Enough Is Enough!!!

i assume people want whole new train driving "alternative life" in this game but actually it is nothing more than programmed file.
deal with it. what do all the people expect on this kind of small market that only raildriver remains?

 

You’re pretty much making my point for me at this stage;

I don’t have a problem with TSW4, never have had. I used to really look forward to the annual refresh for TSC and the early days of TSW. I get what it is and why it’s done. The problem I have is with this pretence that it’s a ‘new’ game on the one hand, and the locking of features and fixes that were promised to players for content released under the TSW3 moniker (before you ask, the 700 stop boards are just one example) that are now locked behind an arbitrary paywall. Additionally, it’s the blocking of being able to purchase any further content unless you pay for this forced change.

The car analogy I made weeks ago is absolutely valid. If I take my car with 4 worn tyres to have it resprayed and a new sound system fitted, it isn’t a different car. It is the same car with a new coat of paint and a new sound system. Unfortunately the tyres are still worn. This is what you get with TSW4.

This isn’t just a DTG thing though, the whole gaming industry has somehow managed not only to convince consumers to effectively buy the same product over and over again, but to do so on an annual basis. It’s the fact that many of those consumers can’t (or won’t) see that and apply just a little bit of discretion that is the saddest part.

 

It's frustrating to have to make the same point over and over again! I totally agree with you. It's not about TSW4 costing, or beeing "a new game". It's the consequence which comes with this step. For me it is also the behavior, that they haven't said anything about TSW4 beeing on the horizon, despite working on it for a long time. For myself I will asume, that we will see new TSW numbers every year in september. But I still wish DTG would be upfront with that by themselfs.

 

Blame EA for all this, they started this bs of locking updates behind yearly paywalls of £100

 

I play;
Football Manager- Another one that gets a yearly update though what you get for your money is still pretty darn good and it's the free mods that make the game.
Cities Skylines - About to get its first new version after 10 years - Stunning value for money.
MS Flight Simulator- Facing a relaunch next year but will keep supporting the old version until 2030 and you can take your existing paid DLC into the new game.
Train Sim Classic - Did the same thing as TSW for 15 years and has arguably had more quality and stability issues than TSW but thanks to the editor most players seem to be making scenarios for freeware and TP content these days.
Transport Fever - Into its second version in 6 years, amazing value for money with so many free mods.

With that background I'm relatively calm about TSW4 now. If it was just new routes and a few stupid little new features, I'd avoid it, but this one brings a better scenario creator, better livery editor and the all important Editor. When it gets to the point TSC did a few years ago and the annual update is just 2-3 new routes, then we will be able to miss annual re-release. Personally I think TSW4 brings the game out of a beta state and will be the one that future TSW users will need to buy. It's just a shame so many of us are so strapped for cash but all hobbies cost money I'm afraid.

 

It also comes down to consumers doing their research. When I finally decided to bite the bullet for this game I was already aware that this game will keep demanding money of you. I also was aware the game comes with many routes that have bugs that were never fixed. It's things you should have known before buying this game. DTG not holding up to their promises is not something that surprises me. Is it really the people that defend TSW4 that are delusional or is it the people that bought into this game thinking DTG would stop demanding money for TSW along the way?

 

Also another thing I've noticed is that whenever they start work on a new game they tell us “we’re gonna take time to work on fixes and improvements to existing content” they said this at the end of tsw 2 and they said it again before the 700 and Glossop line released. Why is that their go to cover up?

 

Because people swallow it hook, line and sinker every year.

 

I don't know. But it is exactly what you write. I'm still mad though with the offering this year and the missing stand-alone version without the new routes. At least that would enable me to buy more routes in the future, if I desire that. Actually thinking about this it enrages me again -.-

 

That is true! Maybe we should consider this as red flag for this winter, that TSW 5 will come

 

My man, this is literally just a patch. If I make some changes in my software and press rebuild on it, it does not make a new software. I merely just released a patch for my exsisting one.

If you feel like paying money for it, good for you. But this is not a new game. This is a patch re-released as a "new game".

Comparing TSW to Bethesda games is funny. I would like to see unmodified Skyrim content run in Fallout...
But your FIFA analogy is fine, because it's exactly the same thing. But even FIFA makes more sense, because at least in FIFA you get an updated team roster each year. And in FIFA you are not expecting a live service with DLCs across different releases.

 

Who is comparing Bethesda games to TSW? We were discussing how opinions can differ about what is a new game. But if you want to compare it. A lack of polish, outdated in a lot of areas and still a lot of bugs. What game am I talking about?

 

By the way, I've watched the streams. The mini hud and Editor are precisely what I wanted and there's a noticeable lack of stutters. I'm feeling more positive about TSW4 now.

 

Ride 5, MK1 and now this, once of pre-order stature now reduced to bargain bin pick-ups. Well, maybe not MK...
There's some bits I like but it's not enough. Doesn't look good to me, which is a shame. Not angry, just disappointed.

 

The second one.

 

Whenever they announce a new game, I take that as they have fixed the bugs and improved existing content, which needs a new game to work fully.

But sometimes I still encounter those bugs, so my statement above doesn't really hold any value.

 

Right, for heaven's sake. Call it what you want, a new game, a revision, an update, whatever. It's a trio of new routes and locos, a plethora of core and UI changes and, finally, a public editor. All that for the price of an average breakfast for two at your local diner.

The important discussion should be about the quality of the content, which can really only begin on 9/21 when it gets installed on pc's and consoles.

 

Recalling the angst over the lack of editor, oft mentioned in these pages, the fact we are finally getting one is in my opinion, enough of a development to warrant a new version, it could be a game changer for the sim. It seems to be conveniently not being mentioned in some quarters though.

 

console players aren't able to use the editor so its pc only, which makes sense and im not complaining about that, but they still have to buy the new version of the game
the editor is also a separate download on epic games that I don't think needed a new version of tsw for it to be released (unless dovetail had a reason for it)

 

All together now…

’the editor is separate to, and does not come with, the game’

Repeat 100 times.

 

Which is odd, because there's a few people here who I would have expected to be all about an editor that lets them back up their words with actions. But maybe they're forming a team via DM as we speak and will soon be blowing us all away.

Just making a guess here, but if the editor is what DTG's devs have been using to create TSW4 material, then maybe it's unable to work with anything TSW3, so releasing it earlier wouldn't work.

 

but isn't it on the same game engine?

 

I'm waiting for the other 99.......
When people mention the editor in the same sentence as talking about the release of TSW4, it does not mean they are idiots and think that they're getting an in-game editor on the day of release and will be able to build the entire Orient Express with rolling stock by the end of the first week.

It would be lovely to come in here from time to time and enjoy a more collegiate approach to conversation and learning rather than a few who can come across as having a superiority complex or seem to revel in pedantry.

 

TSC started in small steps, I remember the route building challenge and some lovely GWR engines first appearing, with the black five cab and sounds but lovely models. Now look at the amount of freeware available for TSC, just from a UK point of view, let alone around the world. I recall conversations early on in the days of Rail Simulator where many were saying we would never see the amount of freeware we saw in MSTS, possibly not in terms of locos and stock but we have with routes and other assets. Also the amount of payware providers who probably cut their teeth messing around in the editor.

I suspect TSW is indeed a much harder sim to make things in as it is so much more detail and I don't expect it to reach the heights TSC has but nonetheless I think there could be some very interesting creations ahead.

 

Merely pointing out, to the people that keep listing ‘the editor’ as part of the justification for calling TSW4 a new game, that the editor is entirely separate from the game.

DTG aren’t stupid. By announcing their editor being publicly available on the same day as TSW4 releases they knew the two would be associated, and given the number of people who have clearly made that association it worked a treat.

 

That and the fact the editor only works with the TSW4 cooked versions of the content, so it is linked to TSW4.

 

Indeed. Funny/convenient how that turned out is it not?

 

If you're a conspiracy theorist maybe. You ever thought that the editor is the entire reason they've done TSW4 a year early?

 

couldn't of they released it for tsw3? i dont think it was designed specifically for tsw4

 

They said it wouldn't work for TSW3 files, I assume that was for a reason beyond simply "we want to sell TSW4".
As if it would cost them nothing to have it work for both, it would be worth it for the community goodwill alone.

 

then what happens when tsw5 is released? does it only work for the specific version is was designed for?
also where did they say it wouldn't work for tsw3 files? i dont know much about this so im curious to how it works and what will happen in future

 

Merely pointing out........... but doing so in a totally disdainful way. I'm not sure why people calling TSW4 "a new game" rattled you so much. It's a new game or it's a new version of an existing game or it's whatever you want to call it. Some people are looking forward to it, let them have their fun.

 

Sure, because they made it not work for TSW3 files. It is literally their own editor. How do you think they made TSW, TSW2 and TSW3 if it doesn't work with pre-TSW4 files?

So I can assure you, my man - the only reason for it not working with pre-TSW4 content is so they can sell more TSW4 copies. If you have been following DTG since the release of TSW, it's clear as day that all that matters to them is to sell more and more copies as cheaply as they can. Community goodwill or pride in their releases does not matter to those who makes these calls (not the devs, but the higher ups making the decisions).

 

Only got DTG’s word for that. I can’t see why it couldn’t work with TSW 3 seeing as both TSW 3 and TSW 4 use the exact same game engine version.

 

It's a version of the Unreal Editor that DTG has heavily modified for their own purposes. Earlier versions of the editor would have created earlier versions of the game, and as their needs for TSW changed, the editor was changed to fit those needs. Not a stretch.

 

2018 M3

2019 M3

2020 M3


Which of these is a new model? Discuss.

 

Apart from a few minor visual differences and whatever happened underneath (if anything), they are similar.

 

That’s not the same thing at all.

 

And I don't...

 

Well, from a design and engineering perspective the 2020 is a clean-sheet design from the wheels up. The 2019 is a clone of the '18; maybe they changed the gearshift knob and used different colors in the MFD.

 

I remember the times people went to the garage with their 2018 M3 with a common fault and the mechanic said they can no longer repair it, even though it can be repaired, because the manufacturer insists all owners must purchase the 2019 model.

I'll get my coat...

 

Sure, keep telling yourself that, my man.

Don't you find it suspicious that the editor has been claimed to be impossible to release for the public (due to various reasons), yet they release it right after a community has started developing their own freeware editor? And coincidentally it just happens to need a new re-release? How convinient for the sales department!

 

I guess the 1st 2 models can no longer be refueled once the 3rd one was released.

 

You're really wearing a lot of tinfoil huh?

 

Others would call this common sense, but whatever floats your boat.

 

So if DTG surprises us all and updates TSW3 for real this time then will opinions change?

Just seeing as that seems to be the main complaint. And if they do would that make you want to buy TSW4?

 

I hope you are correct about the lack of stutters. I've read elsewhere that some have seen it just as bad as before. I would very much like to eat my words and jump back on if they have optimized their code, but even DTG themselves have admitted that performance is the same as TSW3 which puts me off. Granted maybe I would see things differently if I had an overpowered PC that could brute force smooth out this game, but alas, I am a lowly pleb for the time being.

 

You forgot to mention that you changed the locks on your car doors

 

I have a feeling they would instead state how the new features AND bug fixes could have just come to TSW3.