ish depending on route. I have all the settings maxed. I'm also starting the game using the modification "-FPSLimit=60". In the NVIDIA settings I have the anti-tearing option 'on', otherwise application controlled.

PC stats
My OS is Windows 11 home.
Processor 11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-11700K @ 3.60GHz 3.60 GHz
Installed RAM 32.0 GB (31.8 GB usable)
System type 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
Video card Geforce RTX 3070 8 G ram

kind regards,
Dave

 

I noticed in Settle - Carlisle with DX12 that my train kept looking like it was slowing down and then speeding up again and the camera was the same. Once I switched back to the DX9 version, the problem was gone.

 

I'm afraid I have to join the litany of users who notice framerate losses with DX12Xperimental. Below is an example from the Distributed Power scenario in Granger Heartland. The first screenshot is with DX9; the second is with DX12Xperimental:


DX9, expand the thumbnail


DX12, expand the thumbnail

Now, that said, I heartily concur with IronBladder's comment above about DTG allowing us to help improve the breed with this experimental version; THANK YOU DTG and I look forward to all of us helping to bring this old engine into the present.

Dave

 

Thanks for the chance to try this
Specs: Intel Core i5-8400, 32GB DDR4, RTX 2060

My chosen renderer torture test is WCML North 'Carlisle Run' scenario coming out of Glasgow Central. Running at 4k resolution with 2.25x DLDSR.

Performance is consistently 20-30% worse under the DX12 build. Feels like it is adding more issues to CPU overhead because these are lower framerates but GPU usage is still not close to being maxed. On DX9 build I can reach 30fps shortly after pulling out of Glasgow Central, on DX12 I am at 18-25fps nearly all the time.

Currently playing another DX9 game and I know it's comparing apples to oranges but I can easily hit 60fps on this system on DX9 titles at 4k res + 2.25x DLDSR.

This thread prompted me to try DXVK and CPU overhead seems reduced I see performance improvements about 10% average compared to not using DXVK. I can just about maintain 42FPS (within my freesync range) on WCML North in quieter areas at 4k with 1.75x DLDSR. GPU usage is 90-100% under those conditions so nicely balanced.

 

Apologies for not reading through this whole thread as the topics being discussed seem quite disperate.

I have been trying to get the Dx12 version to Launch but not having any luck. The initial splash screen appears when I click to load the game and it has the DX12 text on it but then that window closes and instead of going into the loading process/scenario database sync etc it just disapears and nothing happens.

This occurs both on my laptop and my PC. The PC is a RTX 2070 that I built about 5/6 years ago - so not the latest technology but still capable of running the games I play at good FPS and max detail. So I don't think its the PC thats the limitation and the fact that it won't run on the laptop (even though I've manually set it to run through the NVIDIA card to ensure it doesn't run with the integrated card) suggests I am missing a trick somewhere?

Do I have to change something to get it to run?

 

Look to see if you have a file called d3d9.dll in your Railworks folder, if you do rename it d3d9.dll.OFF or something and then launch the DX12 version again.

You'll have this file if you use or have used in the past RWE / RWE Pro / RWE2 or re-shade.

To return to the normal state of things when you go back to the DX9 64bit version simply remove the .OFF from the end of the file name.

 

Thanks - yes i still have reshade installed. Quite an old version.

i tried deleting the DLL file but same result. is there something else i need to do to remove reshade such as remove the config files etc?

Edit: tried that but no luck

 

No, in my experience of it removing the d3d9.dll (or renaming it) was enough, not sure what's causing your issue then sorry.

 

A little story from my new laptop today to put TSC current state in context:

installed TS Classic, put all grafic settings to full and spawned in London Victoria. 20 frames and the laptop sounds like a plane taking off.... turned down shadows and waterquality. 35 frames and the laptop still sounds like a plane taking off. Checked my task manager... one CPU core is blasting all it has and the GPU is bored at 15% usage.
Installed TSW 3 afterwards, set everything to "ultra" and spawned in London Victoria. 62 Frames and the laptop is
barely making a sound lol.

DTG really needs to get this multi core usage thing going with TSC! The results with modern devices are pathetic.

 

The Base engine that TSC runs on is over 10 years old. So it can only make the most of a single core. Adding Multithread support isn't as simple as flicking a switch, Requires them to pretty much rebuild the game from the ground up. At which point most DLC will stop working.

TSW3 was released only a few years ago, so no duh it will work better on modern systems given it was design when said systems existed.

 

How are people getting on with this build? I still cannot get it to load, crashes on startup

 

Even if it does not crash this 64bit DX12 Experimental Version seems to have been a waste of development resourses for about 94% of the respondents.



I am not sure what causes these bad results

Are they working on a solution, or . . . ? Anyone ?

 

I think it´s time for an update on the TSC core improvements. Holiday season is over and all we have seen so far is "cleaning up old code". This was only a starting step according to DTG.

 

When there is something to update the community with I'm sure we'll get some information. Until then we just require some patience

 

I'm fully confident the team is hard at work...

 

I think it's time you exercised some patience.

 

Just wanted to pop in and say I'm excited to see where the next development goes. Is there anything we can do in the meantime? Would it be helpful to the dev team if you set out some specific tasks? I would imagine if you have us running specific routes and stock/scenarios to keep data more comparable, this could be more valuable.

I wonder if there's a way for us to run something in the background that can gather data about the game performance maybe?

 

WCML South - Watford to Euston with Class 86 and Mk3 rake.

DX9 - steady 100fps
DX12 - around 50-60 fps

It's certainly a reduction in frames but still playable. No special settings, just straight out of box. Will be sticking with DX9 though.

System specs:
i9 - 13900K
32GB DDR5 RAM
24GB RTX 4090 OC
M.2 drives

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that your specs may be a bit of an outlier

 

Is there a thread for the core updates on their own? Since I have an install away from steam interference can someone from the team advise me which files are needed to update this install, please? Also, has a fix been implemented for the thumbnails freezing the game out?

 

There is the beta area? and i think the thumbnail issue was fixed a while ago?
Public Beta | Dovetail Games Forums

 

Thanks, Dan mate, I'll make my inquiry there.

 

Lucky you some times on that route my FPS drops to about 7 and thats 64-bit mode