Enough Is Enough!!!

By Jove, I think he’s getting it.

 

Just so you know the creator of the editor mod mentioned on his website they took over one of the guys he worked with on the editor, so yeah, it is definitely the editor mod that pushed their hand.

Also, I am seriously interested in how the editor will work with their new yearly release schedule if it already can't take TSW3 content. Route builders will need to make the most of assets themselves, which will take a lot of time... will they work when TSW5 comes out? Or when perhaps they make a UE change? They're not here to support editor creation, they already had a horrible time rebaking their own content. So perhaps the community-created stuff will end up being impossible to finish or short-lived.

 

No. Delivering a single promise after failing 20 previous ones won't change my opinion of them right away.

But it would be a step in the right direction. And if TSW4 actually ends up good (good routes, good DLC for the new routes, etc) and they can actually keep their promises made in the TSW4 roadmap, then my opinion might change.

 

In a year it would be interesting to see sales figures for TSW"1", -2, -3, and -4.

 

how do you see sales numbers? is it public?

 

Unfortunately not and there's no parallel universe in which DTG release their sales figures. The best thing we have to go off are their account reports with Companies House (latest one) but bear in mind this includes sales from other games.

 

I don't think so, unless it were to come out in article form or something. You can see usage over time / player numbers on Steam DB; there TSW2 is the all-time leader in concurrent player numbers and other versions do not come close.

 

i guess it will be interesting to see how tsw4 does in the first month. especially with people saying they wont be buying it

 

"New yearly release schedule" is jumping the gun a bit, since that's only happened once, being this time.

The assets people create should be fine. It's the cooked content that has needed to be recooked for new TSW versions.

 

I don't like that they changed it from every 2 years to every year but I have preorderd the game to give it a fair chance but if im dissapointed with it im qutting TSW. I will be writing a review for a magazine tho and that will cover my costs for the game.

 

You cant take Steam data on it on, tsw2 was steam only up to Rush Hour then Epic gets thrown in the mix. That's before we even start with COVID lockdowns meaning people spent more time on games because they literally where under house arrest

 

There is a spike whenever a new game is first released; you can see that for other Steam games too. But something miraculous would have to happen for TSW4 to gain an all-time peak like TSW2 or even more so, TSC.

 

Good points; I am a PC Steam player so that's the data I was referring to, since Steam tracks player numbers. Do Epic and the consoles have sites that measure playership?

 

Well if you take into account that TSW2020 was released in August 2019 and pretty much four years later TSW4 is about to be released, that in my book averages one release per year.

 

yeah uhh, I think I get it, some people don't like this game
This definitely has not been said a million times, haha

 

TSW2020 was a free update to TSW anyway. TSW itself released in 2017, TSW2 in 2020, TSW3 in 2022, and now TSW4 in 2023.

 

so 3 years, then 2, then 1...Maybe TSW5 for christmas then, that will be the winter core update lol

 

Can't wait for tsw 10 to be released in a couple years

 

With this tendency we are not far away from TSW becoming a monthly subscription service, lol. Of course a monthly subscription AND the cost of paid DLCs.

And some people would still defend it and say it is justified and a good deal.

 

nobody would defend it if it was a monthly subscription, even people who defend tsw4 wont

 

I wish I could believe that, I really do.

For some people DTG can literally do no wrong and whatever they say is gospel. Amen. Thanks be to Matt.

 

Sadly, there are already plenty of videogames on the market that are full price, yet continue using free-to-play like sales tactics like paid skins and battle passes to get more money out of the customers. And people are buying them!

So with that in mind, I am pretty sure some people would still defend DTG after pulling a subscription service model. Never underestimate human stupidity.

 

As I said earlier, TSW4 isn’t the problem. I get why they do it, and get why they’ve always done this annual refresh. I don’t have an issue with them charging for the bundles that come with TSW4 in the way they do either. It all makes total sense.

However, I do have an issue (more on principle than anything else) with them locking additions and fixes for existing content behind a paywall, and forcing people to pay for something they may well not want if they wish to buy content going forward. We all know that in a few months they’ll be giving away the TSW4 core to anyone that will have it so why not just do that in the first place, to everyone’s benefit, just like they always did in the past? I bet it wouldn’t hit the sales of the big launch one bit, lots of happy customers and DTG looks good in everyone’s eyes. Had they done that there would have zero negativity and I’d bet more people would have plumped for the bundles to see what the new features were about.

With all of that said however, if the JT route is released at £29.99 and it comes with the TSW4 core thrown in at that price then I’ll happily eat my words. Given that one route costs the same as three routes plus the TSW4 core I don’t think that’s an unreasonable hope but history tells us it’s unlikely to happen.

 

So, in practical terms, TSW4 is the problem.

 

Surely it's bloody stupid to assume that most humans are that stupid, and also bloody stupid to think that you are so say one of the small minority of people that isn't stupid, therefore showing just how you are equally or possibly more stupid than than the rest of the mass of stupid humans you claim to be smarter than........



And before any body starts hurling being any sort of fanboy LOVE at me, it's simple, I don't care about DTG sales tactics, if I want the game I buy it.

 

I'm buying Tsw4 because I enjoy playing Tsw despite it's faults and I'm really looking forward to the new routes, Ecml especially, does that make me stupid?

 

Errrr.... Thursday, no wait Wednesday, no definitely Thursday!!

 

Ah yes, i feel ur pain man and i can see exactly where ur coming from, but dont worry, give dtg some time they will impress us,

 

Cool, go ahead, who is stopping you? As I have stated plenty of times by now, if you like what you are being offered, then buy it. Personally I disagree with your views, but noone is standing in your way.

 

Apparently, yes. Guess I'm also stupid then seeing as I play TSW as well.

 

You do realise you are basically calling everyone here stupid, right. It is downright insulting as most people are not stupid at all.

Perhaps you are for suggesting so.

 

The model does exist. Is it a good one? Its entirely down to perception

Final Fantasy XIV has the following cost structure:
Base game plus two previously buyable expansions available on permanently free trial (account restrictions apply for this but that's getting into the weeds)
AFAIK Base game plus all expansions up to the newest is a full price release across all platforms
Newest expansion is a full price release
A monthly sub is required to play any content from the latest two expansions of around £9 for one platform and the ability to log in with one character at a time from a pool of up to 32 creatable on that account
Additional simultaneous characters require another purchase of the entire game plus expansions plus the monthly sub
Optional DLC (cosmetics/mounts) cost a fortune; most account wide mounts are upwards of £20
When the next expansion comes out it will be a full priced release as well as the ongoing monthly sub
It has (had?) some 25 million players, though paying subscriber amounts are unknown

Very similar to your example and one that I hope never manifests

 

I don't think it will happen either, but possibly not for the reason you may be thinking - to my knowledge DTG have never published a "starter" pack with a third party route

They do of course however make new bundles with their own content; beyond the UK/US/DE routes at launch of TSW3, thay also did a standalone SOS with core/training centre, as well as Brum and some of the other US stuff. Certainly if they did a deal wiith JT to offer a POB standalone with TSW4 bundled it would be great for people not interested in the three core routes

 

One thing is for certain.

TSW 4 has divided opinion (in some cases) to the extreme.

 

Some people = everyone? Interesting logic you have there, my man.

Yeah, that usually happens when a publisher does not care about their customer base.

 

Many things happen irl that divide opinion, that doesn't mean they don't care.

We get it your not happy about Tsw4 but your literally beating a dead horse at this point.

 

A publishers job is to publish things and make money. They are not paid or is it part of their job decription to "care" about their customers.

Do book publishers care about their customers, do music publishers care about theirs. In fact music publishers generally don't even care for their clients.

Publishers only care about money. Just like EA, and 2K.

Oh and to say TSC is so much better look at this thread. So for this new route you need over £100 of other content plus join a supscription service for you to take full advantage of it. Sound similar.

https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/south-wales-mainline-modern-released.73055/#post-708813

 

You will note the distinction between a new game and a new piece of unofficial third-party content.

 

...though interestingly, a viewpoint that is decried by TSWs destractors is also in force there in a similar form - "no-one is forcing you to play it" and "just wait until the required assets are on sale"

 

Maybe you shouldn't be insinuating anyone is stupid?

There are some very condescending views on this thread. Those who don't want to buy TSW4, that's fine but to try and cause some kind of divide sitting in your ivory towers because you feel superior to us inferior people for falling for nasty DTG's marketing.

Well when we are enjoying TSW4, no doubt you will still be coming on here feeling all bitter with your little coterie.

 

We've all got our views. Beyond trying to explain them there's really no point in getting into an attempt to convince anyone of the relevance or otherwise of them.
Even less point in trying to point out how or why one view is better than another. It just causes emotional reactions.
Provide the seller some feedback by all means, but save your blood pressure for the real problems in life

 

Well, I mean so are you, because we are all pretty much repeating the same things over here. But I don't mind, sometimes new arguments still show up from both sides.

The fact that people have been arguing about TSW4 for weeks now shows what a stupid decision it was.

You are right, I do, but I don't see how that matters. Personally, nasty sales tactics barely work on me, and I don't understand those who fall for them. But as I have stated before, if you do and are happy with what is being presented to you, go ahead and buy it, noone is stopping you.

And no, I will be still around for for a while to see the post-release discussion about the game and read opinions, but I will probably disappear once things stop being interesting. Then maybe return later if something interesting pops up once again. As I usually do, periodically being active and inactive around here.

 

I never said I wasn't happy about Tsw4, I'm actually looking forward to it.

 

Really? That must be the most stupid thing I have read so far. People arguing about the game is exactly what DTG wants. This is what happens to all anticipated titles. People start discussing the pros and contra's of what is announced. It would have been a stupid decision if no one was talking about TSW4. From polls we have seen on the forum we have seen that the majority on the forum favours DTG's decision. That knowledge is fuelling the haters into being more vocal. Making this game sound way more important than it actually is. Exactly what DTG wants. Some blockbuster game drama preceding the launch of their new title.

Good job btw!

 

Maybe, maybe not.
Just as we think the summit is in sight...

 

I wonder when this discussion will end.

 

Don't get your hopes up. Don't look like it's going anywhere anytime soon.

 

I think the thread title sums up nicely what should happen to this thread now.

 

"Take on the busiest rail line in the US with the famed Northeast Corridor: Boston – Providence on Amtrak's ACS-64 ‘City Sprinter’ and MBTA's F40PH-3. Navigate the hectic Brighton Main Line: London Victoria – Brighton, with Southern's BR Class 377/4 and Gatwick Express BR Class 387. Master Regional, Express, S-Bahn or Inter-City Express services on Bahnstrecke Riesa – Dresden with locomotives like the iconic DB BR 442 'Talent 2'."

Hmm, all of this was new, yet it was still called "Train Sim World 2: Rush Hour"

Free roam isn't new, it just tweaks what can already be done in all TSW's
Photo mode isn't new, it just tweaks the external cameras from previous TSW's
All the 2.0 stuff is just an advanced beta of the 1.0 stuff from TSW3.
The editor as has already been pointed out is not part of the TSW core game.

When I patch over the holes in my favourite jeans it doesn't then make it new again...it just makes them more presentable.

 

Rush Hour just added 3 new routes and extra passengers that were not even present at the launch of Rush Hour. If someone had complained they called that one TSW3 they would sound less entitled than some people today comparing TSW4 to the Rush Hour bundle