Excuse me? I'm asking a question. Stop being so aggressive I really would like to know who here really hears the difference when not pointed out. What is trolling about this question?
Come on ... you know, one can here a difference - a lot of people geek, more or less, about trains and quite a lot know the difference. So clearly, this question is a litte offensive. Sure not everybody but still.
I'm not trying to prove anything. But you did answer my question. I just want to know how I can compare this with the same discussions about Formula 1 engines. Because I don't get that discussion either. No I don't and that is why I am asking this question. The only engine sound I ever picked up from this game is the 700 as it sounds like a sirene. Do me a blind test and I can only tell you that one. Edit I am not talking about hearing the difference between a video and and another video. That was not my question. I meant if you would not know would you notice? Nothing to prove. Just wanting to know how severe this problem actually is to a casual gamer not roaming this forum.
You want me to believe, you can't here a difference between a DB BR 101, Electrostar or a Talent 2 in game? Actually that would concern me health wise. There are big differences. And yes, it helps knowing how they sound IRL but even if you don't have any clue, there is a hearable difference between the trains. Thats why it is upsetting to hear the Talent 2 sounds on a Talent 1 which should really sound completely different.
So it's offensive to ask how skilled people are in hearing the differences but it's not offensive to questions one hearing? I had a lot of discussions about audio on this forum. People not claiming to hearing these issues, others acknowledging them. Those issues were more severe than not the authentic engine so if such things are not being picked up by players I doubt a lot of players will hear what an authentic train engine sounds like. Honestly if it sounds like a train (in the right era) it's fine by me. I would pick it up if every train sounds the same but that's not the case.
More like the 26th. At least, I'm assuming anything shown before then will still be work-in-progress versions.
The first thing I did when the train got revealed was to do research on it (mainly to know if it has PZB, and therefore is worth even trying), looked at a video on YouTube, it wasn't "Br420 type sounds" so I clicked off fairly quickly. Then I saw the proper trailer a week later and immediately heard that the sound is wrong and came from the Talent 2. Also, I've played the Talent 2 for maybe 3 hours at most, and I usually have music going in the background, but I still instantly knew that the sound came from the Talent 2.
Well, this is just a statement on the quality you are accepting, which seems to be pretty much the level of DTG. That is fine with me. But I expect more from a "realistic" simulation. I find joy in that, to even have a realistic audible experience when driving a simulated train. And it bugs me, when its not. But I still think your question is still invalid, since this whole thread is just about that, that there are some players who do want DTG trains to have a somewhat realistic audible representation in game.
How can a question be invalid? It's never wrong to ask questions to understand issues. By asking this question it's now clear to me that it has nothing to do with my hearing and that if not pointed out most people won't hear it. I'm an audio professional so when I read that YouTube videos and mobile phone recordings will offer a reference point for better sound quality you can't blame me for trying to figure out how serious this discussion actually is. I'm not a train professional so that's the part where some gaps still needed to be filled in.
Well, if you read the discussion about how the sounds were obtained for the Metrolink F125, you could not say that there was a lack of skill nor sophisticated audio equipment. And, given the amount of time the team spent in L.A. and the time spent back in the " studio ",neither can you talk about time restraints. I have the feeling that the three routes we'll see later this month had a significantly longer dev time than most other recent routes. Of course, these efforts may not necessarily be true for Voralberg and the Talent 1. I don't know. But I'm not prepared to suggest that DTG are guilty of lack of effort, skill or time. I'm sometimes a pretty harsh critic but, given what I've read, for once I believe that DTG made a good faith effort.
That’s fine, but it’s not really the point. They are selling a ‘authentic rail simulator’ and half of the stuff included is completely wrong. I really don’t want people to just accept it because they don’t know exactly what it sounds like in real life. DTG would love not having to produce realistic train sounds.
Half means 50%. Can you please provide that list (a book full of listed assets with their issues described), i really want to see that list. Not mentioned that you might need half a year to create it (but that's your problem as it is your thesis). Fun fact: it is way easier to create the sound for a train when having the recordings from a real train than creating a train sound from a pool of not related sounds. So again, a thesis that needs to being proved first.
I think you should stop taking things personally, no one is accusing you of anything & everyone with a sensible head knows where these issues are coming from.
A note on a realism. The almighty God of German rail simulation - Zusi - does in fact re-use unrealistic sound sets for quite a few locos. That’s not to say that I’m thrilled about this situation. I do think the notion of “most people wouldn’t know either way” is a dangerous, slippery slope (they also don’t know the physics, the location and style of stations, what rolling stock even runs there, … until nothing is left of the sim). Economically, I see the point though. I sincerely hope DTG has plans to revisit the sounds for the Talent 1, though I doubt it. I want DTG to do better than this. But, if it’s between this compromise and not developing many trains (in the face of recording trips becoming increasingly difficult), then let’s just say I’d rather have TSW than not. Also, the Br 628 shows what modified, re-used sounds can achieve. Ideally, this won’t become the norm though. Anyways, that’s enough of me rambling on. I’m most excited about the Vectron (and perhaps Flying Scotsman), so the dent in my excitement isn’t too large.
Agree. I hate that the Devs are put in this position. Is not the Devs fault. They do their best with what they got. I stated my point and that is towards DTG and Not the Devs.
It feels like you are taking things way too personally and not understanding the customers point of view. We're not saying it's your fault at all. Heck in my post I did say it was understandable but that doesn't mean people shouldn't blame DTG who ultimately are the ones that decided to make and approve of this route and train when they couldn't get proper sound recordings. I also have to say that some of your posts here are quite baffling. I don't think for a second that making sounds are quite easy but to try to excuse the matter saying that not everyone will care about the sounds is frankly absurd. Look what happened to the DB BR 187. That train got extremely negative reviews because of the sound. If DTG is going to advertise the product the way they do and charge the prices that they charge, the customer's expectations on sound aren't unreasonable. It's frankly expecting what it's advertised. Doesn't have to be 100% accurate but still... If DTG can't do that, then they should've made a different product or advertise this game as not an authentic recreation of trains and routes.
Im really not searching for somebody to blame, infact for me sound makes the whole immersion. Wrong sounds also dont make a product bad. The 187 with soundmod became one of my favourite. Since the players arent actually in that train and cant feel the movement, in simulation, a vehicle stands or falls with realistic & good sounds. The visually superb 1938 tube stock failed entirely because driving it sounded like a para glider on magnet rails. (No running sounds etc). There was an impression of not sitting in that train instead reminding the player that you press buttons on a keyboard. As final opinion i cant share "sounds just have to be there somehow". A bad sound environement kills the experience. As far i could listen to the trailer "just" the traction sounds were off, could be provided from the electrostar..
I'm sure that someone will make a soundpack/mod for the 4024 which will be good for pc players. But if that does indeed happen, then how in the world can a company that is owned by multi million dollar publisher and gets millions in profits not be able to do that? It would be even more embarrassing and frankly outrageous
Yes they do which makes it even more baffling if a modder can do something that a studio with many resources can not
Something else: the fact this train comes from tsg/maik is a good sign at all. His creations were always on the top side of the quality bar, and going the extra mile in details. If ÖBB dont want to get any free advertisement, well so im sure other operators are gonna allow recording sessions.
Its like buying a Flightsim aircraft dlc. Lets say; 787 dreamliner. And you find out it sounds like a Fokker 70/100.. Its still nice to fly but the immersive part of the simulation is gone... at least for me. But hey, who cares as all the casual gamers dont know how a 787 sounds let a alone know what a Fokker 100 is. To bad for me i'm one of the guys who really value realistic and authentic sounds to enjoy the "Simulator".
If you want to hear what it takes in terms of time, skill and equipment to record fully authentic sounds for a train, re-read the discussion in the Roadmap about how they were obtained for the Metrolink trainset. If DTG couldn't get that kind of access for the Talent1, they wouldn't have been able to record accurate sounds. There may be alternatives but none of them would likely have satisfied the people complaining the loudest in this and other threads..
We all know that tsg products are usually top notch, but some of the excuses being made to try to justify this didn’t feel right or completely missed the point. Sure, you can make a train look so amazing, but the experience can be spoiled with bad sounds
Theres a lot of space between using sounds from the wrong train & doing a full in-depth recording session on the real thing.
I don't think this would be the case if DTG found a different way and explained why the train doesn't fully sound like a Talent 1. Nobody here from what I've seen is expecting a fully realistic soundset for the Talent 1, nor did anyone say it was easy to make sounds but as others said, the intinal wine does sound like an electrostar which does mean they have some material or refrence to use. I can almost guarantee that someone will make a mod for this train so again, if DTG weren't able or for some reason don't have material for the sounds of this train, then perhaps they shouldn't have made this train or used other methods as a compromise and then just simply explain. They shouldn't have ripped sounds from a Talent 2 which sounds nothing like a Talent 1
But it all comes down to the simple fact that a 4024 with non-authentic sounds won't hurt sales anywhere near as much as the route coming without the 4024 just because a proper sound set is missing... out of the potential customers the number of those who'd recognize the Talent 1 as the proper train for the S-Bahn services is significantly higher than those who'd spot the non-authentic sound. So from a business point of view you'd have the following decisions: - the current situation - accept customer annoyance because of the sound, release the route anyway with the proper train - leave the Talent out of the product, put the dev hours to waste, release the route with reused trains only and skip the S-Bahn services as there is no alternative available - demolish the whole route and develop something else fast, because the product needs to be released with 3 base routes. Could be quite funny amongst the dev teams. I think it's quite clear which is the best alternative for a business - as far as I'd like the Talent sounds to be as accurate as possible I wouldn't hesitate for a minute in order to make that decision for my product as well... ... and we still have Maiks magic and none of us has played the final product yet
This one's easy. Modders are volunteers working for fun who answer only to themselves regarding deadlines, budgets, working hours, etc. And in the context of this discussion, they're free to use Youtube/phone quality sound if they want to. Being a big studio has advantages, but also comes with expectations and its own limitations.
Here is another option... DTG should stop advertising this game as a "highly immersive rail simulator featuring authentic routes and trains from around the world". That would go a very long way to be honest
And yet there doesn't seem to be a consensus among the many complainers as to which of the alternatives to use to fill that space. Maybe DTG's choice of a solution will be as good as any when we hear it on our PC's/ consoles. ( the stream will not be a good sample ).
Where there is a will, there is a way. Heck, perhaps they can get a modder on board who would almost certainly make a soundset for this train and implement that into the game for instance. I'm not believing for a second OBB would sue the pants out of DTG over sounds.
As happened with the Class 700 sounds where the mod restored a decent audio level and overall quality was better. As said earlier, I would have more faith in DTG to address this if they had sorted out the 700 but all we got was one curt acknowledgement and nothing official since that it's even been worked on (or they are talkin with the modder).
But honesty doesn't sell too well It might have been a bit of an alarm sign that we got sound samples of every other new train in the first preview though...
You totally forgot the licencing stuff. A modder normally does not own the files they use and most of them do not even care about such things. They grab them from the net and simply use them without any licencing or asking. If a company like DTG would do that, this would cause massive problems. And even if a modder would work for/with DTG to make the sound, they would need to get licences for the files or own sound recordings to use then.
Yes because OBB or any rail company would waste so much money and sue over recordings of sounds of their own trains in the public domain or some railfan would sue over sounds being used in a game. Totally makes sense and definitely doesn't sound absurd at all.... I wonder why I've never heard of cases like that in a courtroom It's a sound of a train, not lyrics of a song
Sorry, but you don't understand the real problem. It is not about what is in the file (the actual audible waves, not normally but could also be a case), it is about who made the recordings. If i would grab audio from YT i would need to get a licence from the uploader and maybe also from the one who actually did the recordings. Both, or one of them are owning the rights of the files. The sounds per se are not protected as long it is not a trademark sound or a voice of a person.
Most likely not a train company, no. But a content creator on Youtube or anywhere else could do that legitimately as money is being earned with his source files... and that's going to get expensive for a company. Really expensive. Not as expensive as buying a real Talent 1 probably but close...
From my experience at least from some mods in tsc, modders who use sounds usually record the trains themselves and just upload them for free. They aren't exactly just ripping them from youtube videos. I'm sure DTG could get one on board and get some reference material for a train that doesn't violate any copyright. It shouldn't be this complicated for a multi million dollar studio to do. I am not missing the point
That’s certainly an odd take, here I was thinking I was the consumer, not the developer. Silly me, expecting this ‘authentic’ simulation to have true to life rolling stock.
Indeed. The sounds used should be those closest to the prototype, in this case (apparently) the 377/387 Electrostar. Still a poor substitute for actually getting the correct sounds, however sourced.
Yeah for all of this arguing folks have been making about how authentic sounds are hard to get and all, we’ve literally gotten our solution mentioned on page 1 of this thread. The problem: The sounds are copy-pasted from a train that does not sound like the Talent 1 (in this case, they’re from the Talent 2) The solution: The sounds should be copy-pasted from a train that DOES sound like the Talent 1 (in this case the Class 377)
Well, that's a shame but not a surprise. It's up to the people now on whether they want this route or not. I know what I'm gonna do
