Now I'll admit the title is sort of clickbait but I just wanted to ask, is NTP (leeds-manchester,) still a good route for the price - recently after seeing JT's routes I've been craving to play a BR route, personally I prefer NTP to TVL as I think the rolling stock and route is more interesting. But I'm asking, does NTP As (With heavy pack because I'm getting that with the southeastern timetable bundle,) hold up today or no and much more importantly, is It worth it? Cheers.
Well worth it. NTP and the heavy freight pack are essential for anyone interested in br blue. Also desirable are TVL with the class 31 and class 20. My only wish is that all these locomotives layered on to each others routes. You may find the timetable a tad quiet but it's realistic for a secondary route. The end stations can feel empty with no Ai. Otherwise the stations are very atmospheric, grubby and run-down, the locomotives are some of the best we've seen with the peak being a particular joy to drive and the challenging gradients constantly up and down will keep you on your toes.
Only issue I have with NTP (and TVL) is that we didn’t get more, both in terms of route length and some more trains/stock. (Blue/grey Mark Ones anyone?). While likely to be usurped a bit by the forthcoming JT route, NTP is still unbeaten when it comes to BR Classic. And while BPO will be great, it doesn’t have the gradients and curvature of NTP.
Thank you for your words of advice! I'll most likely pick up TVL (and locos) on sale at some point because I am not the greatest fan of how short TVL is (not even the finished route) Very good if its constantly changing gradients. Thank you!
To be fair 60 miles (I think that's NTP) is bigger then most TSW3 routes. I do think BPO will be better then NTP but NTP is certainly geographically more interesting. Again thank you!
No it’s less than that, around 40 miles. However not begrudging what we did get, in fact with the route editor incoming think we may be in for a culture shock how much work might be involved doing a route half that size!
Indeed. A route with loads of stations but that's only 20 miles will be harder then a route with only a handful but is 70. I mean if you remember TSW2 BKL was the hardest route to make according to DTG because of how much detail there needed to be everywhere and the amount of close stations and whatnot.
Not much I can add that hasn’t been said already, but both are good and hold up. One thing in particular that always strikes me about both routes is their atmosphere. They feel truly lived in - greasy, oily, dark, and grimy. Everything feels past its glory days. The locos are worn and dirty, the stations run down or abandoned. Great stuff NTP (+heavy freight, which is a must) is the more challenging and longer route. TVL is especially interesting because of the legacy of Darlington and the heavy industry scenery. And both Classes 31 and 20 are excellent additions.
NTP is good and as others have said the timetable for the core route is realistic for the era. However, the Stations at each end are so quiet it's completely different to how it was back in the days decided, I used Manc Vic regularly in the 80s and it was the key station in Manchester for routes to the North, East, Liverpool and coastal destinations. Leeds again is extremely quiet and lacks the London, Harrogate, Calder Valley and Bradford/Skipton services to name but a few. Both stations had activity round the clock and Leeds has some stationary stock but Man Vic is left empty which was not the case. I wonder when DTG released it if it was performance or lack of knowledge of ops in the area or indeed dev time/testing that left it feeling a big empty. Hopefully with editor's this can be rectified so we can have something a bit more realistic. Also the freight to/from Healey Mills is not all in existence. A lot of traffic came over the Pennines via Calder Valley and Heaton Lodge then through Mirfield. Although that's just a short bit of line the time spent spotting at Mirlfield would be well rewarded. It's a route that fell foul of the BR blue doesn't sell policy combined with no editor's for years. Let's hope that it can be reinvigorated as its too good to be left as is.
To be fair I have gotten really bored of generic routes with electrics - they are WAY to easy to control, I could hijack a class 377 down the BML and drive it perfectly and I only have 50 or so hours on BML (albeit I've been playing it s bit recently testing out mods) So something challenging sounds really fun. Thanks!
To be fair - we will see how BPO sells, if it sells good I think we could see more BR coming soon. But luckily the route (and heavy freight) is good as you state so I think its good. Thanks!
I'd say NTP is 7,5 - 8 out of 10 TVL is 8 - 8,5, I enjoy it more because it has more variety in services. But both are good
NTP is still my favourite route, most played route and although it will almost certainly be pushed down to third by ECML and BPO it will take me a long time for it to not be the route with most miles covered. I think I worked out that about about 30% of the miles I have driven in game have been on NTP which when you think that I have about 15 other routes is A LOT. Highly recommend it. Also the Peaks are my favourite diesels so that helps me liking it too but all the rolling stock is made to a good quality and sounds brilliant. NTP is and absolute gem.
Would have to disagree there. TVL is largely flat and industrial in nature. NTP has you winding through the hills almost as soon as you clear Miles Platting. In certain lighting conditions the hills and moors look sublime.
NTP is certainly a diamond. I have recently done a couple of runs in the 47 and 45 and have to say it still holds well. The Heavy Freight Pack is a must for the full experience. The only thing that it lacks is more AI, this would make the route feel more alive.
TVL and NTP are extremely underrated imo. TVL had an accurate recreation especially according to some recent irl videos of how the route was in 1989. They Pretty much nailed it. Except that 37 Model. NTP and BR Heavy Freight, was also good. However looking back at it now, not having Manchester Piccadilly as well included was kinda let down. Either way tho I think NTP and TVL do 100% Absolutely deserve more. I still know a modern timetable for Both are highly requested
It's a good route but (like many) could do with a timetable review. There is more rolling stock that can fit (mostly from TVL), plus more to come. The service pattern on the main route could be denser, and it needs more AI at the busy stations like Manchester, Huddersfield and Leeds. I think the route came out before it was the norm to have AI that appeared solely at stations and branched off, like you see at e.g. Dresden now.
The thing about the timetable is given that's going to be available to make full timetables I wouldn't be surprised if someone makes a reviewed NTP timetable using records and whatnot.
The signalling on NTP is a bit wonky and that’s why the timetable is so light and adding lots of trains in scenario planner shows up the signalling limitations but as the route is presented this doesn’t affect many services (just remember to check the entrance signal to the long tunnel on the map before bombing along at full pelt into a SPAD after a clear distant signal). It’s one of my most played routes and all the trains are top notch. The route has a great feel with real atmosphere and is a classic up the hill and down the hill experience. It’s a tricky route in the Class 101 but a more rewarding experience is seldom had than getting it right on a downhill stop in that thing. The Heavy Freight pack is essential and adds variety. I was happily lugging some tankers behind a Class 40 yesterday and having the time of my life despite doing it so often since I first got TSW2020 four years ago. It’s my happy route.
Everybody seems to be prasing the heavy freight pack. Has DTG fixed the bug when there's a freight train stopped at Huddersfield station, but it is position so that the nose of the loco is behind the red signal, therefore the games marks the next block as occupied and so your express train from Manchester to Leeds gets stuck in Huddersfield?
It's still one of my favourite routes, plenty of traction, the game spawning different locos so you get something different each time. The only downside for me is still the lack of passengers on trains and bigger stations, but aside from that I love the route.
I can't remember from the top of my head, but this service is part of journey. I remember I had to uninstall the heavy freight pack in order to be able to complete this service.
NTP is definitely a diamond for me, but alas like many routes it’s a bit underexploited. Ideally a scenery refresh, ToD4, decent timetable, plus a class 25 DLC would go down a treat. Unlike TVL it has fast and semi-fast loco-hauled services which is much appreciated.
For me personally it's better than the routes released during TSW2 time and at least the core routes of TSW3 (I can't really comment comparing to TSW3 DLC routes released after TSW3, as I have only 2 of them).
I think NTP isn´t overrated at all. On the contrary it is underrated, call it a diamond if you like. I´ve bought the route centuries ago because the german routes lack of that old diesel iron. And I play the route until today with great pleasure. Sounds are near perfect. And my relationship with the Class 101 went from hate to deep love. That DMU is something special. I don´t think you´ll regret having this route. OBS: Heavy Freight pack mentioned several times already. A MUST!
Manchester Piccadilly had nothing to do with NTP traffic in the time decipted. Manchester Victoria was the only Manchester main station in that era with trains to Leeds. I remember in 1989 when the Liverpool to Newcastle trains started going via the Cheshire Lines and Piccadilly which was around when the Windsor link was put in and serious amounts of trains started going the Oxford Road to Piccadilly bottleneck not to mention crossing the terminus platforms over to the Guide Bridge line causing much performance problems.
Yeah - I've never been the biggest fan of 101's but chances are I'd end up falling in love with them by the time ive played NTP enough. Thanks.
It’s a diamond route for me, one I go back to quite regularly. it’s also a bit of a mystery as it’s clearly rated high and one of only 2 current Br routes yet they come back as stated basically by DTG as unpopular… both NTP and TVL have always came across to me as the opposite of unpopular, and despite being only 2, they have introduced quite a chunk of appropriate stock, probably second only to Modern German DB
Know that this is technically necroposting but wanted to give closure here. I decided to grab NTP (along with the southeastern enchancement pack and the other piece from the Best of Britan DLC bundle as despite negative reviews I'm actually quiet interested in it). So thanks everyone! I haven't been able to get loads of play in as I've been busy recently but thought I'd use the bundles while I still can for TSW3. Thanks everyone!
To be fair there are many places which necroposting is over 3 days so I doubt it's that big of a presumption
NTP is a great route and definitely underrated. It has 3 great locos and the 08 to drive (if you have HF pack) and is set during the demise of BR so everything looks like it should, grubby and littered and run down. I may be slightly biased though as NTP is one of my local lines (the others being ECML branch to Leeds and also the Normanton/Castleford line), even though I didn't experience the line during the set time period (I didn't live near it until the mid 90s).
Idk if it's possible but NTP would benefit from a new timetable, it's definitely one of my favourite routes, the atmosphere and the run-down industrial feel makes it feel alive. NTP is a good example of what I felt Glossop line should've felt like. If it wasn't for the knowledge I already had of the route I probably would've thought it was younger.
Funny enough, DTG manages to introduce a major improvement with the 24h timetable, and wont release a single timetable as payware even after 5 years. i would be happy to spend a few bucks to get an improved version. They could include the class 20 & 31, as a gimmick the br blue version as part of the "timetable dlc". But i guess they are stuck in a huge tunnel view and just follow a-b without seeing new possibilities. Careful with releases after January, if the cycle repeates we will have the usual quality drop like nyt because they have to focus on development for TSW6 in about 1 year. Well its about time the community takes over with the new features of tsw4.
I do think DTG misses a lot of opportunities by not revisiting older content, NTP could have scenarios and journeys using TVL trains and vice versa, which would encourage anyone who only owns one of the routes to purhcase the other, and West Somerset Railway is screaming out for a steam trains DLC.
