Enough Is Enough!!!

In the interests of steering it somewhere maybe a little bit useful, I decided to try and figure out what the difference is between an update and an upgrade. There's lots of examples out there but this one was the simplest a brief search came up with.
https://www.parkersoftware.com/blog...een-a-software-upgrade-and-a-software-update/

I can predict where its going to go now but at least its a slightly more informed discussion (hopefully).

 

well the definition of update seems to work well with tsw4, 'building on your existing program' for improvements to scenario planner and livery designer and 'updates modify, fix, alter' to describe the minihud and bug fixes for older dlcs

 

Really? Even when people who admit to buying the game complain about their sales tactics and agree that it is wrong?

Forum polls also don't mean much, because most users who are active here are obviously here because they like what TSW currently offers. I do agree that I am part of a minority that has issues with the game, yet keep remaining active to provide feedback. But those who are done with the game or never even get into it, those will obviously not be here to vote on silly polls.

TSW is the laughing stock of the train simulator genre anywhere outside of these forums. If you or DTG can call that good job, well... that's an opinion too, I guess?

 

Thank for that helpful link! So by those definitions, TSW4 is a paid update, as TSW3 was a paid update; but both are marketed and sold as an upgrade.

 

I'm still trying to figure that out ;/

 

caveat emptor still applies as it did when the "new and improved" Roman chariot wheel was the old one repainted and with a couple of embellishments tacked to it.

 

So polis on a forum don't mean much but a few people moaning on the forum makes it a stupid decision? If it was a stupid decision we already would have seen a lot of damage control but the forums are not being flocked with discontent players but like you are suggesting only people applauding DTG"s decision.

 

Objective examples?

 

Well TSW can't be doing too bad if it is the laughing stock some on here want to believe it is probably from a few angry Facebook or Reddit posts, otherwise we wouldn't be at number 4!

Some are arrogant enough believe their opinions are somehow fact and that we are all little sheep unable to resist the charms of the big bad wolf!

I think some can't reconcile themselves to the fact that there are many people somehow enjoying TSW and I think seem to resent it for some reason!

 

To make a very very very long story short, some people don't like TSW4, some people do, the end.

 

The key thing is, it wasn't TSW 3. The new stuff (ie, the three routes) were a completely optional purchase and core updates were made available to everyone who owned TSW2....free of charge!
TSW4 is absolutely no different. It has arrived after 12 months, contains three new routes and updates/enhancements to core features...only this time around there's nothing optional about receiving those updates.

One other thing: This isn't about being "entitled", this is about people who spent hard earned money on TSW3, only to be told that everything that is wrong with their purchase is going to stay wrong unless they pay yet more money to have it put right. Do they not have every right to complain? Not only that, to further compound the issue, this time around DTG couldn't even be bothered waiting the obligatory 2 years before washing their hands of the previous instalment!

If you think that this is a fair and justifiable approach by DTG then that's perfectly fine - I'm happy that you're happy with what you receive, but I personally cannot condone their complete lack of any level of moral obligations towards their products.

 

As I already said before: People should do their research before they buy anything and don't assume anything upfront. If you think that the way DTG operates is unfair it means buying TSW was your stupid decision. Get over it and move on. Fall in love with another game that hopefully for you will not break its promises along the way. I heard there is a good game called TSC. Maybe look into that game?

 

Look up any regular train simulator group on facebook or reddit. Unless it is a TSW specific group, usually everyone laughs about DTG and their business practices.

 

And both parties don't know the released product yet. Nobody got their hands on it yet. The haters hate it because ......... errm..... and the lovers love it because .........ah yes.

So, not "The End". Happy beta-testing!

 

I think that we can probably put a list together of things that might need fixing or improving. I think we know why one might feel this way too, but that is ground already well trodden on.

 

With all due respects, don't *ever* call me stupid.

 

Yes, so, when I first bought TSW2 and, having resumed a saved game, after sitting there waiting for a red light to change for several minutes, then trying to contact the signal controller using the relevant key to no avail, not realising it was a botched core save game function that had been ignored since the first TSW over a period of several years until I researched it (after I'd bought the game) – that was somehow my "stupid" fault? Nothing at all to do with DTG?

Having researched it and joining the forums to voice my disbelief and dismay and frustration over this broken core function of the game, Matt took over as a producer and promised to give it attention and thus gave me some faith in DTG, despite what I'd read about them after finding this major fault. Okay, this is a new DTG under a new executive producer, it seemed. Great.

So I believed it when DTG promised they were slowing down to focus on bug fixes, to get the plethora of issues fixed, and I invested in more DLC content – only to then find out that was pretty much a lie, and TSW3 was coming, and fixes for existing content were going to be put behind a pay wall, including the save game fix that I desperately needed for TSW2... All that was somehow my "stupid" fault? Nothing at all to do with DTG?

All their bugs and potential fixes that may or may not happen being put behind pay walls ("Roll up, roll up, put your money in and take your chances!") are my stupid fault?

Going back to the save game issues, I mean, why on earth would I think for one minute that it wouldn't work without joining a forum to research it? Every game I've ever played, core features like that work, full stop. And if an advertised and fundamental function is that broken, it's usually proactively fixed via a patch within a short space of time, not years later after people start getting extremely vocal about it.

So, no, DTG's faults are not down to stupidity on my part or any other player's/simmer's.

 

Dovetail have never made any promises.....

 

Think before you post any disrespectful!.......

 

I can say the same to you. Clearly you don't know what disrespectful means

 

I know what disrespectful mean

 

If your going to type in bold then you should double check your grammer.

It pops mistakes out more when you don't.

 

The way I see it.
Let the complainers, complain. They have the right to voice their opinions.
Let the TSW4 pre-order customers enjoy the hype train and feel excited.

 

Your baked potatoes avatar looks delicious!

 

Can we also laugh in 11 days when the first crop of angry beta testers start posting their impressions of broken content?

 

Shouldn’t see why not. Freedom of speech exists for everyone. As long as it’s civil
There’s bound to be some bugs though.
As long as I can finish and enjoy a route with minimal interruptions I will be a happy man.

 

I don't mind the complaints at all it's a free society in most of the world.

I do see their point of view and agree it probably should have been a free upgrade with a pack of new routes you can pay for if you want and perhaps for the editor access.

And there is no reason to believe that list of updates they said were coming to TSW3 will really be coming and not just another ambition unless you buy TSW4.

But I still enjoy the game and being on console like 60% of players, I don't have access to other train simulators of this calbre. So yes if I want to play new DLC or want my older stuff to continue to get fixes here and there then I will gladly pay the small amount. $63.99CAD is cheaper than the yearly $89.99CAD EA, 2K ask for every year if I want new kits, rookies etc.

And cheaper than the yearly Farm Simulator game as well. Which might I add all of these games release and support for the old one drops. Oh and yes bugs still remain on the old ones which will never be fixed.

For me shady business practices seem to be the norm in the world today, from Airlines to Restaurants to Grocery Stores, to the Automotive Industry, and Oil and Gas too. There are alot worse than a simple video game publisher to be worried about.

So I guess that means oh well it is what it is and I'd rather worries about real life problems than 1st world ones.

I have preordered already.

 

I will second this.

 

Except they did? They made plenty of promises through the years , and broke many of them.

 

And after all those broken promises you still are here?

A little prediction: You will buy TSW4 and next year you will again complain about broken promises.

 

I think the choice of Unreal as an engine means everytime the engine is updated the whole game is updated. I believe, the problem is though is why choose a game engine that requires a whole new build every year.

 

Highly unlikely, especially with the current offers. The US route and the Austrian route looks interesting, but definitely not buying them until they get more rolling stock.

Maybe if Union Workshop releases their first (hopefully japanese) route finally, but considering their slower workpace and DTGs track record, we will be at TSW5 by then.

 

You will buy it because of the trailer with the watercolor-like graphics and the lilting sounds of Depeche Mode from 1981.

 

Indeed, he probably did not watch it yet. It was enough for me to preorder

 

Hey say what you like about DTG. But don't dare ever complain about Depeche Mode.

 

"Depeche Mode is French for 'We're wussies.'"
-Yeah, hehe.

Beavis and Butthead

(Big fan of both DM and B&B here, btw)

 

In this case they've been using the same version of Unreal Engine since TSW2. The newer routes just have different effects added to them to make it look different. The fact that they slap on a new menu and recompile the exe to create a paywall just gives the impression that they've released a brand new game. Some will fall for that trick, others will just know better.

 

Are people still pretending they will not buy TSW4? Is this still a thing?

 

I won't be unless they suddenly fix the performance issues on newer routes. Didn't buy TSW3 and any of its content so why buy TSW4?

 

Because of all of the new changes. It's almost like a new game




*** ducks ***

 

Oh, I'm sure I will. Some day. When/if DTG deliver on the stuff I'm still waiting for.

 

They will, but by then we will be at another re-release, most likely.

 

Yup. Holding off here too. Zero point in buying it as I already have it in the form of TSW3 Certainly in terms of content and features anyway..

 

Now that we are getting a PC editor, I don't see any reason why we should have to pay for the next iteration of TSW after TSW4, it should be a free core update similar to how TSC functions

 

And I'll have saved a LOT of money

 

You're missing fog. Go pre order now!

 

Not me. Going to be wearing my Thomas the tank engine pants on the 21st September (Launch day). Got to play TSW4 in style.

 

Please.... just don't. Or at least don't announce such embarrassment publicly. And on top of that Thomas the tank engine pants!?!

 

I’m not embarrassed. I will wear them with pride, like I’ve done for all major TSW game releases.
I got to show my appreciation somehow.