That wouldn't be possible because unless AP give permission to use those sounds looks like we have what we have for now.
While it's frustrating regarding the proper sounds, I think it's even more frustrating that if they have to source alternate sounds, then at least these have got to be a bit realistic compared to the real thing too. Thus, I echo what others have already said, why was the Electrostar sounds not used instead, surely more realistic, no?
Imo I've always said, if the sounds can't be correctly/accurately sourced there's no point pursuing the project. Sounds harsh but we've been here too many times now and DTG know how we feel about accuracy in sounds. To be released as TSW4 is very disappointing.
Ugghh this is such bad PR before release. Marketing should know better if they're going to sucker people into buying sub par elements, DON'T show off the bad parts before release. Just show pictures and apologize after it has been purchased. I mean the apology team has certainly got their procedures down to perfection after so many years of practice and experience.
Imo I'd rather have brilliant DLC even if it meant limited DLC (Which won't happen because the business needs to make money).
Despite my enthusiasm for TSW4, kind of disappointing to hear this regarding sounds on this unit. Sounds like a bit of a slip in the planning, going ahead without knowing they could get access to record the audio. I'm definitely with the view if the Electrostar is closer, beef up the volume and use those instead - pending a return trip to Austria to collect samples from the real thing.
I'd wager outside these forums 90% of player either won't notice/care of the sounds aren't 100%. Even here in the forum many would rather see a route they want with incorrect sounds then no route at all. If the sounds of the 4024 is a red line for your purchasing decision then leave this on the shelf. But personally I'd rather have this route as it is then never at all.
I can understand your point of view, we as passionate players all want the most authentic of simulator experience. But, I don't agree at all that a project should be abandoned just because of one factor. Echoing others comments, there are loads of routes/rolling stock I've love to see in TSW, and would rather have them than never at all if it means some enjoyable, long-term gameplay. .
Literally this. I couldn't care less if the sounds aren't 100% accurate, as long as they are believable. The vast majority of the player base, aka the normal people, not the hardcore train enthusiasts aren't going to notice, or care. I would have no idea whatsoever these aren't the accurate audio if this thread hadn't been made. I'd rather have interesting routes and trains, even if the audio is slightly wrong. Than have the options of DLC massively limited.
Even Skyhook’s COVID excuse for the 187 is reasonable compared to this complete farce! I can’t believe people are trying to defend DTG either- they are fully to blame. It’s pretty simple really, no recordings = no release… it’s downhill from here I reckon!
It's even simpler. People want the train/routes. Majority of people will not notice the audio isn't 100% accurate.
I would've agreed with you if this was the first TSW. We're several years into this now, I would've thought lessons would've been learnt.
I’m glad we have players that give constructive criticism. Thats how it works. That’s why the forums are for That’s how we are getting a new time table for NYT. We spoke up.. The whole reason that the ECML is not getting a 800 was sound. They only had the 801 available. So then why not make the 800 LNER with 801 sounds. Why? Because players would jump all over DTG.
There's constructive criticism, then there is nit picking to be honest. People saying if you can't get 100% accurate audio, don't make the train aren't being constructive. I think the issue with the 800/801 is there are some internal/cab differences as well?
Im sure if they just would have used the 377 sounds nobody would have noticed and this thread never existed . To me the route is a big surprise, would be ashame to not have austria just because öbb blocked the recording session. Thats what mods are for. No annoyance from my side.
Yeah, obviously ideally the audio would be 100% accurate. Maybe they will swap the audio, but that might also be a permissions thing. But if it's a choice between non accurate audio, and not having the train at all? I'd rather have non accurate audio.
Yeah the word believable is a good way to say it. I'd much rather have a route or a train than have it skipped just because the sounds couldn't be recorded. I'm no audio engineer, but I'm sure it's a lot more involved than just holding a microphone at something. I'm grateful for all the true recording trips that HAVE been allowed. These companies/agencies have legit railroads to run. DTG getting access to an actual train and taking it out on a sound recording trip is not something we should expect. It's something we should be grateful for when it is allowed. I'm more of a big picture player. I want the overall experience to be fun, somewhat challenging and believable. I'm reminded of the Class 700 sounds. I forgot all about how they aren't actual 700 sounds until right now. That's because it's a believable experience. I'll make my judgement from the driver's seat next month.
TSW was created as a franchise to be the most realistic simulator yet. Most realistic means correct sounds. I realise DTG no longer care about realism and are turning TSW into a toy for console users (so be it), but the least you can expect are correct sounds. If completely, unapologetically wrong sounds are ok because ‘it’s Austrian’ why not make any route, stick any train on and it’ll clearly be fine cause it’s a nice new route. Luckily I’m on PC so mods may fix the sounds. I feel for console players who actually care here though!
The obvious copy-paste of the 442 sound is really a shame, I would have expected more. They had a similar problem with the 628, where they used the sounds of the 612, which were clearly modified so that it sounded more like the 628 at least. However, no changes have been made here, at least what you can hear in the video. After the messed up sound of the BR103, which simply sounds like the BR110, now a further messing up of existing tones. It's really a shame, since the sound in particular makes a massive contribution to the immersion.
In other words, you would prefer to have had no new trains at all from 2020-2022, since NO TOC was permitting sound surveys thanks to Covid.
Not every player is going to be bothered by this, to deny everyone because of some players have all or nothing standards means we all lose. If DTG had that approach and with OBB not allowing recording trips, then we can pretty much write-off all Austrian trains that don't have identical counterparts elsewhere that DTG can get access to and probably Austrian rotes as a result. For me that it sounds like a modern EMU is enough. Yes it may be inaccurate (I have no idea what these sound like irl) but its understandable why.
The 103 sounds quite close to the real thing. It does sound rather like a 110 IRL (unsurprising, given its design history).
I, for one, neither know, nor care wether the sounds are wrong. At the end of the day, I'm sat looking at a pc screen listening to motor noises through £20 headsets that make everything tinny. As long as it makes a noise that even sounds remotely train like, I'm sold. Most realistic means more realistic than the others.
Yeah it really sounds terrible. The "ÖBB didn't let us do a sound recording" excuse is laughable...didn't DTG think of sorting that out before signing off on the project or, worst case scenario, creating their own sound from a different source that sounds at least somewhat realistic and doesn't drown out all other sounds? (BTW, what's the excuse for the 187s, still unresolved, cat in heat shriek?) I can put up with a lot of imperfections but come on DTG get the traction motor sounds to at least approximate what they sound like in reality and make sure that wheel/track sound effects are audible across all DLCs. The German routes are particularly bad for train wheels on jointed track and crossing switches making no sound whatsoever.
Weird angle you're coming from there. So if they hid the bad parts and covered them up until customers found out about it themselves after purchasing the product that would make it ok? That's not the point at all.
I'm prepared to believe that DTG made every effort to get the authentic sounds for the Talent 1 and were expecting to make a recording trip to Austria but, after committing to the route, they were unable to work it out. They certainly made every effort to get the sounds for the Vectron, too. Think about it. They made the 5,500 mile trip out to LA to get those F125 sounds, so they are obviously keen to get the authentic audio if they possibly can. So we should give them a muilligan on the Austrian loco sounds. Fortunately for me, I don't know what the Talent 1 sounds like. Whatever. The purists can moan, I'll just enjoy the scenery.
No... just no. Because. At the end of the day, a train isn't a car, you can't just turn up and spin it round the block and get what you need. The OBB might be fine with DTG clambering all over a train, but for the rest of the sounds, you have to strap mics to a train and run it round a circuit, that's alot more organisational planning for both parties, OBB might not be able to spare a train/ crew/ whatever on that day. Look at ECML and the fact that LNER couldn't guarantee what train they would get on the day. It is what it is, and with modern trains, their service requirements will ALWAYS top simulator devs.
Have they tried making a 4124. Also they should be looking at 1016/1116 being the new basis for the 182
I think he means if there is no sound when a wheelset is passing a switch, you would usually hear the small gaps etc. .., jointed tracks is something different and you will be lucky to find them. At my hometown thre are still 2-3, but its just the depot sinding into the mainline.
Even before the release of TSW4, its already a dilemma. Of course DTG cant be blamed that OBB couldn't offer a recording trip. But im sure that was the case on locos before and that didn't stop them from developing and synthesize sounds if recordings weren't available. Sorry to say but it feels (again) like they couldn't be bothered. Now they coming around with a new game and one of their release 'flagships' gets a complete recycled sound that doesn't fit. Compared to the Vectron, where they told us that they recorded sounds, which will probably bring us the authentic sound we looking for. It just feels wrong to just recycle sounds for another train that should represent the step up they are telling us TSW4 is. And with that a clear difference of quality within their product.
If it comes from the concept of releasing DLC with only real sounds, we will never see historical content and some of the modern content that is not available. At present, there are digital technologies with which you can simulate a sound that is close to realistic. Not perfect, but similar, which will allow you to create the atmosphere of this locomotive. I urge some forum members to refrain from making categorical statements about preventing the release of DLC with unrealistic sounds or other simulations. Most members of the TSW community do not support this approach. With this approach, we now would not have stock 1938, BR187, BR 385, BR700, some steam locomotives and much more.
Musing further on this overnight, taken in isolation one would say they did the best they could. However a couple of questions still arise. This is not the first instance where the audio department has dropped the ball, following on from the debacle with the Class 700 where they had sourced quality sounds but implemented a rather poor mix with very low volume level and noticeable clipping. Still only barely acknowledged and not yet fixed. Even if OBB declined access for pro recordings, the sound engineer should still have spent a day travelling on the units, gathering clips for reference (not to use) and committing the sound nuances to memory so that once back in the studio, he knew what to do with the resources that were available. If they have used the 442 sounds then sobeit for now, but at least beef up the volume (we don’t want another near silent RT style 1442) and smooth out any jaggies or clipping. It’s also rather poor planning from the PR POV to make your first stream the route and train where you have to admit the sounds aren’t up to snuff. Let’s just hope Metrolink, the Azuma and Flying Scotsman fare better.
DTG not being able to get the correct sounds is understandable but then I wonder why not just get a team to get reference for the sounds of the 4024 by other ways. It could've been through online videos or trackside recordings at stations and perhaps even on board the train. It wouldn't have been perfect but would've been a decent compromise as they have done in the past. This frankly feels like it was poorly planned and frankly DTG bears responsibly as others have said Also I do agree that if they had planned ahead and couldn't get proper sounds or close to proper sounds for this route or any recordings of that nature, than this particular train shouldn't have been made. That doesn't mean that we couldn’t get an Austrian route in the game. There are many other routes and trains in Austria but the fact that they basically recycled sounds from the talent 2 which shares no resemblance sound wise from this train is frankly embarrassing for a game that advertises itself as being an authentic simulation. This really reminds me of the DB BR 187 debacle
I mean the initial wine it kinda does but as the train accelerates more, the sounds are completely different and thus are not the same. You can't recycle the complete soundset of the 377 but tweaks can be done
That's not how you make audio recordings. Youtube audio is already compressed a few times. How are you going to record on a train without permission? The only sound you can record than is from a passenger seat.
We are not talking about using them. We are talking about obtaining as a reference to use with the sounds you do have access to. I don’t think any train operator is going to notice or care if a passenger has a mobile phone or old style tape recorder with microphone sticking out the bag!
This comment completely miss the point. Firstly, you’re pulling numbers out of your a$$, secondly, this isn't about sounds not being 100% accurate (nobody expects perfection from a game), thirdly, some posters in this thread, myself included, have already pre-ordered TSW4. And, finally, what you’re really saying with the “just don’t buy it” attitude is that customers should not expect a decent product for their hard-earned money and are obligated to silently accept a company’s subpar cr@p, while the company OTOH has no obligation whatsoever to provide its paying customers with a quality product. If you really believe that you are a fool. I have a far higher tolerance than many who post here for TSW’s imperfections and DTG’s corner cutting and empty promises but ffs at least make sure the motor and wheel/track sounds are halfway realistic before releasing a new product. It’s not that difficult.
It's about getting the audio that DTG could've gotten to use as reference to make the sounds of the 4024. I don't believe for a second that OBB is going to sue DTG for recording a train leaving the station for instance or recording inside a train as a passenger. Maybe they could've used a third party as well But this then goes back to planning. If DTG is gonna advertise their product the way they do and couldn't get proper sounds before making the route, then they should've made a different train or a different route perhaps as well. This is frankly poor planning and whilst understandable, it doesn't absolve DTG of blame. I don't get why people keep trying to make excuses for DTG on this matter
And how is that a reference? That's muffled audio recorded with a mobile phone or even worse if it's an old style tape recorder. Plus you will have the recording of how a train sounds from a passenger cab. Not a reference to how it sounds in the cockpit
Yes, it still exists. Have you ridden trains in Germany? But even on sections with no joints, trains still pass over switches/points and they don’t do so completely silently.
A decent audio engineer would also commit the nuances to memory. I would rather have the cab sound based on a reference recording from the passenger saloon and louder so I can hear it, than aliased from something else and a poor mix to boot. We need to stop making excuses for DTG on this. Yes to many people one EMU sounds like another but extend this to your favourite diesel loco, imagine the outcry if they created a UK Class 26 but aliased it to a GM 567 power plant?
Agree with OldVern’s post above on this. Also, as a last resort they could have used the sound of the German BR 442 and modified it digitally. It’s not like there is a copyright on traction motor sounds and they have to worry about DB suing them.
Exactly this. As I’ve posted elsewhere I have preordered TSW4 and greatly looking forward to it. Have also expressed my appreciation of the behind the scenes staff working on the content. However that does not extend to excusing the continuing poor performance of the audio team. As I said previously look no further than the Class 700 sounds and now here less than a couple on months later we have the same situation arising with the flagship train on a new flagship route.
But do you understand how audio works? Because that way you will get the same complaints that it doesn't sound like the real train. We've moved from a mobile phone to record to an audio engineer. I would suggest trying this for yourself the next time you take a train.
Man, I'm so glad I haven't preordered ... It's the same story over and over and over again. Just saying, but disappointments piling up. Besides though, this could have been solved I some one just had a listen to a Talent 1 and then choosing suitable sounds from your back catalog (fx Electrostars) and nobody except the super geeks would have noticed. But choosing completely different sounds ... wow that is just aweful.
I think we're safe to bang on the sound drum. DTG would never consider it as an option. It's a business that needs to make money. But doesn't the community want an immersive experience in Train Sim World? You can't get that if the sounds are recycled and poorly mixed. I accept we can't always have perfection but this recent issue is not the first time and for it to be showcased as TSW4 is a tad embarrassing imo.
So using completely inaccurate sounds from a train that doesn't sound like the 4024 Talent 1 is better and totally not embarrassing? DTG should have the experience to not end up in these situations or at least I and others would think after more than 6 and a half years of the tsw franchise being out or is that too unreasonable?
I'm sure that the professional sound recordings of different train will sound more authentic than the audio sourced from YouTube, mobile phone or without a real plan of what it is exactly what you want to record. Sound is really complex. I never record audio outside a studio because only in a studio you can control everything. Although I have the professional equipment I would not even start thinking of recording train sounds to have the same sound you have in the cockpit because that's the sound that matters to me the most when playing TSW. It's way too difficult without having access to everything you want to record.
